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Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread


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1 hour ago, paulrivera said:

edit: Speaking of, where’s the old QM18 in all this?

Gone, like the QM36.

Just looked at the interactive map, and it looks like under the new system, the QM15 (QM168) is losing the last inbound and outbound trip on Saturdays <_<

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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They want the QT38 (Q2) to end at 10PM? I foresee complaints. 

QT7 and QT67 - Connect Eastern Queens to the (A) train. I like it.

QT71 (Q27/Q77) - Finally, a Springfield route all the way down, (and all the way up) with connections to other routes. 

QT73 - Francis Lewis route to (7) , interesting.

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2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

QM100/QM101 (existing QM25): Lol at using Metropolitan Avenue. LOL at using Williamsburg Bridge, Delancey Street, and the Bowery. Traffic suicide. Plus, this makes the travel time longer for people who use the bus between 69th Street and 85th Street, where most of the ridership is. Also, 85th Street is being eliminated (bad idea), and the 3:30 PM trip is being eliminated, which sees about 20 people (usually more). Also, the QM25 does not need to be split. People are not going to rely on hourly service (for the QM101). Also, Church street is no longer served. City Hall is a well used stop. Terrible idea all around.

 

QM169/QM170 (QM16/QM17): Indifferent about the elimination of stops in Howard Beach. 

- Nothing should be taking the Williamsburg Bridge (of all things) from Queens to get to Downtown Manhattan; that is also flat out, out of touch... Your only real/basic options are to take Essex, Allen, or Bowery to get to FiDi (or whatever it's called these days)... Like I stated earlier, the longer you're on Delancey, the worse off you're going to be... You can't do anything with that traffic over there by the bridge approach... IMO, the worse of those 3 choices (while ironically being the most direct) is Bowery....

- Eliminating stops in Howard Beach on the QM16/17 (to have the QM15 run down to 163rd) is going to put a bit of a dent in overall usage on those 2 routes.... If you told me there's 50 people on an outbound QM16 or QM17, I'd say at least 15 people are off that bus before it leaves mainland Queens.... Those QM168's are going to be even more crushloaded than they are now.... It's creating an imbalance in usage for no real reason....

I'll get to the rest of the express changes later.

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5 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

The QT40 (Q4) will go to Elmont Rd (which is good because it connects to the N1) but where will it turn?

I believe its to discern which route someone is talking about when making comments or suggestions. If you say "QT44" they know you're referencing the route from the redesign whether you comment on the interactive map, or mta.info, twitter, etc, and NOT the existing Q44.

I was thinking it was going to DH up to Hempstead Turnpike and Layover there. IIRC, people living in the area walk into Queens to catch the Q4 and X64 on 234th Street. They want to make a safe connection between the n1 and city transit.

 

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2 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

They want the QT38 (Q2) to end at 10PM? I foresee complaints. 

QT7 and QT67 - Connect Eastern Queens to the (A) train. I like it.

QT71 (Q27/Q77) - Finally, a Springfield route all the way down, (and all the way up) with connections to other routes. 

QT73 - Francis Lewis route to (7) , interesting.

The only route active during overnight hours is the n6. n22/24 is mostly for reverse peak commuters trying to get out of Nassau before Midnight.

 

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A pretty large chunk of NE Queens will also be losing access to Flushing.  The Q15/16/34 substitutes only run to Flushing during peak hours.  The other nearby options are grid options with no direct access to Flushing.  That won't go over too well.

20 Ave and the shopping centers along that area also don't seem to be served sufficiently.  The QT84 only runs 2-3 times an hour and severs connections to College Point and to the lower half of NE Queens without a lengthy transfer with such headways.

The waits for the QT15 in Flushing will be obscene.  It's already bad enough during the PM rush for the Q25/65.  Now that everything is on one line, it'll be sardines all the time.

Taking the Q44 off Union is a generally bad move that won't serve the people between Main and 20th any good.  That route gets a lot of intermediate passengers so unless QT16 service intervals are ramped up, there's going to be pretty bad overcrowding.

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I think it’s important to look at these bus routes in the color codes to the type of service they are. It seems like the colors indicate services that are local,  a limited variant, a non stop end to the subway, and an sbs form of route. I feel like everyone is looking at these routes like a traditional bus map but it seems like Queens is quite an experiment with service.  

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36 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

I think it’s important to look at these bus routes in the color codes to the type of service they are. It seems like the colors indicate services that are local,  a limited variant, a non stop end to the subway, and an sbs form of route. I feel like everyone is looking at these routes like a traditional bus map but it seems like Queens is quite an experiment with service.  

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

On that note, stop spacing is perfect. That's the beauty of a total rewrite of the network.

Service Levels (going off stop spacing):

SBS/Super Rapid

Rapid

Limited

Local

My only gripe? The minimum all-day headway should be 15 minutes on all routes during weekdays and 20 on weekends. If people are always seeing a bus, they will eventually take the bus. The new Brooklyn-Queens routes should definitely see a consistent 10 or less all day policy.

I expect them to be popular.

Especially if (hopefully when) this system gets all the necessary improvements to make service reliable.

This new plan, for someone who has lived in Queens (involuntarily but necessary), would make Queens a desirable place for me to live.

I'll see y'all at the Ridgewood Open House lol

Edited by LTA1992
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6 hours ago, R188 7857 said:

The QT81 is a terrible route. How many people from Whitestone would actually benefit from a bus connecting to Astoria? Chances are, most people are getting off or on at Flushing to go in one direction (either to/from Astoria, or to/from Whitestone). The worst part is, once there is traffic on one end of the route an entirely different group of people will suffer from it, going against what they set out to do...

Not to mention the new routes in Bayside are going to screw certain people over, with the lack of weekend and off-peak service. I don't understand what function the QT71 serves, as it connects to no subway stops at all. 

Generally, from how I see it, the way they re-did Northeast Queens was quite sloppy, connecting corridors that might not have much to relate to each other. I really think the number one thing should have been connecting people with the subway at all times, and with these new purple routes that are peak hours only, I think it might make things worse for a lot of people. 

 

Plus, Le Havre (the primary "population center" in Whitestone) gets access to Main Street (7) only during rush hours, while the 24/7 QT16 ends on the Cross Island service road within shouting distance of there.

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9 minutes ago, LTA1992 said:

On that note, stop spacing is perfect. That's the beauty of a total rewrite of the network.

 

Putting stops 2,000 feet or more apart is not "perfect" by any means. It makes no sense to design service by looking at populations with 0.25 mile of a stop and then space the stops farther than 0.25 mile apart.

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5 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Putting stops 2,000 feet or more apart is not "perfect" by any means. It makes no sense to design service by looking at populations with 0.25 mile of a stop and then space the stops farther than 0.25 mile apart.

You must be referring to one of the Rapid lines because the Locals hit more of a world standard averaging at every 1,300. Which is perfectly walkable within 5-7 minutes.

I'm starting to wonder who actually read the thing from top to bottom. So many aren't taking the route types (and thus, their explicitly stated purposes) into account. These colors have meaning.

Edited by LTA1992
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9 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I am LIVID about these proposals, but not at all surprised. It looks like Sunday service will be cut out entirely, and barely any Saturday service.  

First of all, from reading through this giant mess as best I could, I didn't see anything replacing the Glen Oaks portion of the QM5? Did I miss something? Closest thing I see is the QMT166, which I am assuming is incorrectly labeled as "previously the QM12", which runs from 188th Street to Midtown, and the QMT167 which is the QM6 up until 188th Street, then closed door to Manhattan. So they are trying to split service at the 188th street line, and get everyone from the QM5 onto the QM6 instead? 

And in terms of the locals, the Q46 is being split into one route that goes all the way into Forest Hills, and another that is basically the current Q46 with fewer stops west of 188th street?

I really don't understand the logic here. If they are assuming the same, or more, riders will be taking these buses, even with these stops cut out, everyone will just need to pile onto the remaining stops, which will have enormous lines. I can just picture the lines on Union and Parsons! Insanity! At least with more stops, buses can do some leap-frogging to even out loads. 

Ironically, these changes makes me want to but a car again! 

And, if they just have people tap on the doors using OMNY, the supposed benefit of all-door boarding will disappear. We might have to go back to SBS machines at every stop.

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28 minutes ago, LTA1992 said:

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

On that note, stop spacing is perfect. That's the beauty of a total rewrite of the network.

Service Levels (going off stop spacing):

SBS/Super Rapid

Rapid

Limited

Local

My only gripe? The minimum all-day headway should be 15 minutes on all routes during weekdays and 20 on weekends. If people are always seeing a bus, they will eventually take the bus. The new Brooklyn-Queens routes should definitely see a consistent 10 or less all day policy.

I expect them to be popular.

Especially if (hopefully when) this system gets all the necessary improvements to make service reliable.

This new plan, for someone who has lived in Queens (involuntarily but necessary), would make Queens a desirable place for me to live.

I'll see y'all at the Ridgewood Open House lol

I can’t speak on queens too much as I don’t live there, but bring how queens had overlapping buses because they had the most private and public buses I could really see them condensing the system and or starting a new.

i think the headway’s or wait times are a bit ehh.

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34 minutes ago, LTA1992 said:

You must be referring to one of the Rapid lines because the Locals hit more of a world standard averaging at every 1,300. Which is perfectly walkable within 5-7 minutes.

I'm starting to wonder who actually read the thing from top to bottom. So many aren't taking the route types (and thus, their explicitly stated purposes) into account. These colors have meaning.

 

I did read it. My neighborhood has only QT15 (Rapid) and QT30*/QT31 (Rush) with no local counterpart, so...

  • From 46th/Utopia to 46th/169th is 0.3 mile.
  • From 46th/169th to 46th/162nd is 0.4 mile.
  • From 46th/162nd to Flushing Hospital is 0.6 mile

 

Again, it is disingenuous at best to discuss populations within 0.25 mile of bus stops while spacing bus stops more than 0.25 mile apart.

 

* QT30 non-stop section is shown on 46th Avenue in the redesign document but on Northern Blvd in the Remix map.

Edited by Gotham Bus Co.
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8 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

Not even getting into the routes, let's just note how dumb it is to #1) rename routes that have had their current numbers for decades and decades and #2) release the entire report with the useless and confusing "QT" nomenclature that they've explicitly stated will not be used in the final. If you're not going to use the T, don't put in the T. This isn't rocket science. I don't know why they had the reinvent the wheel on the naming, and the Manhattan-centric numbering system sort of misses the point with how Queens works. Queens isn't a tourist borough – at least not most of it, where these buses are ridden. Nobody's thinking route 1-2-3 working Eastward from the city. These numbers have been there for decades, mostly coming from original streetcar and bus lines. Don't fix what isn't broken. That could've been the very simplest part.

 

8 hours ago, RailRunRob said:

Happened in the Bronx in 1984. And in Staten Island i remember the S7 now the S53. People adapt they always do.

The thing is, there is no reason to needlessly confuse people. For most routes, a majority of it consists of an old route. For instance, either have the QT14 be the Q10 or Q64. Have the QT17 be the Q12. The QT38 is almost the same as the Q2. The QT40 could be the Q4. The QT16 the Q25 or Q34.

The goal should be to confuse people as little as possible.

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3 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

 

The thing is, there is no reason to needlessly confuse people. For most routes, a majority of it consists of an old route. For instance, either have the QT14 be the Q10 or Q64. Have the QT17 be the Q12. The QT38 is almost the same as the Q2. The QT40 could be the Q4. The QT16 the Q25 or Q34.

The goal should be to confuse people as little as possible.

I think that’s true. The numbering is quite confusing.

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10 hours ago, 7-express said:

Mitchell-Linden folks won't be very happy.  The Q34 is gone and the replacement QT48 doesn't even stop anywhere along it's new Union alignment.  Only the QT16 and that's it.  They even got rid of the heavily used Union/26 Ave bus stop.  Someone really wasn't paying attention to bus stop utilization.

I knew the Q34 would be eliminated because it heavily duplicates the Q25, whatever resources the Q34 had will probably go to the Q25 or the new “QT16”. I don’t think it’s elimination is bad either because the Q25 and the Q20/Q44 is no more than a block or two away from the part that is exclusively served only by the Q34. Plus the route has no weekend service so residents have to rely on alternatives anyways. From what I know I don’t recall anyone fighting for weekend Q34 service either.

 

The Q50 going to LGA I don’t have too much of a problem with, but why via the Q48 route? Just have the Q19 cover that portion to Astoria Blvd. The Q50 should get on the Grand Central after it passes the Citi Field. That would make the route even more useful. Of course another thing that I worry about is Flushing traffic because it can still get really bad. 

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1 hour ago, 7-express said:

A pretty large chunk of NE Queens will also be losing access to Flushing.  The Q15/16/34 substitutes only run to Flushing during peak hours.  The other nearby options are grid options with no direct access to Flushing.  That won't go over too well.

20 Ave and the shopping centers along that area also don't seem to be served sufficiently.  The QT84 only runs 2-3 times an hour and severs connections to College Point and to the lower half of NE Queens without a lengthy transfer with such headways.

The waits for the QT15 in Flushing will be obscene.  It's already bad enough during the PM rush for the Q25/65.  Now that everything is on one line, it'll be sardines all the time.

Taking the Q44 off Union is a generally bad move that won't serve the people between Main and 20th any good.  That route gets a lot of intermediate passengers so unless QT16 service intervals are ramped up, there's going to be pretty bad overcrowding.

I actually agree with taking the Q44 away from Union Street and Parsons Blvd. The route goes all the way from Merrick Blvd, Archer Ave to the Bronx Zoo or Fordham under the proposal, let it bypass Whitestone and have other bus routes serve it. Most of the people who get on along that stretch (14th street to Roosevelt Ave) mostly are heading to and from Flushing anyways. This would decrease the run time for those heading to the Bronx and believe me there are tons of people who ride the Q44 from Jamaica all the way to the Bronx. The MTA just needs to bump up service on whatever local routes serve Union Street and Parsons Blvd and not be so quick to eliminate stops.

 

I’m still pissed off that the MTA had the nerve to propose that the new rendition of the Q64 go non stop from Main Street to Queens Blvd, ignoring the fact that the stops in between get heavily used. So they are already inconveniencing many and deterring ridership.

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..... Taking notes. Commentary later. However, Astoria to Downtown Brooklyn, Steinway to Williamsburg is also interesting.

I’m a bit lost with this Brownsville to Jamaica route. (From a Brooklyn perspective it’s a bit long and 101 Avenue is also a drag) 

A normal (L) to (J) trip from Brownsville to JAM is about 40 mins. and this route is a pre-requisite to whats going to happen with the Brooklyn portion of the B15 which means no JFK and Spring Creek. 

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