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mrsman

New Transfers you'd like to see

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In the news, Transit is working on a (3)(L) transfer at Junius as well as a transfer between Times Square and the (B)(D)(F)(M) .

What other transfers would you like to see being implemented?

I would like to see full (within fare control) transfers from 63/Lex to 59/Lex, as well as a transfer from Queens Plaza to Queensboro Plaza.  I believe that one or both of those would make it more palatable to deinterline Broadway and Queens Blvd.

 

To the extent that there are walking out of system transfers, I wish that they would be true transfers that keep the free bus transfer.  Currently, if one starts at a station on the Lexington line, walks out at 59th and reenters at 63rd to take (F) to Queens, one would have to pay again to transfer to a bus.  This shouldn't be.  The walking transfer should preserve the free transfers that you would have had if you used a system transfer like 53/Lex for the (E)(M)  or transferred to the (R) at 59th.

 

As a side note, does anyone know why Times Square and the (B)(D)(F)(M) are being connected by transfer?  Supposedly it's to make it easier to connect between 6th Ave and 7th Ave trains, but given that some of the transfers can be made at 14th and at Columbus Circle, I don't understand why this is receiving the priority from transit when there seems to be more important transfers that they are not funding?

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Prince St.-Bway-Lafayete would make sense, because they're close, and Bway-Laf already has a western mezzanine directly under Bway, with stairs to the platform that is currently used for something else.

The Bryant Park passage was promised to the tenants of 1 Bryant Park (the new Bank of America tower whose sidewalk vault the passage is in), so they would have connections to both Times Sq. and the 6th Ave. line. 

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Some transfers I’d like to see:

Lexington 63rd/59th Transfer ((F)(N)(Q)(R)(W)(4)(5)(6))

Queens Plaza/Queensboro Plaza. (7)(E)(M)(N)(R)(W) (I think this one would be a bit more difficult)

Prince Street-Broadway-Lafayette (B)(D)(F)(M)(R)(W) 

Union Avenue-Broadway (new station complex) (G)(J)(M) 

Bowery-Grand Street (B)(D)(J)(Z) 

Those are some transfers that I’d like to see.

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4 hours ago, Eric B said:

Prince St.-Bway-Lafayete would make sense, because they're close, and Bway-Laf already has a western mezzanine directly under Bway, with stairs to the platform that is currently used for something else.

The Bryant Park passage was promised to the tenants of 1 Bryant Park (the new Bank of America tower whose sidewalk vault the passage is in), so they would have connections to both Times Sq. and the 6th Ave. line. 

The articles aren't very clear, but I assume the connection will be within fare control, right?

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57 St/7 Av (at 55 St) to 7 Av/53 St.

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8 hours ago, mrsman said:

The articles aren't very clear, but I assume the connection will be within fare control, right?

Yes, you can see where the passageway will come out on the 6th Ave side next to the exit with the elevator, and the TSQ side will lead into the new middle platform.

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Cortlandt Street and Fulton Street...........

 

Why isn't this a transfer already?

Edited by NBTA

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14 minutes ago, NBTA said:

Cortlandt Street and Fulton Street...........

 

Why isn't this a transfer already?

The Dey Street Passageway connects the entire Fulton complex with the Cortlandt Street station and also, the World Trade Center Oculus. However, the transfer is not within fare control because the (MTA) believes that putting it outside fare control would maximize pedestrian flow.

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7 Av-53 St to Bway-50 St (B)(D)(E)(1)

Bway-59 St to 7 Av-57 St and 6 Av-57 St (A)(B)(C)(D)(F)(1)(N)(Q)(R)(W)

Grand to Bowery (B)(D)(J)(Z)

Brooklyn Bridge IRT to City Hall BMT (4)(5)(6)(J)(Z)(R)(W)

City Hall BMT to Chambers St IND and IRT (R)(W)(1)(2)(3)(A)(C)(E)

21 St-Queensbridge to QB plaza and Queens Plaza (E)(F)(M)(N)(W)(R)(7)

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On 1/21/2020 at 6:13 AM, mrsman said:

Transit is working on a (3)(L) transfer at Junius

That transfer has always been a no-brainer. It was always about money.

On 1/21/2020 at 9:53 AM, Eric B said:

Prince St.-Bway-Lafayete would make sense, because they're close, and Bway-Laf already has a western mezzanine directly under Bway, with stairs to the platform that is currently used for something else.

This is another obvious option. Though there are many transfer points, they all require going uptown or all the way to Brooklyn. If you’re not already going through uptown or coming from Brooklyn, it’s a minor pain point for crosstown travel or escaping a really bad service situation along one of the trunk lines.

On 1/21/2020 at 4:20 PM, P3F said:

57 St/7 Av (at 55 St) to 7 Av/53 St.

This would help with frequent reroutes and outages along the Queens-Manhattan tunnels as well as enable transfer flexibility for those who know how to take advantage of it.

I realize this may be a niche use, but I have the occasional commute between Coney Island and Flushing and usually take the one of the Queens Boulevard expresses when the <7> is unavailable. If on the (F), I gun for the (Q) at Lexington Avenue–63 Street or the (B) at 47–50 Streets–Rockefeller Center. If on the (E), I gun for the (B)(D) at 7 Avenue. As the (B)(D) are less frequent services and sometimes also delayed, I often miss both train in a row and end up deciding to go above ground to make a dash for the (N)(Q). Why don’t I just take the (7) to Queensboro Plaza or Times Square–42 Street? The (E) and (F) almost always get to Manhattan first and some good transfers to express trains will let me pile on additional time savings on top of that.

On 1/21/2020 at 10:12 AM, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Lexington 63rd/59th Transfer ((F)(N)(Q)(R)(W)(4)(5)(6))

For the (Q), until the 125 Street extension is realized, the transfer would be the first available and best opportunity for commuters exclusively going up or down the east side. Currently, the only choice is going crosstown between 6/7 Avenue and 2 Avenue or climbing the numerous stairs to make the out-of-system transfer. God help you if the escalators are down.

I also didn’t believe it at first, but there is a lot of Bronx-Queens travel. For whatever reasons, a lot of kids don’t go to schools in their own boroughs. Having just the (F) connect to the (4)(5) would slash another transfer/walk from the commute. It would also be the only transfer between the (F) and (4)(5).

On 1/21/2020 at 10:12 AM, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Bowery-Grand Street (B)(D)(J)(Z)

This would be most useful to connect 6 Avenue express service with Jamaica service without involving the (M)iddleman. The (M) also doesn’t even always run past Delancey Street–Essex Street.

On 1/21/2020 at 3:53 PM, SimplyMyself said:

I wouldn’t mind seeing a transfer between Columbus Circle-59 St (A)(B)(C)(D)(1) and 57 St-7 Ave (N)(Q)(R)(W). That would make going crosstown a lot easier.

I can’t imagine this would be much better than Times Square–42 Street. The connection would be 1 avenue and 2 streets apart which is quite a distance to walk.

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This isn't technically a transfer, but an underpass at 50th (C)(E) between the two platforms would make getting to the UWS from Queens a lot easier (specifically on weekends without the (B) running). Right now if you are coming from the (N)(R)(W) you have to transfer at Times Square, from the (F) you need to transfer at Rockefeller and then again at 59th, and from the (E) you have to walk at least two blocks through the 42nd-8th mezzanine. By simply building an underpass (and having an elevator as well) you can save people a lot of walking and up to 10 mins (given that by the time you get to the uptown platform you could have just missed a train).

 

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24 minutes ago, CenSin said:

This would be most useful to connect 6 Avenue express service with Jamaica service without involving the (M)iddleman. The (M) also doesn’t even always run past Delancey Street–Essex Street.

Never understood why Transit didn't pay a little extra and run the (M) to either Chambers or Broad on the weekend...

(sorry for double-posting, couldn't quote this in my other post)

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13 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

The Dey Street Passageway connects the entire Fulton complex with the Cortlandt Street station and also, the World Trade Center Oculus. However, the transfer is not within fare control because the (MTA) believes that putting it outside fare control would maximize pedestrian flow.

As part of the Fulton project the original plan had a passageway double the width divided between paid and unpaid areas. It probably would've looked similar to the passageway that connects 51st and Lex-53rd.

55 minutes ago, CenSin said:

I can’t imagine this would be much better than Times Square–42 Street. The connection would be 1 avenue and 2 streets apart which is quite a distance to walk.

The southern exit of Columbus Circle is at 57th St. If you were to, say, I don't know, dump thousands of jobs into LIC this would be a pretty nifty connection.

Surprised no one has mentioned Fulton (G) and Atlantic-Barclays, or the two Hoyt Sts. 

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58 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

As part of the Fulton project the original plan had a passageway double the width divided between paid and unpaid areas. It probably would've looked similar to the passageway that connects 51st and Lex-53rd.

The Dey St Passageway half within fare control has mostly been duplicated by the WTC (E) - Cortlandt  (R)(W) connector, which gives the (R)(W) connection to the (A)(C)(E)(2)(3) (just not the (4)(5)(J)(Z) ).

58 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Surprised no one has mentioned Fulton (G) and Atlantic-Barclays, or the two Hoyt Sts. 

The two Hoyt Sts are not oriented conveniently for a transfer - and the (2)(3)  station doesn't even have an underpass. It would make more sense to connect Jay St MetroTech  (A)(C)(F)(R) to Hoyt St (2)(3), the distance is shorter. If you're doing that, it would probably be more convenient to build the connection to Boro Hall, not Hoyt St, but the stacked (2)(3) platforms make it very hard to build a connection from that station - it would have to be at the height of the (4)(5) overpass to get over the northbound tracks and then lower to the (A)(C)(F) mezzanine level down Fulton or Willoughby. Might be able to do an ADA ramp for the whole way instead of needing an elevator.

 

I've wondered if the incline of the Dey St Passageway would have raised ADA concerns had it been in-system. This would also have been the first in-system connection between two platforms of the same line (the (2)(3) and (A)(C) from Park Pl / Chambers St to Fulton St). My above-proposed Boro Hall connection would also connect two (R) stations. We should get our first in-system transfer between a line and itself when Times Square and 5 Av (7) are connected.

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59 minutes ago, andreww said:

The two Hoyt Sts are not oriented conveniently for a transfer - and the (2)(3)  station doesn't even have an underpass. It would make more sense to connect Jay St MetroTech  (A)(C)(F)(R) to Hoyt St (2)(3), the distance is shorter. If you're doing that, it would probably be more convenient to build the connection to Boro Hall, not Hoyt St, but the stacked (2)(3) platforms make it very hard to build a connection from that station - it would have to be at the height of the (4)(5) overpass to get over the northbound tracks and then lower to the (A)(C)(F) mezzanine level down Fulton or Willoughby. Might be able to do an ADA ramp for the whole way instead of needing an elevator.

The (A)(C) platforms at Jay St - Metrotech are not closer to the (2)(3) at Hoyt. It's closer to the (R) , but the  (R) already has a connection at Atlantic. The only way the (A)(C) is closer at Hoyt is if you consider it feasible to build a passageway alongside the subway at Fulton Street, which it is not.

 

1 hour ago, andreww said:

I've wondered if the incline of the Dey St Passageway would have raised ADA concerns had it been in-system.

1. Given that it was a part of the original Fulton Center plans, it would be pretty indefensible to have an ADA-inaccessible building.

2. All new construction must comply with the ADA. In system or not in system, the Dey St passageway is a newly constructed structure and must comply with ADA.

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Sorry, why is it infeasible to build a passageway along Fulton Street? It is already wide enough for the station platforms - just extend the Manhattan-bound platform with a railing between the platform and tracks. Surely expanding an existing tunnel would be a considerably lower expense than digging a tunnel under Hoyt St, which currently has no tunnels under it.

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15 hours ago, andreww said:

Sorry, why is it infeasible to build a passageway along Fulton Street? It is already wide enough for the station platforms - just extend the Manhattan-bound platform with a railing between the platform and tracks. Surely expanding an existing tunnel would be a considerably lower expense than digging a tunnel under Hoyt St, which currently has no tunnels under it.

No, modifying an existing structure underground is definitely more expensive than building a brand new one. Not to mention that you probably couldn't have an area next to the tracks under construction while trains are simultaneously running there.

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On 1/22/2020 at 10:31 PM, bobtehpanda said:

 

Surprised no one has mentioned Fulton (G) and Atlantic-Barclays, or the two Hoyt Sts. 

I would like to see better connection for (G) in Downtown Brooklyn, but given what others have said, they are probably infeasible.

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