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Cait Sith

Brooklyn Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

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5 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

its funny that I I just had a discussion about this a couple of days with a member of the opposite political party. about how this change occurred.

We remember the b/36 change and how it was implemented at that time as it was put in place without any real discussion with us (the riders).

Everyone in the community knows who was involved and how this individual who has announced that he is running for congress wants their votes, (I cannot vote in their primary as I am a member of the opposite party). However, I will do everything that I can to remind the   voters and residents that ride the B/36 that this is the individual who changed the B/36 and refused to take responsibilityfcor his actions.

What I am afraid of with this clown is that just to get even with the B/36 riders on Nostrand Avenue that he will use his influence and have the B/36 route go down Nostrand Avenue and replace the B/4 to Knapp Street..

I won’t mention names since you didn’t. But what I would like to know is how you know this individual is the one who was responsible for this change? I also do not believe this individual to be vindictive to take the action you predict. 

This is how I remember everything going down. About three years earlier DOT comes to C.B. 15 with a proposal to make Sheepshead Bay one way for two blocks to supposedly relieve traffic congestion. That change would mean the B36 would have to be altered in the westbound direction to proceed directly on Av Z. The CB thinks this is a bad idea and tells that to DOT. Everyone assumes the proposal is dead since nothing happens for about three years. Then a lady crossing East 17 Street at Avenue Z is killed by a B36 making a left turn which has been made safely for over 40 years without any problems. The cause of the accident is never made public so we do not know of it was the drivers fault or the pedestrians. But since no one said she was crossing against the light, it is assumed it is the fault of the driver. But no information is giving regarding the bus like if the brakes were properly working, etc. 

DOT then gathers some facts that shows there were other crashes in the area in the past five years or so, but no other fatalities. So they immediately conclude that intersection (although that was the only incident there) as well as the entire area is dangerous. (You can go to any area and find a few crashes in the past five years and conclude if you want to that any area is dangerous.) No comparison is made to other areas, so no one knows how dangerous it really is or if it is dangerous at all. But that is how DOT operates.

So they propose to close E 15 Street to traffic and convert two blocks to one way which necessitates that the B36 operate straight along Avenue Z. The MTA is asked by DOT if they have any objection. Of course they wouldn’t because it means they save a few feet of route mileage. Riders aren’t happy so they approach the individual in question and ask him to intervene. 

That individual has told me he has an excellent relationship with DOT so he doesn’t want to jeopardize that by opposing them. His solution is to get them to install a few lights under the train, because some claimed it would be too dangerous to wait for a bus at the new bus stop in the dark. He obtains the lights and considers the matter closed.

The MTA is asked what they think and their response is the buses are no longer getting stuck in traffic so it’s a good thing. That is an outright lie, because there was no traffic during the evening rush hour one week before which I have on video. The bus spent a maximum of an extra minute serving the station with the sixth highest bus subway transfer volumes in the city.

Now several thousand a day must walk an extra block, some running dangerously across Avenue Z to catch a bus and others just missing a bus or train because of a change where half the passengers on every bus gets off or on at Sheepshead Bay Station. 

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When this entire issue came up, you and I  discussed this issue and the sudden implementation. The time frame for response was too constrictive as there was less than a week involved between the announcement and the implementation.It was one week around the passover holidays that this change was announced and the time for community imput which was nothing. Since  we are on te other side of Nostrand Avenue which was not part of his district but the part that was in another councilman's district, we were told to go through our councilman which we didOur councilman tried to speak to this individual raising the issues that we bought to the attention of our councilman such as how it will impact upon our large senior population especially in bad weather and, the location of the bus stop heading toward our area in a dark spot especially at night. 

To say the least, our councilman got nowhere with him even though we had a legitimate argument that no change be made at all. As far as his relationship with the NYCDOT is concerned,weI could not care less as obiviously, he cares more about his relationships with his govenment friends as compared with this community. We now have useless bike lanes on Avenues W & X and two way traffic on Avenue V west of Nostrand Avenue which has turned the street into a speedway. As far as where the B/36 stops going toward Avenue U,  we wonder how his friends in the NYCDOT  made the situation better especially with there are three bus routes at the stop and in many cases coming at the same time.thus tying up traffic on Avenue Z in both directions at East 15th Street. 

The last time there was a congressional primary in 2018, the number of actual voters that voted in this area was extremetly low or about 20 voters voting per district. If the councilman thinks he can win this part of the district especially with his track record concerning my community then I wish him well, On the other hand, why is he appealing to Republicans and Independents to change their party regisltations, so that they can vote for him especially with his record on transit in our community? 

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1 hour ago, Interested Rider said:

When this entire issue came up, you and I  discussed this issue and the sudden implementation. The time frame for response was too constrictive as there was less than a week involved between the announcement and the implementation.It was one week around the passover holidays that this change was announced and the time for community imput which was nothing. Since  we are on te other side of Nostrand Avenue which was not part of his district but the part that was in another councilman's district, we were told to go through our councilman which we didOur councilman tried to speak to this individual raising the issues that we bought to the attention of our councilman such as how it will impact upon our large senior population especially in bad weather and, the location of the bus stop heading toward our area in a dark spot especially at night. 

To say the least, our councilman got nowhere with him even though we had a legitimate argument that no change be made at all. As far as his relationship with the NYCDOT is concerned,weI could not care less as obiviously, he cares more about his relationships with his govenment friends as compared with this community. We now have useless bike lanes on Avenues W & X and two way traffic on Avenue V west of Nostrand Avenue which has turned the street into a speedway. As far as where the B/36 stops going toward Avenue U,  we wonder how his friends in the NYCDOT  made the situation better especially with there are three bus routes at the stop and in many cases coming at the same time.thus tying up traffic on Avenue Z in both directions at East 15th Street. 

The last time there was a congressional primary in 2018, the number of actual voters that voted in this area was extremetly low or about 20 voters voting per district. If the councilman thinks he can win this part of the district especially with his track record concerning my community then I wish him well, On the other hand, why is he appealing to Republicans and Independents to change their party regisltations, so that they can vote for him especially with his record on transit in our community? 

I agree that he did nothing to help the situation and was also disappointed in him. But still, I believe DOT is to blame expecially the Brooklyn Commissioner who lied to the Plumb Beach Association by flatly stating DOT never installs bike lanes unless the community asks for it, but at the same time installed them on Queens Blvd against community wishes. In Manhattan Beach, the community along with the councilman you mentioned asked DOT to move "pilot" bus lanes from Oriental Blvd installed in 2003 to Shore Blvd sidewalk where they belong, because there is a dual sidewalk that was actually built that way so it could be a bike lane. DOT has now been "studying" that for ten years and has tried to say it was up to the Department of Parks, not them. 

I think he is generally a good person and you are blaming the wrong person. DOT is the one who pushed it through without giving the community a say and that who deserves the blame. Anyway, when I asked him why he wouldn't help he told me that more of his constituents told him they preferred the route go straight on Ave Z. If he was telling the truth is your guess as much as mine. Though I can't see why he would lie about that.

I can't answer your question regarding his political ambitions. I know my conscience is clear in that I did whatever I could including handing out stickers with the web address of my petition. Unfortunately, I didn't know how to use social media and was only able to get 60 signatures so I never even submitted it to DOT. I needed at least several hundred to make a statement. 

I am more worried about what the MTA will do to our bus routes and the bus stops they will remove. I have over 1600 signatures for that petition. We can't give up on that fight. 

When did they change the traffic on Avenue V? I was last there about a month ago. 

Edited by BrooklynBus

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14 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

The route profiles are detailed in this conditions report. The Queens report just had corridors.

Yes there certainly is a lot of information there, but sone of it is also misleading like the map that shows everyone is within a quarter mile of a bus route which makes it appear there are no transit deserts. The map should show how many are within a quarter mile of an east west AND a north south bus route. Because if you are within a quarter mile of an east west route, but you need to go north south you may have to walk further than a quarter mile. If you first have to  take the east west route to get to a north south route you need, you will need multiple transfers to get to your destination.

Theoretically you could only have east west routes and no north south routes and that map would show everyone is within a quarter mile of a bus route when in reality most people couldn't get where they need to go unless they need to travel in a straight line. 

East New York is a perfect example.

Edited by BrooklynBus

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MTA QUESTIONS NEED FOR SO MANY BUSES DOWNTOWN: REPORT

https://www.brooklynpaper.com/mta-questions-need-for-so-many-buses-downtown-report/

Quote

Transit gurus at the Metropolitan Transportation Authority are considering removing buses from Downtown Brooklyn routes as part of a revamp of the borough’s bus system, according to a new report.

 

On 2/2/2020 at 10:55 AM, BrooklynBus said:

Yes there certainly is a lot of information there, but sone of it is also misleading like the map that shows everyone is within a quarter mile of a bus route which makes it appear there are no transit deserts. The map should show how many are within a quarter mile of an east west AND a north south bus route. Because if you are within a quarter mile of an east west route, but you need to go north south you may have to walk further than a quarter mile. If you first have to  take the east west route to get to a north south route you need, you will need multiple transfers to get to your destination.

Theoretically you could only have east west routes and no north south routes and that map would show everyone is within a quarter mile of a bus route when in reality most people couldn't get where they need to go unless they need to travel in a straight line. 

East New York is a perfect example.

I mean, if the rule is being near a bus route then they're technically being truthful.  The grid system does help with that because you have many crossing routes to transfer to.

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It took a bit to register, but we'd better keep a very good eye on the B37 and B63. I can see someone trying to either "combine" the two or (more likely) scrapping both and telling everyone to use the (R).

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2 hours ago, Lex said:

It took a bit to register, but we'd better keep a very good eye on the B37 and B63. I can see someone trying to either "combine" the two or (more likely) scrapping both and telling everyone to use the (R).

They better not mess with the 63... I ride that route very often and it is incredibly useful.

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3 hours ago, Lex said:

It took a bit to register, but we'd better keep a very good eye on the B37 and B63. I can see someone trying to either "combine" the two or (more likely) scrapping both and telling everyone to use the (R).

Unless the (MTA) could finish construction on the 4th Avenue express and local I cannot foresee the B37 and B63 to be eliminated.
However, stranger things have happen. 

Other routes to pay attention. Downtown to Ridgewood, Downtown to Bushwick, Downtown to Maspeth and Downtown to Canarsie. For starters and for reality sake you need the 14 bus lines for connection reliability. Not everyone wants to take the train and also the way the (MTA) is pushing everyone to take the train simply states they want to get out the bus business-SMH. 

ALSO, the traffic is the bigger issue. Unless there’s a solution to this cutting 14 bus lines that serve the central business district doesn’t fit the script. 

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On 1/31/2020 at 11:51 PM, MHV9218 said:

Why post such meaningless speculation when we know this won't occur? On what possible planet is the B63 getting eliminated? On what alternate planet is the B25 going away? In what as-yet undiscovered universe is the B15 being eliminated? And in what cosmic void is the B62 getting cut?

I know I’m pretty late to this thread but if the (MTA) proposed getting rid of the Q56 back in 2009, I don’t see how getting rid of the B25 is a shocker. I think what the biggest shocker would be is the fact that they haven’t learned their lesson despite opposition from the times when they tried eliminating bus routes that ran along subway lines. Also look what happened to the Q24 on Broadway. They got rid of it only to bring it back and as long as those subway stops have no elevators and lack multiple entrances good luck trying to sell that to people as a better alternative. There have been times I’ve used the Q24 over the (J) on Broadway because I did not want to have to walk to the front and or back of the platform then walk the opposite way on the street when there could have a entrance on both ends of the platform. This always used to happen when I would visit friend who lived a block south of the Chauncey Street Station. However sometimes at Jamaica Center I was hop into the last car closest to the entrance because the train was about to leave. Chauncey Street only has an exit at the front so it would require me to walk to the front of the platform just to walk back on the street. 
 

However the MTA wouldn’t see that as a problem, and I’m surprised they didn’t propose for the Q24 to get cut back to Broadway Junction under the redesign. So it may suggest that they are tweaking the B20 over there which may not go to Ridgewood anymore. 

 

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3 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Unless the (MTA) could finish construction on the 4th Avenue express and local I cannot foresee the B37 and B63 to be eliminated.

The underlying issues are unrelated to that particular work, though...

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On 1/31/2020 at 11:51 PM, MHV9218 said:

Why post such meaningless speculation when we know this won't occur? On what possible planet is the B63 getting eliminated? On what alternate planet is the B25 going away? In what as-yet undiscovered universe is the B15 being eliminated? And in what cosmic void is the B62 getting cut?

It is not meaningless speculation. Anyway, I never said they would succeeed in getting any of this done. Merely that they would try. And if the QT1 goes through, you know it would replace the B62, not supplement it. And I changed my B15 prediction to half the stops being eliminated and it running on Linden non-stop after Brookdale Hospital. I picked the B63 instead of the B37 because the community worked so hard to get it restored. If they try it again, it would be too obvious, they don't care about the passengers. 

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8 hours ago, Lex said:

It took a bit to register, but we'd better keep a very good eye on the B37 and B63. I can see someone trying to either "combine" the two or (more likely) scrapping both and telling everyone to use the (R).

I don't think anything's going to happen with the 5th av portion of the B63; it's the Atlantic av. portion of the route I'd be worried about (especially considering how the B45 & B65 accesses/leaves Downtown Brooklyn).... They'll try to streamline Atlantic av. service somehow.... I wouldn't be surprised if they truncated the B63 at Barclays.....

Service along 3rd av I think will end up being fragmented....

Speaking of 3rd av, the route I'm most concerned about being eliminated is the B103.

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29 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I don't think anything's going to happen with the 5th av portion of the B63; it's the Atlantic av. portion of the route I'd be worried about (especially considering how the B45 & B65 accesses/leaves Downtown Brooklyn).... They'll try to streamline Atlantic av. service somehow.... I wouldn't be surprised if they truncated the B63 at Barclays.....

Service along 3rd av I think will end up being fragmented....

Speaking of 3rd av, the route I'm most concerned about being eliminated is the B103.

Possible trounce only to the Junction or Church Ave-Ocean Parkway. No Downtown service. 

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15 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Possible trounce only to the Junction or Church Ave-Ocean Parkway. No Downtown service. 

Regardless of anything redesign related, why would the B103 end at Church/Ocean Pkwy? Its in the middle of nothing in-particular.... That's one thing I'll give these prior redesign plans (Bronx/Queens) credit for not f***ing up with....

For no Downtown service, they'd clip it at the Junction.

Edited by B35 via Church
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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

I don't think anything's going to happen with the 5th av portion of the B63; it's the Atlantic av. portion of the route I'd be worried about (especially considering how the B45 & B65 accesses/leaves Downtown Brooklyn).... They'll try to streamline Atlantic av. service somehow.... I wouldn't be surprised if they truncated the B63 at Barclays.....

Service along 3rd av I think will end up being fragmented....

Speaking of 3rd av, the route I'm most concerned about being eliminated is the B103.

 

53 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Possible trounce only to the Junction or Church Ave-Ocean Parkway. No Downtown service. 

 

44 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Regardless of anything redesign related, why would the B103 end at Church/Ocean Pkwy? Its in the middle of nothing in-particular.... That's one thing I'll give these prior redesign plans (Bronx/Queens) credit for not f***ing up with....

For no Downtown service, they'd clip it at the Junction.

I think all are possibilities. Truncate the B63 at Barclays if they don't eliminate it. End the B103 at McDonald and Church. End the B103 at the Junction. The thing is if they do cut or eliminate the B103, you think they would have to come up with a good reason since it is so unlike any other Brooklyn route. Reasons like it costs much more to operate per mile than other routes which would be a possibility since I expect there is less turnover on that route with many trips similar to Express riders' trips with a trip average of 5 miles or greater instead of 2.3 miles for local routes.  

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9 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I think all are possibilities. Truncate the B63 at Barclays if they don't eliminate it. End the B103 at McDonald and Church. End the B103 at the Junction. The thing is if they do cut or eliminate the B103, you think they would have to come up with a good reason since it is so unlike any other Brooklyn route. Reasons like it costs much more to operate per mile than other routes which would be a possibility since I expect there is less turnover on that route with many trips similar to Express riders' trips with a trip average of 5 miles or greater instead of 2.3 miles for local routes.  

They're probably going to use the route profiles to justify the cut, the passenger load spikes up at the Junction and is low west of The Brighton Line /McDonald Ave.

They may cut the western end and extend it to Gateway.

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Anybody banking on the (MTA) bringing back revisions of the B23, 40, 51, 75 or 77?

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14 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Anybody banking on the (MTA) bringing back revisions of the B23, 40, 51, 75 or 77?

Everything except the B40. Seeing as they butchered the Queens lines, its probably gonna be some combined super route

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18 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Anybody banking on the (MTA) bringing back revisions of the B23, 40, 51, 75 or 77?

I would care more about nostalgia if I felt the MTA weren't being underhanded with these redesigns...

What I'd bank on, is steaming-turd-smiley-emoticon.gif service levels for whatever concoctions that'll result from this ultimate scheme....

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5 hours ago, Fresh Pond said:

Everything except the B40. Seeing as they butchered the Queens lines, its probably gonna be some combined super route

I definitely don't see them bringing back the B51. The B75/77 I don't see them bringing back either but it's possible (e.g. Split the B61 at Red Hook)

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I literally just got worried that someone would "think" to swap the B7 and B82 (the former becoming some unholy mix of the existing route and the B5, the latter reverting to a B50 that uses Avenue K instead of Flatbush Avenue to reach Flatlands Avenue).

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I highly doubt that they'll revive a route that was discontinued prior to 2010. If that's the case, just bring back the B30 lol

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On 5/8/2020 at 12:11 PM, Q43LTD said:

Anybody banking on the (MTA) bringing back revisions of the B23, 40, 51, 75 or 77?

I mean, considering that they are attempting to bring back some old service patterns in the Bronx and Queens bus redesigns, I wouldn't be surprised if some old service patterns return in a modified way. 

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