Jump to content
Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.

Brooklyn Bus Redesign Discussion Thread


Cait Sith
 Share

Recommended Posts

On 8/28/2021 at 11:39 PM, Trainmaster5 said:

Take a look at the subway forums sometimes. The argument there is about deinterlining vs the present service delivery idea. In other words running more trains along a particular line without realizing that they are forcing riders to transfer to another train or bus which we were taught increases a riders commute. All transfers are a delay by definition where I come from even the necessary ones. My opinion. Carry on.

Yes, this is something that has needed to be said (and for the longest time, too).  Transfers are a delay; all the talk about them being shortened under deinterlining is just a theory- experience tells me that it would be otherwise.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 470
  • Created
  • Last Reply
3 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Yes, this is something that has needed to be said (and for the longest time, too).  Transfers are a delay; all the talk about them being shortened under deinterlining is just a theory- experience tells me that it would be otherwise.  

Yeah, the whole deinterline the subway bit is just as annoying to me as the whole, discontinue bus routes that parallel subway lines bit... I can't rock with either sentiment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, the whole deinterline the subway bit is just as annoying to me as the whole, discontinue bus routes that parallel subway lines bit... I can't rock with either sentiment.

May I ask why your against discontinuing any bus route that parallels the subway? I could understand if a specific corridor of the subway isn't ADA accessible, but what else would there be? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

May I ask why your against discontinuing any bus route that parallels the subway? I could understand if a specific corridor of the subway isn't ADA accessible, but what else would there be? 

Sure, no problem.

ADA accessibility aside, buses are generally used for short(er) distance trips.... Buses also typically/have the capability to serve more stops along a given corridor, compared to whatever subway line it may happen to parallel.... As an aside, I personally don't subscribe to the mindset that buses solely exist to transport riders to subways (not implicating that you do, but there are people that believe that)... As if to say, what's the point of a bus running along a subway line, when the subway line is *right there*.....

In laymens, it's a matter of coverage.... This express-a-holic mindset a lot of NY-ers have IMO is way overblown... People want express train service and/or SBS/LTD service to anywhere they need to get to (which I find ironic, but that's besides the point)..... With this notion of discontinuing bus routes that parallel subways, you're potentially forcing more people to have to walk to the subway - and also, do more walking from whatever subway station they got off at, to whatever specific actual bldg/establishment they're trying to get to....

I don't really have to list the bus routes that parallel subway lines that garner high levels of ridership.... If such services were wasteful as some may believe, that phenomenon/actuality would never be the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
On 9/19/2021 at 12:19 AM, B35 via Church said:

Sure, no problem.

ADA accessibility aside, buses are generally used for short(er) distance trips.... Buses also typically/have the capability to serve more stops along a given corridor, compared to whatever subway line it may happen to parallel.... As an aside, I personally don't subscribe to the mindset that buses solely exist to transport riders to subways (not implicating that you do, but there are people that believe that)... As if to say, what's the point of a bus running along a subway line, when the subway line is *right there*.....

In laymens, it's a matter of coverage.... This express-a-holic mindset a lot of NY-ers have IMO is way overblown... People want express train service and/or SBS/LTD service to anywhere they need to get to (which I find ironic, but that's besides the point)..... With this notion of discontinuing bus routes that parallel subways, you're potentially forcing more people to have to walk to the subway - and also, do more walking from whatever subway station they got off at, to whatever specific actual bldg/establishment they're trying to get to....

I don't really have to list the bus routes that parallel subway lines that garner high levels of ridership.... If such services were wasteful as some may believe, that phenomenon/actuality would never be the case.

Something else to note. There are some people that simply prefer the local bus over the subway, be it for convenience, safety or just not having to deal with the subway, or all of the above. A few of my colleagues live in the City. They all prefer taking the bus over the subway. One had knee surgery, but even bfore that they didn't take the subway because of the stairs involved. It's just easier with the bus. Quite frankly, I never thought about the backtracking that is involved often times with the subway. 

I'm of the belief that every mode of transit has a place in our system and totally agree that bus lines that run near or under subways should not be discontinued. Look at the M101, M102, M103 lines. Lots of people take the bus even though you have the Lex subway there, but I much rather hop on the M101 bus than take the subway, even if I'm going from say 42nd to 59th St or even 86th St. Just more convenient, esp. if the bus is there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Read about the B15 possibly becoming an SBS route from this thread and decided to map it in this proposal of my own. It includes a revision to the existing B6 service pattern along with two new bus routes called the B80 SBS (Newkirk Plaza-JFK) and B81 Local (Newkirk Plaza-Spring Creek). I also proposed making the Av H/Glenwood Rd corridor an east/west pair to allow for the potential installment of bus lanes as these two roads are too narrow to accommodate them both ways: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1USzOfLBs20oQ0mo7L0Uo1EKVBT185vIh&ll=40.644249046777595%2C-73.889335&z=11

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I caught Brooklyn in one of Remix's videos about new features. Basically, they can show ridership details on the stop level in the platform. (The rest of the video is interesting as well).

Timepoint 37:07

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

I caught Brooklyn in one of Remix's videos about new features. Basically, they can show ridership details on the stop level in the platform. (The rest of the video is interesting as well).

Timepoint 37:07

 

Wish I could get access to Remix to do my own research.

Bae1 though? Such a failed pronunciation. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Anyone else think the B6 should be split? That route is way to long.

I don't think it should be split. It should get its own SBS variant like the B82, but bus lanes would be relegated only to Bay Parkway and Flatlands Avenue where there are two lanes in each direction as opposed to one. That route is already among the busiest in NYC and it's odd that it doesn't have SBS. Even the B35 which is also within the top ranks is already starting to get SBS treatment.

A map I made of the B6 SBS along with other revisions I proposed can be seen here (the older link I posted a few months ago doesn't work anymore): https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1rr0X07pPQeV5P7YUk1WxRyLPKkhpzn5F

Edited by Armandito
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Armandito said:

A map I made of the B6 SBS along with other revisions I proposed can be seen here (the older link I posted a few months ago doesn't work anymore): https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1rr0X07pPQeV5P7YUk1WxRyLPKkhpzn5F

I do have a concern. Why are you taking the B6 off Glenwood Road and Bedford Avenue? The current routing serves Brooklyn College and Midwood High School well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I do have a concern. Why are you taking the B6 off Glenwood Road and Bedford Avenue? The current routing serves Brooklyn College and Midwood High School well.

The area around Glenwood Road near "The Junction" is a bottleneck and I wanted to eliminate turns around that segment of the B6 route to enable more direct service.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Armandito said:

The area around Glenwood Road near "The Junction" is a bottleneck and I wanted to eliminate turns around that segment of the B6 route to enable more direct service.

That would only provide ammunition to those calling for it to be split.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, Lex said:

That would only provide ammunition to those calling for it to be split.

If you feel a split is better, I'd have one segment operate between The Junction and Bath Beach and another between Avenue J/Coney Island Avenue and Gateway Mall. You could also extend the B82 to that shopping center during daytime hours.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Armandito said:

The area around Glenwood Road near "The Junction" is a bottleneck and I wanted to eliminate turns around that segment of the B6 route to enable more direct service.

As someone who has commuted through the area, I will agree that the area as a whole is congested. However, I'm not convinced on the routing you proposed, since it bypasses the college and Midwood High, which sees a considerable number of people using the B6, including students. If anything, I recommend that bus lanes be added on Flatbush Avenue through the area (from Farragut Road to Avenue I), and have the B6 and B11 routes use those bus lanes from Glenwood Road to Avenue H, where the B6 would continue on Avenue H to the normal route. This could benefit other bus lines as well, such as the B41 and B103.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Armandito said:

If you feel a split is better, I'd have one segment operate between The Junction and Bath Beach and another between Avenue J/Coney Island Avenue and Gateway Mall. You could also extend the B82 to that shopping center during daytime hours.

Not sure I'd have the eastern split serve Gateway, but as far as the split itself goes, that's basically how people envision it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

As someone who has commuted through the area, I will agree that the area as a whole is congested. However, I'm not convinced on the routing you proposed, since it bypasses the college and Midwood High, which sees a considerable number of people using the B6, including students. If anything, I recommend that bus lanes be added on Flatbush Avenue through the area (from Farragut Road to Avenue I), and have the B6 and B11 routes use those bus lanes from Glenwood Road to Avenue H, where the B6 would continue on Avenue H to the normal route. This could benefit other bus lines as well, such as the B41 and B103.

I'll make the edits to my map soon.

 

39 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

There is no reason to have any new SBS routes with OMNI coming on line. The fare machines would be a waste of money.

So that means the proposed SBS routes on my map would have to remain as Limiteds. On the other hand, I'm not sure whether the existing SBS routes would be rebranded back to LTD or retain their existing branding once OMNY comes along.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, Armandito said:

So that means the proposed SBS routes on my map would have to remain as Limiteds. On the other hand, I'm not sure whether the existing SBS routes would be rebranded back to LTD or retain their existing branding once OMNY comes along.

They would probably keep their designations until they eliminate the existing machines. I believe the machines have a three year manufacturers warranty. So when they start breaking down and the MTA has to pay for maintenance they will remove the machines and slowly redesignate routes as Limiteds one at a time. It will probably be about ten years before all the machines are removed and the buses rebranded without the words SBS. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

They would probably keep their designations until they eliminate the existing machines. I believe the machines have a three year manufacturers warranty. So when they start breaking down and the MTA has to pay for maintenance they will remove the machines and slowly redesignate routes as Limiteds one at a time. It will probably be about ten years before all the machines are removed and the buses rebranded without the words SBS. 

But they may still be under the SBS brand to qualify for the whole BRT program. Remember that the (MTA) gets federal dollars for SBS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

But they may still be under the SBS brand to qualify for the whole BRT program. Remember that the (MTA) gets federal dollars for SBS.

I n that case, then they will just call all Limiteds SBS when OMNI is fully underway, but they will be no different than Limiteds, and that term will become extinct. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

I n that case, then they will just call all Limiteds SBS when OMNI is fully underway, but they will be no different than Limiteds, and that term will become extinct. 

The only differences between the two brands is the idea of paying before you board, having all door boarding and TSP (Transit Signal Priority). All of those things won't be unique features once OMNY replaces the Metrocard and the (MTA) finally proceeds with all-door boarding and expands TSP Citywide.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The only differences between the two brands is the idea of paying before you board, having all door boarding and TSP (Transit Signal Priority). All of those things won't be unique features once OMNY replaces the Metrocard and the (MTA) finally proceeds with all-door boarding and expands TSP Citywide.

SBS did serve its purpose during a time when the technology for OMNY wasn't widespread enough to enable tap-and-go boarding. There has been talk about retiring the MetroCard as far back as 2007 when this technology pioneered on the Lexington Av Line in a partnership with Citibank, but for a variety of reasons its evolution into a systemwide medium of fare payment has been very slow to progress. I suppose one of the reasons could be the palatial size and complexity of NYC's public transportation system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Armandito said:

SBS did serve its purpose during a time when the technology for OMNY wasn't widespread enough to enable tap-and-go boarding. There has been talk about retiring the MetroCard as far back as 2007 when this technology pioneered on the Lexington Av Line in a partnership with Citibank, but for a variety of reasons its evolution into a systemwide medium of fare payment has been very slow to progress. I suppose one of the reasons could be the palatial size and complexity of NYC's public transportation system.

I remember the technology well because when it debuted back then, I used it, since I had some contactless cards back then. They've had plenty of time to perfect this new payment system, that much I know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.