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Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread


Lawrence St

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1 hour ago, Cait Sith said:

As I said in the other Queens redesign thread, construction is set to take place within the airport and the other airport routes are being shifted around. They're still determining a proper place to terminate all the routes until the Port Authority figures it out.

But the question many will probably have is will the (MTA) make these changes permanent just to save a buck or two?

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1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

 

My worry is that buses will get bogged down on Astoria Blvd and never get to Whitestone.

Nevermind all the traffic in Flushing on Roosevelt near Main and Skyview.  And Mets game days.  This route is going to lead to ridiculous bunching.

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13 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

QT14:

 

What are they doing calling this an Airport Route? It don't even stop inside the dam airport, and if they ain't going to make a free transfer or something to the AirTrain, don't even bother.

They have this route running to Lefferts AIRTrain..... While I wouldn't go around marketing it as an "airport route", that station is still airport property.... You make it sound like they're proposing terminating this thing no where near the airport on that end....

1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

My worry is that buses will get bogged down on Astoria Blvd and never get to Whitestone.

Astoria Blvd. isn't the problem.... Roosevelt, before you ever hit Flushing, is.....

42 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Not with 20 minute headways.

Albeit for different reasons, B32's & Q76's have a tendency to bunch....  (I) Can't stand buses along routes that bunch on high headways.

This plan has too many routes running on that part of Roosevelt.

Edited by B35 via Church
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6 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

How does one go about seeing the petition?

Excuse the omission, I had lost the tab and didn't feel like searching for it again, haha.

5 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

There it is, thanks.

4 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

My worry is that buses will get bogged down on Astoria Blvd and never get to Whitestone.

They're probably going to add bus lanes to Astoria Blvd and Roosevelt Ave (by Willets Pt).

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2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I've seen express buses bunch on 60 minute headways.

As have I, but how the express buses are managed tend to be a mess also.

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Albeit for different reasons, B32's & Q76's have a tendency to bunch....  (I) Can't stand buses along routes that bunch on high headways.

This plan has too many routes running on that part of Roosevelt.

The Q76 definitely does, I don't even know why, but it does. I haven't checked out that B32 in a minute, it must be funny looking at the only two buses on the line running back to back 🤣

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9 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

I just noticed a nice typo on the overall local map. Willets Point Blvd (QT48) is shown as "West Point"!

There are many typos. Dimars Blvd instead of Ditmars. Calling Ditmars 22 Avenue for  part of the street, etc. That is the least of the problems, but it does show sloppiness. So you can imagine how much thought went into some of the proposals. 

 

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Is it possible that the reason some routes can have reduced headway is because, with the new connectivity between routes, riders won't all have to go to Jamaica or Flushing to transfer to other routes? And also, some may actually ride in the opposite direction to reach new connections which may balance out demand?

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36 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

Is it possible that the reason some routes can have reduced headway is because, with the new connectivity between routes, riders won't all have to go to Jamaica or Flushing to transfer to other routes? And also, some may actually ride in the opposite direction to reach new connections which may balance out demand?

What are you not understanding?  There's one reason and it's to reduce the (MTA)'s plain and simple.

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1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Not "somewhat". They are required by law to have a balanced budget.  

 

There are other ways to be more efficient without doing it on the backs of bus riders.

Example through more efficient scheduling. Why do buses operate halfway across the borough not in service? 

Why after 15 years have they not been able to merge NYCT and MTA BusCo depots. Think of all the wasted money by just by having the B100 operating out of Spring Creek Depot for 15 years as opposed to Flatbush Depot that it runs right past. 

Why has interior bus advertisement space been empty for the past 40 years? It's because the terms and conditions are not conducive to local businesses. The MTA claims no one wants to advertise on the inside of buses. Maybe that's true for the chains. But if the price was right, local businesses would advertise. Look at all the extra money they would have over 40 years if each ad space had been filled at a cost of $10 per month? Assuming 50 spaces per bus, that's $500 per bus per month x 4,000 buses is $2,000,000 per month x 12 months is $24 million per year x 40 years is  $960 million. 

There is something wrong with the current terms. Either the terms are too long, you have to advertise on too many buses where you have no potential customers or the cost is too much. If you could only advertise on buses in one depot, for a reasonable term at a reasonable charge, you would get customers. Hasn't the MTA heard of supply and demand? The problem is they just contracted out the advertising and probably haven't reviewed the terms of the contract in years and left everything to the vendor to decide. Anything they would charge is better than no revenue at all. 

 

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32 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

 

There are other ways to be more efficient without doing it on the backs of bus riders.

Example through more efficient scheduling. Why do buses operate halfway across the borough not in service? 

Why after 15 years have they not been able to merge NYCT and MTA BusCo depots. Think of all the wasted money by just by having the B100 operating out of Spring Creek Depot for 15 years as opposed to Flatbush Depot that it runs right past. 

Why has interior bus advertisement space been empty for the past 40 years? It's because the terms and conditions are not conducive to local businesses. The MTA claims no one wants to advertise on the inside of buses. Maybe that's true for the chains. But if the price was right, local businesses would advertise. Look at all the extra money they would have over 40 years if each ad space had been filled at a cost of $10 per month? Assuming 50 spaces per bus, that's $500 per bus per month x 4,000 buses is $2,000,000 per month x 12 months is $24 million per year x 40 years is  $960 million. 

There is something wrong with the current terms. Either the terms are too long, you have to advertise on too many buses where you have no potential customers or the cost is too much. If you could only advertise on buses in one depot, for a reasonable term at a reasonable charge, you would get customers. Hasn't the MTA heard of supply and demand? The problem is they just contracted out the advertising and probably haven't reviewed the terms of the contract in years and left everything to the vendor to decide. Anything they would charge is better than no revenue at all. 

 

Try explaining that to Outfront Media, formerly CBS OUTDOOR, the long time (MTA) advertiser. The TA is too selective with the advertising. Outside of Manhattan, it’s a complete dub for the outer boroughs. It’s all about foot traffic and where placements are going to be. 

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1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

Why do buses operate halfway across the borough not in service? 

They’re assuming everyone’s gonna stay waiting at the bus stop when their 10 minute wait becomes 20 after what’s effectively a cancelled interval.

If I’m waiting 20 minutes for a bus that’s running every 10 one of the following will happen:

-If it’s a discretionary trip (like to the mall) and this keeps happening to me, I aint making the trip anymore. (MTA) makes $0 and the economy loses out depending where I wanted to go.

-If it’s an essential trip (appointment or job) and I have to squeeze on a bus and they’re not bunching, to the back door i go. (MTA) makes $0. They could still make $2.75 if they bring a second bus to relieve the first one but my hopes won’t be high at that point. 

-If it’s a *very essential* trip (interview, surgery) and the bus either takes too long or becomes a sardine can, off to Uber I go. Sure, the (MTA) makes $2.75 indirectly via a miscellaneous fee, but the bus route I wanted to use won’t tally me as a rider for that day, still making said route vulnerable to further cuts.

They’re taking people for granted, but they don’t really care if they lose riders since running less buses seems to be the goal here.

Edited by paulrivera
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22 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

They’re assuming everyone’s gonna stay waiting at the bus stop when their 10 minute wait becomes 20 after what’s effectively a cancelled interval.

If I’m waiting 20 minutes for a bus that’s running every 10 one of the following will happen:

-If it’s a discretionary trip (like to the mall) and this keeps happening to me, I aint making the trip anymore. (MTA) makes $0 and the economy loses out depending where I wanted to go.

-If it’s an essential trip (appointment or job) and I have to squeeze on a bus and they’re not bunching, to the back door i go. (MTA) makes $0. They could still make $2.75 if they bring a second bus to relieve the first one but my hopes won’t be high at that point. 

-If it’s a *very essential* trip (interview, surgery) and the bus either takes too long or becomes a sardine can, off to Uber I go. Sure, the (MTA) makes $2.75 indirectly via a miscellaneous fee, but the bus route I wanted to use won’t tally me as a rider for that day, still making said route vulnerable to further cuts.

They’re taking people for granted, but they don’t really care if they lose riders since running less buses seems to be the goal here.

Everything you say is quite true but has nothing to do with why there is far too excessive non-revenue mileage. If the problem is depot capacity, they need to fix that problem. 

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7 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

Is it possible that the reason some routes can have reduced headway is because, with the new connectivity between routes, riders won't all have to go to Jamaica or Flushing to transfer to other routes? And also, some may actually ride in the opposite direction to reach new connections which may balance out demand?

Anything is possible. Given that they actually made an attempt to provide spans & frequencies in the draft plan (compared to The Bronx where they didn't release those until the final plan), it's possible they did some rough, preliminary calculations.

The other thing to consider is that in Eastern Queens, some corridors have an orange trunk route covering the areas closer to the subway, and a purple feeder route covering areas further away. So they are taking some frequency from the outer portions and giving it to the inner portions and hoping it addresses some of the overcrowding.

However, some reductions (e.g. Less weekend Q66 service) don't make any sense.

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1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

Everything you say is quite true but has nothing to do with why there is far too excessive non-revenue mileage. If the problem is depot capacity, they need to fix that problem. 

Lost my point mid sentence, my bad.

I was aiming towards the non-revenue mileage when buses get to the terminal late and then the majority of said delayed buses run halfway down the line not in service.

The other day I was on a Bx12 that ended up tailing what turned out to be a deadheading Bx22 to Bedford Park. That thing apparently ran all the way from Castle Hill to Fordham EMPTY.

Do that little trick at noon when there’s Fordham/Bedford Park split service and that’s easily a 1-hour wait for a Bedford Park bus from the other end (this was at like 4pm and I still couldn’t believe what I saw.)

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1 hour ago, paulrivera said:

Lost my point mid sentence, my bad.

I was aiming towards the non-revenue mileage when buses get to the terminal late and then the majority of said delayed buses run halfway down the line not in service.

The other day I was on a Bx12 that ended up tailing what turned out to be a deadheading Bx22 to Bedford Park. That thing apparently ran all the way from Castle Hill to Fordham EMPTY.

Do that little trick at noon when there’s Fordham/Bedford Park split service and that’s easily a 1-hour wait for a Bedford Park bus from the other end (this was at like 4pm and I still couldn’t believe what I saw.)

But I think many are just scheduled that way. I saw a B82 on Avenue P and E 15 Street running Not in Service westbound. Looked like it was deadheading from East NY Depot to Coney Island or 25 Avenue. I also saw a Q53 deadheading southbound around Metropolitan Avenue. 

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I saw the bus redesign folks out at Main Street doing outreach in the station.  They had a table, a map on poster board, and just handing out brochures asking for people to read the plan and comment.  Hopefully people will actually comment on how this is plan is a bit too crazy.

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33 minutes ago, 7-express said:

I saw the bus redesign folks out at Main Street doing outreach in the station.  They had a table, a map on poster board, and just handing out brochures asking for people to read the plan and comment.  Hopefully people will actually comment on how this is plan is a bit too crazy.

And what makes you think the MTA will be objective and listen to them? The only purpose of these sessions is to select comments they can use to support the changes they want to make like: we need faster buses, or buses make too many stops, buses aren’t reliable, we need better routes  or I like proposal such and such, and things like that. Negative comments like a route proposal doesn’t help them will be ignored. You are far too trusting of the MTA. 

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