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Via Garibaldi 8

Queens Bus Redesign Slammed by Forest Hills Residents at Community Board Meeting

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Queens Bus Redesign Slammed by Forest Hills Residents at Community Board Meeting

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Q23 Bus (Google Maps)

Feb. 14, 2020 By Allie Griffin

Rego Park and Forest Hills residents packed a community board meeting Wednesday night to denounce the MTA’s Queens bus network redesign draft plan.

The residents decried the loss of bus stops and cuts to existing bus lines under the contentious plan that overhauls the complete bus network in the borough.

Attendees of the meeting — many of whom are seniors or disabled — said the longer walks between bus stops and the greater need for transfers between bus lines would make it nearly impossible for them to get around. The MTA plans to change the average distance between bus stops from 850 feet to 1,300 feet across Queens.

Council Member Karen Koslowitz came to the Community Board 6 meeting and called the draft plan “unacceptable.”

She took issue with the fact that riders would need to take multiple buses to reach their destination —instead of just one. For instance, the Q23 route that runs north-south through Forest Hills would be scrapped and residents would need to take two buses to get from either end of the neighborhood.

“I’m against this plan because this plan doesn’t take in the needs of my community,” Koslowitz said.

“We have elderly people who take the bus…we have disabled people and we have children who take the bus,” she added. “We don’t want to send our people on a wild goose chase.”

More than 19 percent of Forest Hills and Rego Park residents are 65 years or older, according to census data.

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The Queens Community Board 6 meeting was packed with residents concerned over the MTA bus redesign plan (Queens Post Photo)

Several residents criticized the MTA’s changes to the Q23 and Q60 bus lines under the draft plan, which was released on Dec. 31.

The Q60 bus route — that currently runs along Queen Boulevard and over the Queensboro Bridge — would no longer go into Manhattan. The line would become the QT60 and end near the Hunters Point South ferry terminal in Long Island City, said MTA transit planner Julian Bautista-Rojas.

Board member Jean Silva, who is disabled and uses a personal mobility scooter to get around, said she takes the Q60 to get to Manhattan’s Hospital for Special Surgery, where she receives treatment.

Silva takes the Q60 bus because it drops her off nearby the hospital and because many subway stations are not ADA-accessible — but under the draft bus plan, she wouldn’t have the option.

Instead she’d have to get off the QT60 bus in Long Island City and ride across the Queensboro Bridge pedestrian pathway on her scooter — or take the subway from LIC to Manhattan and transfer to another bus in Manhattan to reach the hospital just on the other side of the bridge, she said.

Another disabled board member shared the same opinion as Silva.

“I’m disabled,” Pat Morgan said. “This will make it impossible for me to go into Manhattan easily.”

QT60.jpg

QT60 Proposal (MTA)

Many Forest Hills commuters at the meeting were also displeased by the MTA’s proposal to cut the existing Q23 line, which runs from East Elmhurst to Forest Hills.

The redesign splits the existing route into two separate lines — the QT11 and QT87.

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The current Q23 bus route (MTA)

To get between the northern and southern parts of Forest Hills, across Queens Boulevard, commuters would have to transfer from the QT11 to the QT87 at the Forest Hills-71st Avenue E/F/M/R station.

Instead of crossing Queens Boulevard and heading south like current Q23 buses, the QT11 heads east to Fresh Meadows.

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Meanwhile the QT87 picks up the southern end of the current Q23 route, traveling from Forest Hills, south of Queens Boulevard, farther into Queens, to Little Neck — where several people at the meeting said no one from the community goes to.

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The proposed QT87 route under the Queens Bus Network Redesign draft plan (MTA)

The proposed QT87 route also utilizes Ascan Avenue, a private road within Forest Hills Gardens.

Several members of the private community showed up at the community board meeting to denounce a public city bus using the privately-maintained street.

“I have to assume that the Q87 routing on Ascan Avenue is an inadvertent error, is an oversight because these are private streets and private property,” said Tony Barsamian, president of the Forest Hills Gardens Corporation that oversees the community’s upkeep.

Nearly every person in the room had issues with the draft plan, while the two MTA reps presented it as a “faster, more reliable” bus network. The plan, they said, aims to create straighter bus routes, end redundant routes and cut bus stops that are too close together in order to provide faster trips for riders.

The MTA representatives repeatedly assured the packed room that they were there to gather feedback in order to make adjustments to the current draft plan.

The agency said at the time it released the draft plan that it would have a final plan by the end of the second quarter. However, the MTA representatives at the community board meeting said there is no set timeline at this point.

The draft plan and map are available online.

Source: https://foresthillspost.com/queens-bus-redesign-slammed-by-forest-hills-residents-at-community-board-meeting?fbclid=IwAR1nFHU_SLbIYK_lxHzxHYIDUNroUminDIB9lzGpxzKmuCAdUt-s7NiAX4A

 

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21 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The proposed QT87 route also utilizes Ascan Avenue, a private road within Forest Hills Gardens.

Several members of the private community showed up at the community board meeting to denounce a public city bus using the privately-maintained street.

“I have to assume that the Q87 routing on Ascan Avenue is an inadvertent error, is an oversight because these are private streets and private property,” said Tony Barsamian, president of the Forest Hills Gardens Corporation that oversees the community’s upkeep.

 

So if they don’t want buses on the wider Ascan Avenue, what’s the next alternative. Austin Street is narrow and congested, so would they like it if the buses bypass the Forest Hills LIRR station vía Queens Blvd and Yellowstone Blvd?

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11 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

So if they don’t want buses on the wider Ascan Avenue, what’s the next alternative. Austin Street is narrow and congested, so would they like it if the buses bypass the Forest Hills LIRR station vía Queens Blvd and Yellowstone Blvd?

Ascan Avenue is a private street, that’s the point, and Forest Hills Gardens is an entirely private neighborhood, so that means that unless the (MTA) reaches some agreement to have their buses enter and use the private streets of that neighborhood, then they are not allowed to do so. You make it sounds like they are complaining just because. The people that live there pay for the upkeep of the streets and have the right to dictate what is and isn’t allowed there. That’s why it is a private community.

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17 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Ascan Avenue is a private street, that’s the point, and Forest Hills Gardens is an entirely private neighborhood, so that means that unless the (MTA) reaches some agreement to have their buses enter and use the private streets of that neighborhood, then they are not allowed to do so. You make it sounds like they are complaining just because. The people that live there pay for the upkeep of the streets and have the right to dictate what is and isn’t allowed there. That’s why it is a private community.

Well I do get the complaints, but I was just asking if there was an alternative that would avoid these private streets. I know for a fact that public buses can’t use private streets without permission from the community, which is why the people there are complaining. I just wanted to know what the alternatives are to satisfy the private community.

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The QT87 section south of Queens Boulevard appears particularly useless, because not only have they connected portions with the least of ridership on that section of the Q23, but they're also rerouting away from where people are getting on. With that said, the QT86 south of Roosevelt Avenue can stay as it is, because that route pattern looks more beneficial than the existing Q20A/B (the Q44 basically has Jamaica ridership on lock). I've also mentioned it before, but the area around Yellowstone Boulevard should have a local bus route. The Q11/21 and the Q23 are way too far from people living just west of Yellowstone, and the walk to the train is also quite a bit (to 67th Avenue or 71st Avenue). I remember when I lived in that area over 10 years ago, it was difficult to to navigate in the winters because of the hills (both up and down) on the way to the subway. Someone like might be physically able to do so, but an elderly person doing that, absolutely not. 

Another thing that I was also concerned about was the Q60 diversion to Hunters Point instead of Midtown. Yes, the QT61 covers some existing Q32 riders and all Q60 riders from Sunnyside, but there are also quite a number of people using the Q60 to go into Manhattan from points east of Sunnyside. It's incredibly vitable since for many, that's the only direct option into Manhattan, and the sections which it runs above the QBL, lots of people use the bus because the stations aren't ADA accessible. The QT61 would be absolutely useless for all those people. 

Perssonally, I think the Q60 should remain going to 2nd Avenue, while the QT75 and QT61 route switched in Queens. Anyone going to Court Square or Hunters Point from Sunnyside will most likely be taking the (7) anyway. The QT87 as it is is bound to fail because the only notable location it goes to is the 71st Ave station, everything else on the route is mainly residential areas. 

3 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

So if they don’t want buses on the wider Ascan Avenue, what’s the next alternative. Austin Street is narrow and congested, so would they like it if the buses bypass the Forest Hills LIRR station vía Queens Blvd and Yellowstone Blvd?

The QT86 already is running via Yellowstone, so that's not necessary. 

Forest Hills Gardens extends to portions of 71st Avenue, so it may or may not be problematic if buses are placed on 71st Avenue (which is much wider than Ascan Avenue). However, having a route on 71st Avenue is also counterproductive. The QT87 should serve 69th Avenue as the Q23 currently does, and either use Exeter/Fleet Streets to 71st Avenue, or use the entire existing Q23 route south of Queens Boulevard. 

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17 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The QT87 section south of Queens Boulevard appears particularly useless, because not only have they connected portions with the least of ridership on that section of the Q23, but they're also rerouting away from where people are getting on.

The QT87 as it is is bound to fail because the only notable location it goes to is the 71st Ave station, everything else on the route is mainly residential areas. 

Forest Hills Gardens extends to portions of 71st Avenue, so it may or may not be problematic if buses are placed on 71st Avenue (which is much wider than Ascan Avenue). However, having a route on 71st Avenue is also counterproductive. The QT87 should serve 69th Avenue as the Q23 currently does, and either use Exeter/Fleet Streets to 71st Avenue, or use the entire existing Q23 route south of Queens Boulevard. 

The QT87 follows the lower ridership portion of the Q23 for that exact reason. The entire route connects lower ridership areas, Little Neck on the Q36, the Q30 east of Springfield Blvd, as well as 73 Ave. Because the MTA wants buses to avoid narrow streets they have it avoiding the current streets the Q23 uses like Austin St, Burns St, and 69 Ave. People would be expected to walk to either the QT86 or QT87 from 69 Ave, or just walk to Queens Blvd. The MTA would probably have routed the QT87 straight down 71 Ave to Metropolitan, but chose Ascan Ave instead as the buses cannot pass under the LIRR trestle. They specifically don’t have the QT87 making stops in Forest Hills Gardens, so it was clearly not for ridership purposes. I hope the MTA and neighborhood can work out an agreement to let the buses just drive through, as it would make a much quicker trip from Queens Blvd to Union Tpke than via the current Q23, and would only be around 3 buses an hour in each direction at most, due to the 18 min peak and 30-60 min off-peak headways.

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2 hours ago, jaf0519 said:

The QT87 follows the lower ridership portion of the Q23 for that exact reason. The entire route connects lower ridership areas, Little Neck on the Q36, the Q30 east of Springfield Blvd, as well as 73 Ave. Because the MTA wants buses to avoid narrow streets they have it avoiding the current streets the Q23 uses like Austin St, Burns St, and 69 Ave. People would be expected to walk to either the QT86 or QT87 from 69 Ave, or just walk to Queens Blvd. The MTA would probably have routed the QT87 straight down 71 Ave to Metropolitan, but chose Ascan Ave instead as the buses cannot pass under the LIRR trestle. They specifically don’t have the QT87 making stops in Forest Hills Gardens, so it was clearly not for ridership purposes. I hope the MTA and neighborhood can work out an agreement to let the buses just drive through, as it would make a much quicker trip from Queens Blvd to Union Tpke than via the current Q23, and would only be around 3 buses an hour in each direction at most, due to the 18 min peak and 30-60 min off-peak headways.

Just because the streets are rather narrow, doesn't mean that they should be streamlined away. 69th Avenue is in the "middle" and can get some people from the west, and most of the people from points east. There's also the public school there (PS 144).  People in Forest Hills Gardens are not going to use the buses, so it does not make sense to just route the bus completely down 71st Avenue. Ascan Ave is even worse because it's within the private community, benefiting much of no one and creating so many issues. 

The Q23 and and Yellowstone Boulevard route in that area can co-exist together. Even if some ridership is lost to a Yellowstone Boulevard route, there's also the catchment area from the west on the Yellowstone Boulevard route plus from whatever other areas it connects to (which in the case of the QT86, would be Glendale). 

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50 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Just because the streets are rather narrow, doesn't mean that they should be streamlined away. 69th Avenue is in the "middle" and can get some people from the west, and most of the people from points east. There's also the public school there (PS 144).  People in Forest Hills Gardens are not going to use the buses, so it does not make sense to just route the bus completely down 71st Avenue. Ascan Ave is even worse because it's within the private community, benefiting much of no one and creating so many issues. 

The Q23 and and Yellowstone Boulevard route in that area can co-exist together. Even if some ridership is lost to a Yellowstone Boulevard route, there's also the catchment area from the west on the Yellowstone Boulevard route plus from whatever other areas it connects to (which in the case of the QT86, would be Glendale). 

Not only that, but Forest Hills Gardens is not going to go for buses running on their private streets. Not happening.

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Since Forest Hills Gardens is completely against the idea of haveing buses run down their streets, wouldn't it be better to do away with the QT87 proposal? I had an idea of having the QT11 taking over Ascan Avenue instead, but decided against it upon hearing that Forest Hills Gardens doesn't want buses down their private Streets. So I think the following revisions can be made:

Q11: The Proposed route remains the same north of 108th Street, but upon reaching Forest Hills, it'll terminate at the corner of 70th Road and Austin Street in order to provide a connection to businesses on Austin Street. Then the Q11 can loop back onto Continental and continue up 108th. 

Q14: Route Split into two. I prefer that the current day Q64 receives this name just to keep consistency with the numbers. This route can be rerouted to the terminal that I'm proposing here for the Q11, then it can also loop on Continental and resume its normal route. 

Q86: Remains as Proposed

Q87: Revised from Scratch. This route can take over the Sourthern Portion of the current day Q23, then run up to Union Turnpike, 188th Street, then resume its proposed route. 

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1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Not only that, but Forest Hills Gardens is not going to go for buses running on their private streets. Not happening.

Who maintains those streets? DOT or the homeowners association?

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1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Who maintains those streets? DOT or the homeowners association?

The homeowners association, hence why they are private streets. Same deal where I live. I live just below Fieldston, which has private streets as well. Any street repair is taken care of by the Fieldston Property Owner's Association, not the City, and thus, since they own the streets, they control what can and can’t go through the streets.

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The circuitous route the 23 takes to get around the private section is murder. That section is probably lightly ridden anyway; I wonder if they homeowner's association would approve of a line using minibuses (like the dollar vans, but run by MTA), that could just run straight across Continental, between Myrtle and Queens Blvd, and then one of those other lines would pick up from there. Those would be less intrusive and more like private vehicles than regular buses, and more likely to pass whatever the vertical clearance is there.

Having the other line across Yellowstone would help those who live in that direction. (from the article, it's not even clear exactly where the complaining people losing service are getting on at).

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25 minutes ago, Eric B said:

The circuitous route the 23 takes to get around the private section is murder. That section is probably lightly ridden anyway; I wonder if they homeowner's association would approve of a line using minibuses (like the dollar vans, but run by MTA), that could just run straight across Continental, between Myrtle and Queens Blvd, and then one of those other lines would pick up from there. Those would be less intrusive and more like private vehicles than regular buses, and more likely to pass whatever the vertical clearance is there.

Having the other line across Yellowstone would help those who live in that direction. (from the article, it's not even clear exactly where the complaining people losing service are getting on at).

It's most certainly not lightly ridden. In fact, they added short-turns on weekdays between Crescent Apartments and Queens Boulevard last year to help with overcrowding.

Yellowstone to 69th Avenue is not a cake walk, and the QT87 avoids 71st Avenue by going via Ascan. So people along 69th Ave and 70th Ave would have quite a walk to the bus, in either direction.

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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18 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The homeowners association, hence why they are private streets. Same deal where I live. I live just below Fieldston, which has private streets as well. Any street repair is taken care of by the Fieldston Property Owner's Association, not the City, and thus, since they own the streets, they control what can and can’t go through the streets.

That's a different one in the Bronx. These streets are owned and maintained by the Forest Hills Gardens Corporation. The existing Q23 skirts the edges of the neighborhood. That is something the MTA will have to live with.

I would actually ask if another route is needed that runs straight down Yellowstone, which would serve a slightly different catchment area.

Edited by aemoreira81

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I think your QT72 should go up Forest too. (Fresh Pond is so slow).

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4 hours ago, Jova42R said:

Here is my proposal for the Forest Hills/Rego Park routes:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zAbJNWo8HghIvErhDwgtRUGoKxOsYSHV&usp=sharing

Thoughts?

There's adequately serving residential areas with bus service, and then there's meandering all over the place for the sake of doing so. Virtually all of these fall under the latter. Lots of people in the residential areas would also be unhappy with all these bus (unnecessarily) running through those narrow streets. 

While I am of the belief that a Forest Hills/Rego Park express route (if marketed correctly) could perform well during off peak periods, such a route is not time competitive with either the QM12 or QM15. Overnight service is not warranted for such a service. Also, you cannot make the left turn from Metropolitan Avenue to Woodhaven Boulevard. 

Your QT98 is duplicative to multiple bus routes, and wouldn't do well east of Atlas Park Mall. I wouldn't want the Eliot Avenue portion of the Q38 to be sent up Junction Boulevard and to LGA, that's just asking for major reliability issues. The Q72 currently is unreliable during the day. 

There's no need for all these routes by Juniper Valley Park. All that's needed is the Q38 Rego Park segment. The QT4L would be carrying air, and is not an adequate replacement for the Q38. Same goes for the QT64. 

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven

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Just some food for thought, why not just end the QT87 at 71 Av station? It ain't no Q64 but it could be a somewhat alternative for it. 

I am aware of the bad idea of messing with the Q64. Again just food for thought.

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Quote

Council Member Karen Koslowitz came to the Community Board 6 meeting and called the draft plan “unacceptable.”

She took issue with the fact that riders would need to take multiple buses to reach their destination —instead of just one. For instance, the Q23 route that runs north-south through Forest Hills would be scrapped and residents would need to take two buses to get from either end of the neighborhood.

“I’m against this plan because this plan doesn’t take in the needs of my community,” Koslowitz said.

“We have elderly people who take the bus…we have disabled people and we have children who take the bus,” she added. “We don’t want to send our people on a wild goose chase.”

More than 19 percent of Forest Hills and Rego Park residents are 65 years or older, according to census data.

This notion that serving both sides of Forest Hills with one route is such this necessity for the community, I'm not buying for a second.... The very route they're advocating to keep intact, is proof enough of that... The masses on either side of the route are bolting for the subway, let's not sit here & try to act oblivious to that.... Pulling on the less virile/muliebrile changes nothing in that regard....

The question I have for Forest Hills is, do they even want local buses running along Yellowstone.... They better hope that the final plan of this thing doesn't call for simply running/diverting that QT87 down Yellowstone to Atlas, leaving a bit of a hole in service in the southern portion of the neighborhood east of Yellowstone.... I can see the MTA extracting the QT86 from that area & ending it along QB where the Q64 currently does - and they'll justify it by claiming that Forest Hills did not want buses running down their private streets.....

Quote

Nearly every person in the room had issues with the draft plan, while the two MTA reps presented it as a “faster, more reliable” bus network. The plan, they said, aims to create straighter bus routes, end redundant routes and cut bus stops that are too close together in order to provide faster trips for riders.

...and for those in the southern portion of Forest Hills, I'm "presenting" my sentiments of that of being a meandrous bus network down there.... Those talking points don't mean shit if what they're actually proposing in this & other areas of the borough would loom detrimental for too significant an amount of people (and yes, long-winded routes being proposed [under the guise of "connecting neighborhoods"] certainly factor into that).....

It seriously looks like they didn't know what to do with that immediate area of Queens - case in point, running buses on Ascan.... A 73rd av route (QT87) & a Main st (QT86) route have no business even running south of QB....

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11 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

This notion that serving both sides of Forest Hills with one route is such this necessity for the community, I'm not buying for a second.... The very route they're advocating to keep intact, is proof enough of that... The masses on either side of the route are bolting for the subway, let's not sit here & try to act oblivious to that.... Pulling on the less virile/muliebrile changes nothing in that regard....

The question I have for Forest Hills is, do they even want local buses running along Yellowstone.... They better hope that the final plan of this thing doesn't call for simply running/diverting that QT87 down Yellowstone to Atlas, leaving a bit of a hole in service in the southern portion of the neighborhood east of Yellowstone.... I can see the MTA extracting the QT86 from that area & ending it along QB where the Q64 currently does - and they'll justify it by claiming that Forest Hills did not want buses running down their private streets.....

...and for those in the southern portion of Forest Hills, I'm "presenting" my sentiments of that of being a meandrous bus network down there.... Those talking points don't mean shit if what they're actually proposing in this & other areas of the borough would loom detrimental for too significant an amount of people (and yes, long-winded routes being proposed [under the guise of "connecting neighborhoods"] certainly factor into that).....

It seriously looks like they didn't know what to do with that immediate area of Queens - case in point, running buses on Ascan.... A 73rd av route (QT87) & a Main st (QT86) route have no business even running south of QB....

While do agree with you on the QT87, I believe that the QT86 can catch on, particularly because getting to Flushing can be difficult from points south of Queens Boulevard. It's not the most direct route, but there people trying to get to Flushing (and other NE Queens destinations) without having to backtrack on the subway. Plus, it also connects some of the high schools that people from Forest Hills/Kew Gardens attend (Townsend Harris in particular, and John Bowne to a much lesser extent) and Queens College.

13 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Just some food for thought, why not just end the QT87 at 71 Av station? It ain't no Q64 but it could be a somewhat alternative for it. 

I am aware of the bad idea of messing with the Q64. Again just food for thought.

The QT87 to me looks like it would be a big failure the way it currently is routed, because it runs in residential areas for large portions of its route, and hits very few commercial areas or places of interest. The section from Main Street to 71st Ave may do better simply because people will consider it a supplement to the QT14. People around the 73rd Avenue area, especially those east of Utopia Parkway, will most likely make their way to the QT11 or the QT32 to the QBL at Kew Gardens, because those would be much more frequent than the QT87. What I feel should be modified in that general area is:

  • QT86: More frequent service (22 min headways during the AM peak, and 15 min headways in the PM peak is not cutting it, especially for the Main Street local), preferably every 10 minutes (if not better) during the rush hours, and every 12 minutes during midday hours. 
  • QT87: Originates at Kew Gardens, via Union Turnpike to Main Street, then Main Street to 73rd Avenue. Takes 73rd Avenue to 188th Street, then 188th Street to Horace Harding Expressway (then use the current proposed route to Little Neck). Frequency wise, AM peak service can be every 9 minutes west of 188th Street. 
  • QT11 (108th Street segment): Existing route from the north to Forest Hills, then via the existing Q23 route to Crescent Apartments
  • QT11 (Union Turnpike Segment): Operates between Queens Boulevard/Union Turnpike and Fresh Meadows Shopping Center. 
  • Retain the Q10 and Q64 as is. 
Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven

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2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

While do agree with you on the QT87, I believe that the QT86 can catch on, particularly because getting to Flushing can be difficult from points south of Queens Boulevard. It's not the most direct route, but there people trying to get to Flushing (and other NE Queens destinations) without having to backtrack on the subway. Plus, it also connects some of the high schools that people from Forest Hills/Kew Gardens attend (Townsend Harris in particular, and John Bowne to a much lesser extent) and Queens College.

Nah, I don't see too many people in Glendale or Forest Hills putting up with a backtrack along Queens Blvd. to Union Tpke to get to Flushing.... That's one of those things that may catch on in the beginning, but will end up getting real old, real fast.....

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On 2/16/2020 at 5:23 PM, aemoreira81 said:

That's a different one in the Bronx. These streets are owned and maintained by the Forest Hills Gardens Corporation. The existing Q23 skirts the edges of the neighborhood. That is something the MTA will have to live with.

The point is that both areas have the same set up, which is that the streets are owned and maintained by the homeowner's association, and the (MTA) can't just run a bus through there unless they receive approval to do so, which is highly unlikely.

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3 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

While do agree with you on the QT87, I believe that the QT86 can catch on, particularly because getting to Flushing can be difficult from points south of Queens Boulevard. It's not the most direct route, but there people trying to get to Flushing (and other NE Queens destinations) without having to backtrack on the subway. Plus, it also connects some of the high schools that people from Forest Hills/Kew Gardens attend (Townsend Harris in particular, and John Bowne to a much lesser extent) and Queens College.

The QT87 to me looks like it would be a big failure the way it currently is routed, because it runs in residential areas for large portions of its route, and hits very few commercial areas or places of interest. The section from Main Street to 71st Ave may do better simply because people will consider it a supplement to the QT14. People around the 73rd Avenue area, especially those east of Utopia Parkway, will most likely make their way to the QT11 or the QT32 to the QBL at Kew Gardens, because those would be much more frequent than the QT87. What I feel should be modified in that general area is:

  • QT86: More frequent service (22 min headways during the AM peak, and 15 min headways in the PM peak is not cutting it, especially for the Main Street local), preferably every 10 minutes (if not better) during the rush hours, and every 12 minutes during midday hours. 
  • QT87: Originates at Kew Gardens, via Union Turnpike to Main Street, then Main Street to 73rd Avenue. Takes 73rd Avenue to 188th Street, then 188th Street to Horace Harding Expressway (then use the current proposed route to Little Neck). Frequency wise, AM peak service can be every 9 minutes west of 188th Street. 
  • QT11 (108th Street segment): Existing route from the north to Forest Hills, then via the existing Q23 route to Crescent Apartments
  • QT11 (Union Turnpike Segment): Operates between Queens Boulevard/Union Turnpike and Fresh Meadows Shopping Center. 
  • Retain the Q10 and Q64 as is. 

I agree with you on most of these, as I use these routes now or in the past on a regular basis. 

My thoughts on:

  • QT11 (108th St segment): I would have this route operate as the MTA has planned, but terminate at the Forest Hills-71 Ave  station. 108 St is not a transit priority corridor and always has traffic. I don’t believe a route should serve both sides of Forest Hills like the Q23, especially because turnover is so high at the subway station. I would reduce it to every 10 minutes on weekdays, instead of every 8 minutes, and would not have any overnight service.
  • QT11 (Union Tpke segment): If this was a route just between Kew Gardens  station and Fresh Meadows, I would be happy. The division of the Q46 into the QT11 and QT32 is excellent. As a commuter now to St. John’s, but also someone who takes the Q46 frequently enough from west of St. John’s to Lake Success, this split is needed. While the Union Tpke section of the QT11 needs more service, the concept of separating the St. John’s ridership from the eastern Union Tpke ridership is great. No more having to let several buses pass by because there is no room, knowing that once they pass St. John’s there will be so much room on board. 
  • QT14 (Lefferts Blvd segment/Q10): Operate from Kew Gardens (E)(F) to Lefferts Blvd Airtrain station. 
  • QT14 (Jewel Ave segment/Q64): Should follow the exact Q64 routing, but only stop at 164 St, Parsons, Kissena, 150 St, and Main St before getting to the subway. I would categorize this as one of the purple routes. The headway’s the MTA proposed for the QT14 would be fine for this.
  • QT86: While is dislike the MTA’s reduction of service on this route, I do agree with the treatment it has received, basically as a coverage route, compared to the current Q20 just being a local version of the Q44. I took the Q20 as part of my commute to high school at Molloy everyday. While in this plan only the Q44 would service it, I don’t see that as a problem. The Q20 was utilized much less than the Q44 especially south of Union Tpke, and my own classmates  would almost always wait for a Q44, even if the wait was 10 minutes longer. Simply because it was “faster”. Also by removing the bus from Jamaica, it will be more reliable than it is currently. I agree that the frequencies should be higher on weekdays, and think the AM and PM rush should be every 12 minutes, as i feel that the current ~7 minute headway is too much, plus the bus won’t need as much service to serve Forest Hills and Glendale, compared to Jamaica.
  • QT87: Since I don’t want the QT11 to serve Forest Hills south of Queens Blvd, the QT87 still will. While i would prefer a routing that avoids 69 Ave and Burns St, if needed would would reroute the QT87 to run down 108 St from 69 Rd/Jewel Ave to serve the subway, then take the main roadway of Queens Blvd and turn onto Yellowstone Blvd to get over to Burns St, avoiding Austin St. As for the rest of the route, its a little complicated. I disagree with you on the portion between Main St and the subway, as I feel that it should cover the Q64 west of Main St. Every 18 minutes during the rush isn’t enough, and neither is every 30 minutes off peak, so for that section, i would have a QT89 also operate. As the QT87 would be my home route now, the 9 minute rush hour headway west from Fresh Meadows to the subway would be too much along 73 Ave from Main St to 188 St. If the QT87 is rerouted along Horace Harding between 188 St and Springfield Blvd, as a Green local route, it wouldn’t serve the expressway well since it would only be stopping at 188 St, Francis Lewis, Oceania, Bell, and Springfield.
  • NEW QT89: Operate the same hours as the QT87. Both the QT87 and QT89 will be every 18 minutes during the rush and 30 minutes off peak. Follows the current Q64 from Forest Hills to Main St, where it would take over the old Q74 route to Queens College. That way Jewel Ave west of Main St would have service every 9 minutes during the rush and 15 minutes off peak. It would stop at Forest Hills (E)(F)(M)(R), 110 St, Park Dr East, 138 St, Main St, Melbourne Ave, Reeves Ave, Horace Harding/Main St, Kissena Blvd/HHE, and terminate at Queens College. On the way back to Main St it would stop at Melbourne Ave/150 St.
Edited by jaf0519

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