Brooklyn Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

With the redesign, I hope they fix the issues they created with the routes when the budget cuts happened and they merged everything with everything. Specifically with the B61, it's worse then it was prior to 2010. Now it's a combination of the B61, B77 and B71.

Merges happen to SAVE MONEY. The redesigns are about SAVING MONEY... Good luck with your wish... lol

[Lawrence St]

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Merges happen to SAVE MONEY. The redesigns are about SAVING MONEY... Good luck with your wish... lol

Some redesign plans are good then others. The Bx6SBS Reroute was a great way to save money and have better connectivity.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, Lawrence St said:

Some redesign plans are good then others. The Bx6SBS Reroute was a great way to save money and have better connectivity.

The only way the redesigns will work is if the public is on the  start to finish, otherwise they will take advantage.  Now to the public they will say that they want the public involved, which is true to some extent, but don't think for a second that they don't have a vision of what they want to see in terms of changes because they do, from routing to service levels.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

11 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Some redesign plans are good then others. The Bx6SBS Reroute was a great way to save money and have better connectivity.

Yeah, but keep in mind the end goal was saving money. There might be cases where it may actually improve conditions, but that's more of an exception than a rule. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

14 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Yeah, but keep in mind the end goal was saving money. There might be cases where it may actually improve conditions, but that's more of an exception than a rule. 

The Bronx redesign for local bus service... If communities around the borough weren't as outspoken as they were, there would've been major service cuts. Just the reality of the situation.  

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

With the redesign, I hope they fix the issues they created with the routes when the budget cuts happened and they merged everything with everything. Specifically with the B61, it's worse then it was prior to 2010. Now it's a combination of the B61, B77 and B71.

B71 was the Union st. bus..... Today's B61 is a combination of (the Downtown Brooklyn - Red Hook Ikea rendition of the B61), (the B77), and (the B75).

[FLX9304]

On 1/31/2020 at 10:44 PM, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

What if they somehow defy your requirements and propose something that you like? Will you complain that they're depriving you of things to complain about?

That happens all the time. You can’t have things your way unless you sacrifice a route that you don’t see fit. Didn’t the 2010 budget cuts taught people a lesson on how to do this and that? One community loses a bus and you have thousands lining up at 2 Broadway to defy what you propose. I’m still waiting for the Bronx reDesign to take an effect but this virus is killing off everything except vehicle orders. I would change the boro prefix to “K” for implementation. 

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, FLX9304 said:

That happens all the time. You can’t have things your way unless you sacrifice a route that you don’t see fit. Didn’t the 2010 budget cuts taught people a lesson on how to do this and that? One community loses a bus and you have thousands lining up at 2 Broadway to defy what you propose. I’m still waiting for the Bronx reDesign to take an effect but this virus is killing off everything except vehicle orders. I would change the boro prefix to “K” for implementation. 

I have a feeling that they're going to scrap the Bronx redesign and do it again from scratch.

[FLX9304]

5 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I have a feeling that they're going to scrap the Bronx redesign and do it again from scratch.

If the community opposed some routes, than they got no choice. The paper is on its way to the garbage

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I have a feeling that they're going to scrap the Bronx redesign and do it again from scratch.

If you're talking about the local bus redesign, most of the opposition they dealt with they agreed to keep routes the way they were. The local bus in Country Club is an example. That proposal was shut down very quickly by activists there who I know. Ultimately the Bronx local buses would see increased frequencies on most routes, which is a good thing.  The express bus redesign would definitely be re-done if they were to decide to work on it again.  They are well aware of the opposition to that plan, as they not only got feedback from my group, but also got an earful from people in the group that wrote and called elected officials and also attended an emergency Town Hall Meeting.

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

If you're talking about the local bus redesign, most of the opposition they dealt with they agreed to keep routes the way they were. The local bus in Country Club is an example. That proposal was shut down very quickly by activists there who I know. Ultimately the Bronx local buses would see increased frequencies on most routes, which is a good thing.  The express bus redesign would definitely be re-done if they were to decide to work on it again.  They are well aware of the opposition to that plan, as they not only got feedback from my group, but also got an earful from people in the group that wrote and called elected officials and also attended an emergency Town Hall Meeting.

I was referring to the finalized plan, such as the Bx6 +SBS+ to Pelham Bay Park.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I was referring to the finalized plan, such as the Bx6 +SBS+ to Pelham Bay Park.

Don't see why they would scrap it. I spoke with the chick (Jessica Cignarella) that worked on the Bronx Redesign. The plan was to keep 70% of the routes as is and make roughly 30% changes. They don't have an endless money source to keep doing redesigns over and over, so scrapping this one would make no sense.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Lex]

59 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I was referring to the finalized plan, such as the Bx6 +SBS+ to Pelham Bay Park.

That proposal was to end the Bx6 SBS where the Bx5 currently short-turns.

[Future ENY OP]

I just have a question. For the last 3 responses I’ve read is all about The Bronx re-design. Would it be best to discuss in The Bronx thread.  None of this has anything to do with Brooklyn. 

[Lawrence St]

27 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

I just have a question. For the last 3 responses I’ve read is all about The Bronx re-design. Would it be best to discuss in The Bronx thread.  None of this has anything to do with Brooklyn. 

Not to be rude, but those responses were in reference to the entire redesign plan. If the Bronx is getting redone, that means all the data they collected for all 3 boroughs so far has to be redone and started from scratch, including Brooklyn.

From what I hear, the Brooklyn redesign draft plan was halfway done before COVID shut everything done.

[Future ENY OP]

53 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Not to be rude, but those responses were in reference to the entire redesign plan. If the Bronx is getting redone, that means all the data they collected for all 3 boroughs so far has to be redone and started from scratch, including Brooklyn.

From what I hear, the Brooklyn redesign draft plan was halfway done before COVID shut everything done.

Thanks for the clarification.  Just that it was only weird to me that this was discussed on the thread. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Not to be rude, but those responses were in reference to the entire redesign plan. If the Bronx is getting redone, that means all the data they collected for all 3 boroughs so far has to be redone and started from scratch, including Brooklyn.

From what I hear, the Brooklyn redesign draft plan was halfway done before COVID shut everything done.

But what does the Bronx have to do with Brooklyn? The redesigns are in totally different stages. I have heard that they are looking to resume the Brooklyn Redesign and I heard this recently. In contrast, I have heard no such plans for the Bronx (local or express).

9 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Thanks for the clarification.  Just that it was only weird to me that this was discussed on the thread. 

See above.

[Iron Valiant]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Not to be rude, but those responses were in reference to the entire redesign plan. If the Bronx is getting redone, that means all the data they collected for all 3 boroughs so far has to be redone and started from scratch, including Brooklyn.

From what I hear, the Brooklyn redesign draft plan was halfway done before COVID shut everything done.

The responses have nothing to do with Brooklyn at all lmao. Bronx and Brooklyn are two separate boroughs and what's planned for the Bronx has nothing to do with Brooklyn. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, Snorunts said:

The responses have nothing to do with Brooklyn at all lmao. Bronx and Brooklyn are two separate boroughs and what's planned for the Bronx has nothing to do with Brooklyn. 

Something else to note is that the Bronx actually had a redesign not too long ago, so it isn't like it needed to have all of the lines blown up. Brooklyn on the other hand is a totally different animal.

[B35 via Church]

On 8/12/2021 at 10:27 PM, Lawrence St said:

Not to be rude, but those responses were in reference to the entire redesign plan. If the Bronx is getting redone, that means all the data they collected for all 3 boroughs so far has to be redone and started from scratch, including Brooklyn.

From what I hear, the Brooklyn redesign draft plan was halfway done before COVID shut everything done.

The notion that there's some domino effect between the separate boroughs' plans is simply not true & how you even derived by such a conclusion leaves much to be desired....

Furthermore, you seriously think faulty data is going to keep the MTA from going through with a plan they've concocted?? Have you even been paying attention to the antics & decisions of this agency in the past decade.. or two... or three....

If they do go on to redo any or all of these separate borough redesigns thus far, faulty data most certainly won't be a reason...

On 8/12/2021 at 11:32 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

But what does the Bronx have to do with Brooklyn? The redesigns are in totally different stages. I have heard that they are looking to resume the Brooklyn Redesign and I heard this recently. In contrast, I have heard no such plans for the Bronx (local or express).

On 8/12/2021 at 11:52 PM, Snorunts said:

The responses have nothing to do with Brooklyn at all lmao. Bronx and Brooklyn are two separate boroughs and what's planned for the Bronx has nothing to do with Brooklyn. 

Guess if I have a diabetic, gangrenous left foot, guess that means the doc's gonna have to decapitate me too.... I mean, give me a break.

To be somewhat fair I guess, one would think from a general planning vantage point & from a surface transit enthusiast standpoint that this would be all one interconnected / encompassing plan, but the fact of the matter is that it's not.... Otherwise, it would be done in one shot - all 5 boroughs.... Obviously these plans are all under the MTA umbrella, but that still doesn't mean that if they pull the plug on & eventually revisit one borough's plan, anything involving redesigning any (of the other) boroughs' bus networks will undergo the same fate.... If that's the logic he's using to surmise at that conclusion, well, it's just not the case.

[bobtehpanda]

The nice thing about NYC being a city of islands is that the bus networks of the boroughs are more or less separate and can be redesigned without f**king up the others too much.

However, that's not true for Brooklyn/Queens, and sometimes I wonder whether or not the county lines were the most appropriate boundaries for redesign; if it were me I'd do north of Queens Blvd, south of Broadway (Brooklyn), and everything in between as a redesign each.

[Future ENY OP]

I did a little research the other day on a old Brooklyn Bus map from the 1970's and there are some interesting factors that I saw

B65: Red Hook to Crown Heights... When did this get reduced to the current- Smith/Fulton stop?

B21: KCC to Knapp Street (Sheepshead Bay loop). In today's standards this route would need to be extended to Midwood via Ocean to help the B49. (possibly)

B84: Canarsie- Rockaway Parkway to East New York- Ashford Street-Wortman Ave. Today's B84 doesn't even go to Canarsie. However, this needs to be talked about more with regards to the real estate that's growing in this area of Spring Creek-East NY & Canarsie.

B34: Bay Ridge- Shore Road & 71 Street to 25th Ave via 86th Street (Ulmer Park Depot)  Today's 86th street needs additional coverage. The current B1 service doesn't cut it.

B33: Red Hook to Lincoln Road-Prospect Park .  For today's standards this route won't be attractive b/c Red Hook commuters are not looking to go into Flatbush- Lefferts Gardens.

---------------------------------------------------

But on a personal note: To address the Red Hook issue: Reinstate the B75 and B77 to help out the B57 and B61

As for Park Slope: 8th Avenue, Prospect Park West, Union Street all need bus service. The current B67 and B69 services on 7th Avenue don't cut it.  Although, Union Street is very narrow it was a good through-fare for many years in Park Slope bus service.

65th Street needs bus coverage badly.

Thoughts?

[Gotham Bus Co.]

2 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

I did a little research the other day on a old Brooklyn Bus map from the 1970's and there are some interesting factors that I saw

B65: Red Hook to Crown Heights... When did this get reduced to the current- Smith/Fulton stop?

B33: Red Hook to Lincoln Road-Prospect Park .  For today's standards this route won't be attractive b/c Red Hook commuters are not looking to go into Flatbush- Lefferts Gardens.

 

Both B33 and B65 originally served a ferry terminal in Red Hook, and they kept going there into the 1990s, long after the ferry stopped running. B33 became useless and died on the vine. B65 was rerouted to Smith/Fulton to keep it useful.

[Future ENY OP]

3 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Both B33 and B65 originally served a ferry terminal in Red Hook, and they kept going there into the 1990s, long after the ferry stopped running. B33 became useless and died on the vine. B65 was rerouted to Smith/Fulton to keep it useful.

Also, I believe the B25 and B41 also served a ferry terminal way back in the day. Remind me if I'm correct on this..

[BrooklynBus]

4 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Also, I believe the B25 and B41 also served a ferry terminal way back in the day. Remind me if I'm correct on this..

The B41 never served the ferry terminal. It always terminated at Civic Center and was extended to the waterfront briefly in the 90's I believe long after the ferry was discontinued.