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Lawrence St

Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

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@BM5 via Woodhaven In the Draft Plan on page 45 (47/434 on the PDF) it mentions that "The QT1 is proposed to cross the Pulaski Bridge to connect Astoria, Long Island City, Greenpoint, Williamsburg, The Brooklyn Navy Yard, and Downtown Brooklyn". However, I don't think that actually means it will stop within the Navy Yard itself (they could've just said Fort Greene/Clinton Hill, but I guess they wanted to emphasize the proximity to the Navy Yard)

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I noticed a problem with the QT1, if it operates 24/7 overnight, how is the route going to be detoured if the Navy Yard is closed during the night?

31 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Well it doesn't say what the exact route is, but it says it stops at the Navy Yard. 

The QT1 isn't proposed to go through the Navy Yard.....

39 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

@B35 via Church I was thinking along the lines of people trying to avoid the chaos in Jamaica (like all the different bus bays at Jamaica Center and how the routes are split up, though I suppose you get used to it if you take certain routes often enough)

I dunno I'd say the (A) is noticably faster than the (J) (of course the fact that it is express certainly helps boost the illusion but I'd still say there is a noticable difference). The (J) takes about 50 minutes end-to-end (when I take it, it is usually the full route, all-or-nothing lol), whereas the (A) takes about 30-35 minutes from Lower Manhattan to Rockaway Blvd. Rockaway Blvd may be slightly further from most of SE Queens but I think it would still be a slight time savings and generate respectable ridership.

Jamaica Center (bus terminal) is just another day in the neighborhood for those folks.... Hell, even I'm used to the madness & I'm a Brooklynite.... Anyway, what I'm saying is that the (A) isn't that much faster than the (J) enough to where a SE Queens patron would bother taking the QT7 to the (A).... A bus ride to Jamaica Ctr. would be faster than anything running along Linden Blvd, etc..... Being that they're introducing these subway dash routes, there's just no way a ride on that QT7 would rival the QT40 if it's just about getting to a(ny) subway.... Any experimental belief contrary to that, the MTA's going to lose out on..... If it's about making the QT7 more attractive for SE Queens folks, it's going to have to serve more of Brooklyn & not just Gateway Mall.... Short of Brooklyn, Rockaway Blvd (A) won't nearly be enough....

15 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

If you look at the enlarged bus map in draft plan document, it shows it running on Park Avenue with the QT4. Also, where does it say it stops at the Navy Yard. All I see is the Downtown Brooklyn terminal as the only determined stop. 

That's the map I've been using all along (I've even extracted it & saved it as a .png file on the desktop) as a reference.... I can't be bothered with the remix map.....

Edited by B35 via Church

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2 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

@BM5 via Woodhaven In the Draft Plan on page 45 (47/434 on the PDF) it mentions that "The QT1 is proposed to cross the Pulaski Bridge to connect Astoria, Long Island City, Greenpoint, Williamsburg, The Brooklyn Navy Yard, and Downtown Brooklyn". However, I don't think that actually means it will stop within the Navy Yard itself (they could've just said Fort Greene/Clinton Hill, but I guess they wanted to emphasize the proximity to the Navy Yard)

Yeah that's what I meant. It only makes stops at the Flushing Av & Clinton Av gates, but none of the other ones which doesn't really connect people with places like Wegmans in the Navy Yard.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

....However, I don't think that actually means it will stop within the Navy Yard itself (they could've just said Fort Greene/Clinton Hill, but I guess they wanted to emphasize the proximity to the Navy Yard)

  That's exactly the point of that... It's simple advertising.

5 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Yeah that's what I meant. It only makes stops at the Flushing Av & Clinton Av gates, but none of the other ones which doesn't really connect people with places like Wegmans in the Navy Yard.

...and what would that have to do with the QT1 being 24/7 & having to be detoured?

This just sounds like you're backtracking.

Edited by B35 via Church

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Just now, B35 via Church said:

...and what would that have to do with the QT1 being 24/7 & having to be detoured?

This just sounds like you're backtracking.

Well because I thought it was taking over the B67 routing (hence why I asked that question) and then realized it was a modified version of the B62 routing.

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1 minute ago, Lawrence St said:

Well because I thought it was taking over the B67 routing (hence why I asked that question) and then realized it was a modified version of the B62 routing.

Lol..... If that were the case, you'd have asked if they're proposing the thing run through the Navy Yard, but alright....

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On 5/24/2020 at 11:58 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

I remember it being brought up at the meeting back in Jamaica in January. I could've misunderstood but I believe they mentioned they were closing it.

Hopefully they do extend the QT47 to Lefferts AirTrain or Federal Circle. The proposed terminal is in the middle of nothing in particular (I believe there is a Sanitation Garage around there). 

And yeah they said Jamaica/Merrick was just a general idea for where they would terminate those buses that used to end at 165th Street. As I said I could be wrong but my understanding was they planned to close that terminal.

Thinking about it, it almost seems like they are thinking of Linden Blvd in Queens the same way as Linden Blvd in ENY (a super-wide street where the concept of a super-limited might make sense). The thing I do like about this route is that it makes it easier to get from SE Queens to Downtown Brooklyn & Lower Manhattan via the (A) instead of forcing everyone to go up to Jamaica for the (J) or LIRR (I know with Freedom Ticket it makes the LIRR more attractive than before but I still). I'd be curious to see how much of the demand from that portion of SE Queens is actually for Jamaica itself vs. people who would be willing to (or even preferring to) transfer in another area. 

They are renovating 165th, not closing it. By through-routing routes on either side of 165th, the terminal can be renovated.

http://web.mta.info/capitaldashboard/allframenew_head.html?PROJNUM=t6120420&PLTYPE=1&DISPLAYALL=Y


Project:    T6120420    
Description:    Jamaica Bus Terminal    
Category:    Depots    
Element:    Depot Improvements    
xxxxxxxxxx
...
This project will support efforts to reconfigure the Jamaica bus terminal located in Queens. The existing terminal is shared by NYC Transit, MTA Bus, and Long Island Bus. The reconstruction will improve pedestrian and passenger safety by eliminating bus back-up moves in the terminal and controlling pedestrian traffic in the terminal area; this work will be addressed in a future capital program.

 

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9 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

They are renovating 165th, not closing it. By through-routing routes on either side of 165th, the terminal can be renovated.

http://web.mta.info/capitaldashboard/allframenew_head.html?PROJNUM=t6120420&PLTYPE=1&DISPLAYALL=Y


Project:    T6120420    
Description:    Jamaica Bus Terminal    
Category:    Depots    
Element:    Depot Improvements    
xxxxxxxxxx
...
This project will support efforts to reconfigure the Jamaica bus terminal located in Queens. The existing terminal is shared by NYC Transit, MTA Bus, and Long Island Bus. The reconstruction will improve pedestrian and passenger safety by eliminating bus back-up moves in the terminal and controlling pedestrian traffic in the terminal area; this work will be addressed in a future capital program.

 

Which reminds me.

Word is that NICE Bus is getting kicked out of the terminal once it's all said and done to make way for articulated buses.

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4 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Which reminds me.

Word is that NICE Bus is getting kicked out of the terminal once it's all said and done to make way for articulated buses.

Where would NICE go?

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1 minute ago, Union Tpke said:

Where would NICE go?

Not sure. Nothing concrete has been spoken about that yet. I doubt they'll actually get kicked out.

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7 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Not sure. Nothing concrete has been spoken about that yet. I doubt they'll actually get kicked out.

Do you think the redesign is dead? That is my bet.

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Just now, Union Tpke said:

Do you think the redesign is dead? That is my bet.

Nah.....the Bronx Redesign is ready to be implemented. At this point, it's a matter of when everything will happen.

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3 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

Do you think the redesign is dead? That is my bet.

I see no reason for that to be the case. They even said they would consider doing virtual meetings to supplement the in-person meetings when things get back to normal. I think at this point their planning staff is just so overwhelmed with coronavirus-related service issues that they aren't even bothering with virtual meetings, but once this blows over, the redesign will be back on track.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I see no reason for that to be the case. They even said they would consider doing virtual meetings to supplement the in-person meetings when things get back to normal. I think at this point their planning staff is just so overwhelmed with coronavirus-related service issues that they aren't even bothering with virtual meetings, but once this blows over, the redesign will be back on track.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are "finishing up" with the Queens redesign final plan and release it by the end of July.

Edited by MysteriousBtrain

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they are "finishing up" with the Queens redesign final plan and release it by the end of July.

I would. Like I said with all the constant service changes I would imagine their planning staff is pretty busy. And they did promise no final draft would be released until they got through all the meetings, and if they went back on that promise, the public would throw a fit.

Edited by checkmatechamp13
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11 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Nah.....the Bronx Redesign is ready to be implemented. At this point, it's a matter of when everything will happen.

 

7 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I see no reason for that to be the case. They even said they would consider doing virtual meetings to supplement the in-person meetings when things get back to normal. I think at this point their planning staff is just so overwhelmed with coronavirus-related service issues that they aren't even bothering with virtual meetings, but once this blows over, the redesign will be back on track.

 

7 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they are "finishing up" with the Queens redesign final plan and release it by the end of July.

 

7 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I would. Like I said with all the constant service changes I would imagine their planning staff is pretty busy. And they did promise no final draft would be released until they got through all the meetings, and if they went back on that promise, the public would throw a fit.

There was a press release issued. Once all of this settles down, the (MTA) will make announcements about community engagement. They aren't implementing the Queens redesign until they finish getting feedback. I deal with folks in community affairs. There would be severe pushback if they did that. All eyes are on the (MTA) now. The last thing they want to do is piss off elected officials who in turn could turn around and look to withhold funding in the future or pass legislation could impact the (MTA) .

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Ìf they decide to implement the Bronx plan, do you think they will have to hold another public hearing (either real or virtual) given the time that has passed? 

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5 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Ìf they decide to implement the Bronx plan, do you think they will have to hold another public hearing (either real or virtual) given the time that has passed? 

I don’t know. they did hold one in February. I would assume not since if I remember correctly, before the pandemic, it was decided that the the plan was to implement the local bus changes in Fall 2020 and the second version of the Express Bus Changes would be released around then for implementation later at some point. I would guess if one was held it would be a virtual one. 

Still don’t like the way they treated the Queens and Bronx Redesigns with completely different approaches to how they were conducted. They all should either be slight changes or wholesale redesigns, not whatever they feel like for each borough. 

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On 6/1/2020 at 5:52 PM, Cait Sith said:

Which reminds me.

Word is that NICE Bus is getting kicked out of the terminal once it's all said and done to make way for articulated buses.

Not a smart move because NICE knows that their commuters come from  the 169th Street and 179th Street Station on Hillside Avenue. That mile long line around the block are n6, and n22/24 riders mixed in with Queens residents waiting for their bus during peak hour. The Q6, Q8, and Q41 are the only Queens lines that I see get high usage for Sutphin. One thing I hate about the ReDesign is that there's too much routes going thru Downtown Jamaica just to get to the Sutphin, Parsons, or Hillside.

Hillside is seeing more increase in bus ridership because people want to get off as early as 179th Street with 165 being reserved for connections to Sutphin. In short, people are now going out of their way to avoid Parsons Archer with the n4, Q5, Q85, and Q111 and 113/114  having the longest line. 

Even on the Q24/54/56, people merely want to get off as early as Jamaica Railroad Station with no desire to transfer at 153rd or Parsons. Queens East of the Van Wyck is far too fluid in their approach to bus and subways for kicking buses out for curbside pickups. Ironically, the n6 with articulated are used during peak hours with trips beginning at Merrick and 89th. It's been so successful that NICE wants articulated on the n4 during peak hours. 

In short, people merely use Jamaica for trying to get to Flushing while avoiding the Subway or the bus. I've gotten used to Fredrick Wells trying to market the n4 and NICE anticipating his and Yuki's every word since they repeat what they hear from Pine Power. I still do not know how the MTA is marketing their express buses to people who were already promised the X68, X64, and QM21. NICE cut their buses at the city line because they know Queens Residents love to use the n22/24 for a fast ride into 179th while the Q43 is lounging on Hillside Avenue and the Q36 takes forever to get to Floral Park. I have to be careful because Oakland Gardens might want the Q75 back.

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On 6/1/2020 at 5:42 PM, Union Tpke said:

They are renovating 165th, not closing it. By through-routing routes on either side of 165th, the terminal can be renovated.

http://web.mta.info/capitaldashboard/allframenew_head.html?PROJNUM=t6120420&PLTYPE=1&DISPLAYALL=Y


.....This project will support efforts to reconfigure the Jamaica bus terminal located in Queens. The existing terminal is shared by NYC Transit, MTA Bus, and Long Island Bus. The reconstruction will improve pedestrian and passenger safety by eliminating bus back-up moves in the terminal and controlling pedestrian traffic in the terminal area; this work will be addressed in a future capital program.

Sounds to me like they're gonna barricade off the Merrick side of the terminal between 89th av & 90th av, at minimum.... If the implementation of this renovation is in line with what they're proposing for the Queens bus network redesign, then every single bus entering the (renovated) terminal would have to enter through the part of the terminal the Q6/8/9/41 currently exits from.... Nothing coming up from areas immediately south of the terminal is proposed to end at the terminal:

  • Q6 (QT20) continues up Sutphin, to Hillside, etc....
  • Q8 (QT5) continues up Sutphin, to Hillside, to terminate...
  • Q9 (QT47) continues up Sutphin, to Hillside, etc....
  • Q41 would loom irrelevant in all this, as it would be phased out...

Not for nothing, but it is a waste of time the way the Q6/8/9/41 has to access the terminal, coming up from Jamaica av....

But yeah, in accordance to what's being proposed in the bus network redesign, everything/anything entering the (renovated) terminal would be of buses descending down from Hillside to access it (with the 89th av. side of the terminal continuing to be the part of the terminal buses would exit from)..... So yeah, the idea behind the renovation seems to be that of having buses through routed through the terminal....

On 6/1/2020 at 5:57 PM, Union Tpke said:
On 6/1/2020 at 5:52 PM, Cait Sith said:

Word is that NICE Bus is getting kicked out of the terminal once it's all said and done to make way for articulated buses.

Where would NICE go?

IDK, I believe NICE wants to have all its routes (that currently serve 165th terminal) terminate at 179th subway.... Obvious problem is that it's infeasible.

On 6/1/2020 at 6:07 PM, Union Tpke said:

Do you think the redesign is dead? That is my bet.

...then you'd have a high risk of being in the red.

What we've been going through in the past couple months in this city/country/whatever, is the perfect storm (so to speak) for the MTA to go about accomplishing what it truly wants to with these redesigns.... The best we can realistically hope for as riders, is a prolonged delaying of the inevitable (pushing back of any deadlines/dates they internally have or whatever).....

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3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Sounds to me like they're gonna barricade off the Merrick side of the terminal between 89th av & 90th av, at minimum.... If the implementation of this renovation is in line with what they're proposing for the Queens bus network redesign, then every single bus entering the (renovated) terminal would have to enter through the part of the terminal the Q6/8/9/41 currently exits from.... Nothing coming up from areas immediately south of the terminal is proposed to end at the terminal:

  • Q6 (QT20) continues up Sutphin, to Hillside, etc....
  • Q8 (QT5) continues up Sutphin, to Hillside, to terminate...
  • Q9 (QT47) continues up Sutphin, to Hillside, etc....
  • Q41 would loom irrelevant in all this, as it would be phased out...

Not for nothing, but it is a waste of time the way the Q6/8/9/41 has to access the terminal, coming up from Jamaica av....

But yeah, in accordance to what's being proposed in the bus network redesign, everything/anything entering the (renovated) terminal would be of buses descending down from Hillside to access it (with the 89th av. side of the terminal continuing to be the part of the terminal buses would exit from)..... So yeah, the idea behind the renovation seems to be that of having buses through routed through the terminal....

IDK, I believe NICE wants to have all its routes (that currently serve 165th terminal) terminate at 179th subway.... Obvious problem is that it's infeasible.

...then you'd have a high risk of being in the red.

What we've been going through in the past couple months in this city/country/whatever, is the perfect storm (so to speak) for the MTA to go about accomplishing what it truly wants to with these redesigns.... The best we can realistically hope for as riders, is a prolonged delaying of the inevitable (pushing back of any deadlines/dates they internally have or whatever).....

Shouldn't they end at Parsons Blvd (F) temporarily until the terminal is renovated. (according the redesign) Funny they (MTA) have the QT55 (nee Q55) ending at the terminal

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Shouldn't they end at Parsons Blvd (F) temporarily until the terminal is renovated. (according the redesign) Funny they (MTA) have the QT55 (nee Q55) ending at the terminal

Nah, they're proposing the QT55 terminate where the current Q54/Q56 does, at 170th/Jamaica...

Anyway, as it pertains to the QT5/20/47, my point is that they're not having those routes run to the terminal at all..... To the question of if they should or not, I would say no - being that the proposal has buses running along Hillside, east of Sutphin.....

Edited by B35 via Church

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Posted (edited)

NICE has already gotten in trouble with Nassau County Residents for focusing primarily on Nassau Hub and Queens Residents. They've been more focused on eliminating bus stops to speed of the commute. If it wasn't for Floral Park getting angry over the LIRR Third Track AND construction at Belmont Park then they would've eliminated all those stops along Jericho Turnpike between Tyson Avenue and Little Neck Parkway on the n24. The only problem is that those people are taking it over the Q36 to get into Jamaica and Floral Park recently got in trouble with Nassau County for using a Police Helicopter to spy on Belmont Park's development.  I've also heard that Helena Willams work with NICE on some level. I merely thought Cuomo was going to scare Byford off into Nassau. In short it's too much work for NICE to try to save Helena Williams AND Phil Eng from Nassau County Residents while serving Queens. Nassau County already scared of Nowakowski over the bluster at Belmont Park during the races. 

Ironically the n6 is the only route shown SRO from carrying people trying to get out of Belmont Park  to 179th Street during the Belmont Stakes. 

Edited by NY1635
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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

^ This is what drugs does to your brain cells.

I've admitted to Cait Sith that the Transit Committee members know Yuki, Fredrick Wells, and Pine Power are personally. I attended the meetings and I've seen them appear multiple times with Matt Kamper. They ask the same questions. NICE merely hires a court stenographer to take notes as to keep Pine Power in the dark. They hate Pine Power since he almost got ran over by a bus twice: an out of service one in Freeport and the n20H at the Roslyn Viaduct when he was filming on both occasions. They knew he films his videos at Mineola Intermodal opposite of the Bus Terminal AND at the Newbridge Road under Hicksville LIRR right by the n48/49 stand. He tends to outright omit that Nassau County's Executive building is at Mineola on Franklin Avenue and is served by the n40/41 or the Courthouse on Old Country Road right by the n22/24 stand stop.

A lot of LIB Drivers were laid off or retired when Mangano was in charge of the county.  He's currently on trail for corruption out in Islip waiting to be face a verdict unrelated to the handling of NICE. Laura Curran on primarily because her opponent wanted to do away with the Private Company and find a new person to run it. Nassau Residents do not understand that the county owns the fleet and garages and merely hires a private company to run the buses for them.  A lot of bus drivers admit that the MTA is not coming back because they hate Nassau County Residents.

 

Edited by NY1635

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