Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[QM1to6Ave]

Gotta love the MTA’s spin on it

[Around the Horn]

It's all a moot point until we get a mayor with a spine like Paris's. Her Ville Du Quart D’Heure proposal is transformative...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2020/01/21/phasing-out-cars-key-to-paris-mayors-plans-for-15-minute-city/#63b389866952

Quote

Should she get reelected as Mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo plans to turn the French capital into a myriad of neighborhoods where “you can find everything you need within 15 minutes from home.”

But, preferably, not by car. Instead, the Socialist Party politician wants more Parisians to walk and cycle.

Plans for the “city of fifteen minutes”—or, Ville Du Quart D’Heure—were unveiled on January 21 by Hidalgo’s reelection campaign, Paris En Commun.

The plans, which aim to transform Paris into a people-friendly city, build on Hidalgo’s “Plan Vélo” transport changes made during her current term of office, which has included removing space for cars and boosting space for cyclists and pedestrians.

https://www.citymetric.com/transport/mayor-anne-hidalgo-making-paris-more-friendly-cyclists-and-more-hostile-cars-4885

Quote

Since Anne Hidalgo’s election as Mayor of Paris in 2014, she has pursued a genuinely radical agenda of greening the city by creating “urban forests” and re-engineering some of the city’s squares and roundabouts to be less centred on cars. Yet by far the most radical transformation Hidalgo has overseen has been the radical expansion of protected cycle lanes around the city.

The results are astonishing: cycling rates have gone up by 50 per cent in one year alone. On some streets, installing protected cycle lanes doubled or tripled numbers of cyclists using them. Pollution is down. More Parisians now cycle every day than take line 1 of the metro, the busiest of the lot. Car use in Paris is falling for the first time since the 1940s.  

 

[jaf0519]

14 hours ago, Cain said:

Sorry, what does that mean?

So the new blue lines in the Queens Redesign Plan (they call it "connecting high-demand areas" service type) are just like Super Limited bus service without the SBS treatment?

The only SBS lines in Queens will be the M60, QT44, QT52, and QT70. The QT1-7, QT13, and QT50 will all be limited stop routes. The prurple routes will act as the kind of as the Inter-County express buses act in Westchester, taking people from a neighborhood to a high demand destination like the subway. Both the green and red routes are local, with the red being more major corridors with high frequency and slightly further stop spacing, and green being more infrequent with more stops. SBS will most likely be phased out by the time OMNY is fully implemented, since OMNY should be quicker than the Metrocard is now, combined with all door boarding, even though i disagree with that part of the plan.

[N6 Limited]

1 hour ago, OrionVIIonM79 said:

There. You admitted climate change exists 

Well, the climate is always changing. Long Island was formed by a glacier, how did the glacier form?  How did it melt?

But yes,  man made climate change exists in the minds of those who believe the propaganda.

Quote

 

Since Anne Hidalgo’s election as Mayor of Paris in 2014, she has pursued a genuinely radical agenda of greening the city by creating “urban forests” and re-engineering some of the city’s squares and roundabouts to be less centred on cars. Yet by far the most radical transformation Hidalgo has overseen has been the radical expansion of protected cycle lanes around the city.

The results are astonishing: cycling rates have gone up by 50 per cent in one year alone. On some streets, installing protected cycle lanes doubled or tripled numbers of cyclists using them. Pollution is down. More Parisians now cycle every day than take line 1 of the metro, the busiest of the lot. Car use in Paris is falling for the first time since the 1940s.  

 

It's amazing how much faster one can get around on bike. Especially if cars are stuck in traffic and buses are poking along.

Dedicated bike lanes and priority work best. If you're on a non-pedal-assisted bike, stopping for stop signs and traffic signals is a momentum killer.

25 minutes ago, jaf0519 said:

SBS will most likely be phased out by the time OMNY is fully implemented

Doesn't the MTA get subsidy for SBS routes?

[Lex]

Republican "talking points" on climate change are nothing more than that. There is no debate to be had.

Now that that's out of the way, there are corridors that still don't have SBS (or true BRT, though we don't have that anywhere in this city right now) but have enough potential to benefit. Some that come to mind are Third/Lexington (the M101's leg up 10th Avenue and 125th Street certainly does no favors), Concourse (the Bx1 is a drag), Flatbush (especially baffling, considering the B41's history of failing to meet demand), and Parsons/Kissena (the ridership may not be as high as Main Street, but it's certainly no slouch, and this is keeping the relative proximity in mind).

[JeremiahC99]

7 hours ago, jaf0519 said:

SBS will most likely be phased out by the time OMNY is fully implemented, since OMNY should be quicker than the Metrocard is now, combined with all door boarding, even though i disagree with that part of the plan.

I do disagree with that part of the plan somewhat, but I would suggest retaining the off-board fare collection with OMNY at high-ridership locations, such as Utica Avenue and Eastern Pkwy and Utica Avenue and Fulton Street, both on the B46 SBS.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

[N6 Limited]

8 hours ago, Lex said:

Republican "talking points" on climate change are nothing more than that. There is no debate to be had.

Right, It's literally all just that, talking points, across the board, because its faux. 

It was recently called "global warming" until we started having record winters, and a few mild summers, so they re-branded it "climate change", makes it easy to attribute any weather event to this "issue". 

OMG a blizzard in the winter, climate change! Heat wave in the summer, climate change!  Mild day in the winter, climate change! Chilly day in the summer, climate change! Hurricane during hurricane season? Climate change! Less snow than usual? Climate change! More snow than usual? Climate change! Drought? Climate Change! heavy rain? Climate change!

Wasn't it called "global cooling" in the 70's? Wasn't there more blatant pollution in the 70's, check all the movies made in the 70's, the sky is nice and brown. No emissions testing, or requirements, etc.

5 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I do disagree with that part of the plan somewhat, but I would suggest retaining the off-board fare collection with OMNY at high-ridership locations, such as Utica Avenue and Eastern Pkwy and Utica Avenue and Fulton Street, both on the B46 SBS.

The MTA probably wants to shed the cost of maintaining sidewalk machines. (or is that a NYCDOT cost?)

[GojiMet86]

Nothing bad is going on with the weather the same way there's nothing bad about the MTA Queens Bus Re-design.

Okay then.

[Uncle Floyd Fan]

Sat at the same table with Jim Rockaway and also spoke to a few MTA rep's (including Lucille Songhai) in Kew Gardens. I handed them my talking points about saving the good service we presently have on the QM5/6. It was a good crowd. I might go to the Friday rally if timing permits.

Pics from the Queens Bus Redesign Meeting in Kew Gardens (if you're seeing this, thanks Jim!).

https://mobile.twitter.com/JimRockaway/status/1222361574809251841

Edited January 29, 2020 by Uncle Floyd Fan

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On the one hand, the "plan" is being presented as only a draft (even though lots of people are treating it as the final plan).

 

On the other hand, maybe they should have held the workshops before developing the draft plan (as they did with the Bronx).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

39 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

On the one hand, the "plan" is being presented as only a draft (even though lots of people are treating it as the final plan).

 

On the other hand, maybe they should have held the workshops before developing the draft plan (as they did with the Bronx).

They are still trying their best to sell this sh***y plan though. It's pathetic. Pat Foye was grilled in Albany by Queens lawmakers on the Queens plan and he said they would have to go back and look at. Yeah you can say that again. 

[Future ENY OP]

14 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

They are still trying their best to sell this sh***y plan though. It's pathetic. Pat Foye was grilled in Albany by Queens lawmakers on the Queens plan and he said they would have to go back and look at. Yeah you can say that again. 

I guess the Byford effect is reality. 

[bobtehpanda]

14 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I do disagree with that part of the plan somewhat, but I would suggest retaining the off-board fare collection with OMNY at high-ridership locations, such as Utica Avenue and Eastern Pkwy and Utica Avenue and Fulton Street, both on the B46 SBS.

What's wrong with all-door-boarding with onboard bus readers?

A smartcard reader is about the size of a wallet. They're very easy to just cover a bus in. And there are, physically, less buses than bus stops in this city.

[JeremiahC99]

18 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

What's wrong with all-door-boarding with onboard bus readers?

A smartcard reader is about the size of a wallet. They're very easy to just cover a bus in. And there are, physically, less buses than bus stops in this city.

My fear is that at very very busy stops, even with both doors open, this would still lead to dwell issues at the stops. This is not a problem on B46 SBS stops like at Avenue K, where the stop is moderately used (at least in the morning), and dwell is not a issue. Here is where folks should be able to board the bus and pay on board at any door.

However, at the subway station at Utica Avenue and Eastern Pkwy, a very popular transfer points, there are huge crowds exiting the trains there and this results in lots of people waiting at the bus stop for the buses to come in. Even with payment on board at every door, dwell times could potentially be an issue, with folks having to pay one by one at both doors. At stops like this on non-SBS lines, like at Nostrand, the dwell times could go from 5 minutes to about 1.5 minutes (which is still impressive). 
 

A compromise for this is simple: all-door boarding with onboard payment at low and moderately-used stops, and for high-ridership stops, off board payment with all door boarding. This (Combined with correct street treatments) would allow buses to keep moving through busy areas served by major subway stations. The new off-board OMNY machines will be of a smaller footprint (compared to the current MetroCard Machines) and simply consist of an area to tap your card and a display screen saying if the pass is accepted. No receipts will be printed from the machines. At least three or four of them would be installed at each high-ridership stop, allowing for less waiting at the stop for pass validation.

Edited January 30, 2020 by JeremiahC99

[Lex]

6 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

My fear is that at very very busy stops, even with both doors open, this would still lead to dwell issues at the stops. This is not a problem on B46 SBS stops like at Avenue K, where the stop is moderately used (at least in the morning), and dwell is not a issue. Here is where folks should be able to board the bus and pay on board at any door.

However, at the subway station at Utica Avenue and Eastern Pkwy, a very popular transfer points, there are huge crowds exiting the trains there and this results in lots of people waiting at the bus stop for the buses to come in. Even with payment on board at every door, dwell times could potentially be an issue, with folks having to pay one by one at both doors. At stops like this on non-SBS lines, like at Nostrand, the dwell times could go from 5 minutes to about 1.5 minutes (which is still impressive). 
 

A compromise for this is simple: all-door boarding with onboard payment at low and moderately-used stops, and for high-ridership stops, off board payment with all door boarding. This (Combined with correct street treatments) would allow buses to keep moving through busy areas served by major subway stations.

That only leads to two conflicting pay formats, which is my issue with the B82 SBS at the Rockaway Parkway station.

[bobtehpanda]

15 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

My fear is that at very very busy stops, even with both doors open, this would still lead to dwell issues at the stops. This is not a problem on B46 SBS stops like at Avenue K, where the stop is moderately used (at least in the morning), and dwell is not a issue. Here is where folks should be able to board the bus and pay on board at any door.

Paris is a major city with heavy transit ridership that uses all door boarding with smartcards. Here is a picture of one of their buses:

You'll notice that adjacent to that one door there are *three* separate fare validators (the seated woman is resting her hand on one. You could have three or four validators per door on a bus and it would be fine since you don't have to stop at the first one to validate.

[checkmatechamp13]

21 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

On the one hand, the "plan" is being presented as only a draft (even though lots of people are treating it as the final plan).

 

On the other hand, maybe they should have held the workshops before developing the draft plan (as they did with the Bronx).

They had a bunch of meetings in May. Where have you been?

[BrooklynBus]

On 1/27/2020 at 7:12 PM, azspeedbullet said:

this is why they made bus routes longer and merged bus routes together

 By merging bus routes and making them longer, it becomes easier to cut service. 

[N6 Limited]

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

They had a bunch of meetings in May. Where have you been?

That's akin to those who completely ignore the C/O announcements and get angry when the train winds up on a different line or going express.

[N6 Limited]

2 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

 By merging bus routes and making them longer, it becomes easier to cut service. 

How, by increasing headway?

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, N6 Limited said:

How, by increasing headway?

Yes by increasing the headway. 

[N6 Limited]

12 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

Yes by increasing the headway. 

Makes sense, Have companies merged routes, then threw artics on them to reduce service?

[B35 via Church]

On 1/27/2020 at 7:12 PM, azspeedbullet said:

this is why they made bus routes longer and merged bus routes together

Ever think about just how "constrained" their budget is....

[B35 via Church]

18 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

They had a bunch of meetings in May. Where have you been?

Too busy trying to be snarky on this forum. That post is one of many examples.