Why are HEETs not more widespread?

[shiznit1987]

There's a very simple question burning in my mind:

 

Why didn't the MTA decide to go with HEETs as the default turnstile of choice? To me, it seems like the perfect solution: On the one hand, this reduces the need for more police/citizen interaction and on the other is nearly un-defeatable as a fare control mechanism. It's clear that the old broken windows model of policing is socially untenable...however the MTA cannot simply let the subway "be free" as it's not financially sustainable. 

 

 

[SubwayFan3000]

It is all Corruption, Lobbyism and Bureaucracy is the reason why MTA cannot let subway "be free".

[B35 via Church]

Why are HEET's not more widespread?

IDK.. Probably has something to do with not wanting to get "hit" on the corner of law$uits av & co$t inefficiency street......

[P3F]

HEETs have a lower capacity than normal turnstiles, and take up more space. So, you would have a lot more crowding at the turnstiles after a train lets passengers out.

[shiznit1987]

34 minutes ago, subwayfan1998 said:

It is all Corruption, Lobbyism and Bureaucracy is the reason why MTA cannot let subway "be free".

While all three exist in abundance to be sure, no, that's actually not the reason the subway is not free. I believe NYCT's operating budget is 8-9 Billion dollars with a little over half of it covered by fares. Now, I do believe the city could conceivably carve out a 4-5 billion dollar slice to make the subways free but we need to consider what cuts would need to be made to make that work. 

[Jsunflyguy]

1 hour ago, P3F said:

HEETs have a lower capacity than normal turnstiles, and take up more space. So, you would have a lot more crowding at the turnstiles after a train lets passengers out.

Wrong, it's because the is evil and everything is a conspiracy; no one in the whole company has an IQ above room temperature in an igloo. So no one *ever* thought of just putting in HEETs everywhere and firing all the Token Booth Clerks. /s

Edited February 3, 2020 by Jsunflyguy
typo

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Why are HEET's not more widespread?

IDK.. Probably has something to do with not wanting to get "hit" on the corner of law$uits av & co$t inefficiency street......

Sounds like a nice place, is Celino & Barnes 800-888-8888 included?

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

2 hours ago, shiznit1987 said:

There's a very simple question burning in my mind:

 

Why didn't the MTA decide to go with HEETs as the default turnstile of choice? To me, it seems like the perfect solution: On the one hand, this reduces the need for more police/citizen interaction and on the other is nearly un-defeatable as a fare control mechanism. It's clear that the old broken windows model of policing is socially untenable...however the MTA cannot simply let the subway "be free" as it's not financially sustainable. 

 

 

I raised a similar concern in Subway Off-Topic. At this point, with all the dysfunction in the MTA, it's not a good standalone move. What needs to change is the guidance previously given by Cy Vance with regards to fare evasion, which is a blow to any attempt to curtail it. IMHO, I felt that service needed to be cut where fare evasion was most rampant (great business move, but advocacy groups will cry racist and poverty discrimination). Absent any radical intervention, y'all will suffer the same fate as St. Clare's.

Further, the management structure of the MTA makes it seem alien to both the city that depends on it and the suburbanites who are forced to fund it. Let's be frank - the MTA isn't going to get better. I see you guys going bankrupt in three years, tops.

Edited February 3, 2020 by MassTransitHonchkrow
some typos, context clues clarification

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

My 2 home stations I use in Queens both had one or all HEET banks converted to regular turnstiles in the last 3-4 years. It was definitely a capacity issue, since they are both slower and people wont swipe until it stops spinning. 

To combat farebeating and maintain capacity/space, a London or San Francisco style gate should be considered as old turnstiles are replaced

[R68OnBroadway]

To combat farebeating, couldn’t they replace the current bar with a chest-high door that you push open like a regular door? Seems like an easy fix to prevent hopping over/ducking under while still being a rather cheap option.

[Around the Horn]

45 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

To combat farebeating, couldn’t they replace the current bar with a chest-high door that you push open like a regular door? Seems like an easy fix to prevent hopping over/ducking under while still being a rather cheap option.

That's basically what London has

[Italianstallion]

17 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

That's basically what London has

Looks pretty easy to duck under.

[Jsunflyguy]

13 minutes ago, Italianstallion said:

Looks pretty easy to duck under.

Any able bodied person would be able to climb the card reader and simply walk over.

[R68OnBroadway]

2 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

That's basically what London has

I'd probably go for a larger design in terms of height- I'd probably leave 6 inches of room at the bottom and maybe have the top of the turnstile be around 4 ft 6 inches or so.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

I would take the London design and make it about 6ft in height (and something built over it with a 7' minimum for head clearance and to avoid people people being able to climb over). They also have to be able to withstand a force of x amount of pounds in case someone tries to run into it like a football player. 

[Eric B]

Probably a combination of that with the piece we have that arches over the entrance (which was designed to make jumping the turnstile harder, but of course still leaves too much room). And yes, the bottom of it would have to be lower, and yes, make sure it's strong enough ).

[bobtehpanda]

On 2/3/2020 at 1:50 PM, Jsunflyguy said:

Any able bodied person would be able to climb the card reader and simply walk over.

Check yourself before you wreck yourself:

 

[Mtatransit]

I mean, they are implementing OMNY, might as well replace the turnstiles too.

Those high door turnstiles will be ideal. I also would consider start looking at making people tap out of the system too.  This way people literally have to fare beat twice.

An ADA Accessible turnstile would be great, to replace the emergency door.

 

Its an one time investment, much cheaper in the long term than hiring 500 police officers. But again, MTA is literally a puppet to the governor.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Mtatransit

[kosciusko]

Because they are garbage and everyone hates them

[LTA1992]

On 2/5/2020 at 2:24 AM, bobtehpanda said:

Check yourself before you wreck yourself:

 

Parisian farebeaters must be a whole different breed because they definitely DON'T get stuck lol.

Hell, it was them that taught me that faregates won't stop people from skipping out on paying.

[shiznit1987]

11 hours ago, kosciusko said:

Because they are garbage and everyone hates them

Why would that be?

[bobtehpanda]

1 hour ago, shiznit1987 said:

Why would that be?

They're slow, they're rusty, and they're not particularly friendly to anyone with a stroller, luggage, the handicapped, small children, etc.

It makes you feel like you're going to jail instead of going to work. 

[Lex]

15 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

They're slow, they're rusty, and they're not particularly friendly to anyone with a stroller, luggage, the handicapped, small children, etc.

It makes you feel like you're going to jail instead of going to work. 

This.

Getting rid of them at Flatbush Avenue made the Avenue H entrance far more tolerable.

[Deucey]

On 2/3/2020 at 1:47 PM, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

My 2 home stations I use in Queens both had one or all HEET banks converted to regular turnstiles in the last 3-4 years. It was definitely a capacity issue, since they are both slower and people wont swipe until it stops spinning. 

To combat farebeating and maintain capacity/space, a London or San Francisco style gate should be considered as old turnstiles are replaced

Paris is better - they’re taller.

[bobtehpanda]

IIRC a particular criticism of the BART ones is that they like pincering people's heads, which is a lot worse than walking into a closed door.