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trainfan22

1 dead, 16 injured in subway fire

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Collin said:

I think that most of the people who want it shut down aren't actually dependent on the system.  They own cars and can drive places.  They see the subway (and buses) as an alternative to driving, rather than the only option many people in the city have to get around.  A majority of NYC residents don't own cars.  The system hardly ever shuts down.  9/11, power outages, hurricanes, and one snowstorm (although that turned out to be unnecessary and likely won't happen again) are the only reasons I can remember that caused the entire system to shut down for any length of time.  It was only for a few hours in the case of 9/11, and didn't even last a week with the others, but was still massively disruptive.  Imagine what would happen if it was down for weeks on end.  In all of these cases (except the snowstorm), either the system couldn't run, or would be dangerous and with risk of extreme damage if it continued to run.

 

5 hours ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

 

@B35 via Church Me and my AP Physics teacher actually talked about the possibility of the system getting shut down (when talking about the coronavirus, before it closed schools), we both agreed it's basically impossible. The public would want the system shut down, without considering the people and workers it still continues to serve. People are instinctively anti-subway when tragedy hits, and it's usually not necessitated.

 

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

IDK, but what's starting to anger me (the more I think about this) is that this reeks to me of a crime of opportunity... I really don't want to start hearing outcries from the general public of "shut the subway down" or any monday morning quarterbacking thought process surrounding "the subway system should've been closed anyway".....

in my opinion the system should absolutely not shut down during this rough time. we have poor and middle-income families in places like ENY, brownsville, the south bronx, and harlem who can't afford luxuries like uber and cars and their sole/only method of transport is the subway. if the subway shuts down, those people will not get access to their necessities/means for living out their daily lives and will be stranded for several weeks on end. those who do want the system shutting down won't accomplish their goal because they are acting on the assumption that everyone will stay indoors, when that is/was absolutely not the case. the only reason why the coronavirus is deadly is not only due to a lack of proper sanitation/cleaning, but also because certain people are not taking proper precautions or equipped with protection whenever they are outside. the crime rate can also be contained if the MTA decides to make more preemptive security measures. 

and it's quite funny that the people who want the system shut down aren't even the ones who depend on it like @Collin said. the people who want it shut down should've honestly kept their mouths quiet from the beginning because of the latter reason. if the state/MTA really wanted to shut down the system, they would have done so already. the reason why the MTA is intentionally operating on reduced service is because they know that ridership is low, but don't want to shut the system down out of fear for the reasons i mentioned earlier. it's the same logic for maintaining service during late nights. ridership may be low, but the lifestyles of people here vary to a degree where there are those who are dependent on overnight service. 

point being, i heavily doubt the MTA will shut down service. they would have done it already but are keeping it open on the basis that it will save many others from being put at risk. 

Edited by Coney Island Av
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Collin said:

I think that most of the people who want it shut down aren't actually dependent on the system.  They own cars and can drive places.  They see the subway (and buses) as an alternative to driving, rather than the only option many people in the city have to get around.  A majority of NYC residents don't own cars.  The system hardly ever shuts down.  9/11, power outages, hurricanes, and one snowstorm (although that turned out to be unnecessary and likely won't happen again) are the only reasons I can remember that caused the entire system to shut down for any length of time.  It was only for a few hours in the case of 9/11, and didn't even last a week with the others, but was still massively disruptive.  Imagine what would happen if it was down for weeks on end.  In all of these cases (except the snowstorm), either the system couldn't run, or would be dangerous and with risk of extreme damage if it continued to run.

Has there actually been calls to shut down the subway? I don't have a need for it right now since I don't go into Manhattan anymore, but I still don't think it would make any sense to shut it down. There's still plenty of hospitals, grocery stores, take out restaurants, gas stations, and other businesses whose workers rely on the transit system, and shutting down the subway would make the situation much worse than it currently is.

Edit: I posted this before reading which thread it was in. This is somewhat off topic, so I apologize for not noticing.

Edited by P3F

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As I understand there were three employees on hand.  One was the Train Operator at the north end of the train who was found on the roadbed.  The second was the Conductor who faithfully evacuated the passengers as the professional he or she was.  Third was the 110 Street station agent, who was misidentified as the media as a "second Conductor."  For what that means, the T/O was also showed as "Motorman" or just simply a "Conductor" (generic definition) in other accounts.

As a T/O, the fact that he was able to skillfully bring the train into the 110 Street station was superhumanly of its own.  It takes (2) and (3) five to seven minutes NB to navigate that deep tunnel under the NW corner of Central Park between 96 and 110 Street.  To operate a burning train the T/O had to successfully overcome several curves and time signals, then push the train's power back up, then watch the next speed timers entering the station at 10 mph or a little less on the sharp turn.  Again, all of that would have had to be done while not trying to choke all the while.  The T/O somehow had the will to get all the way to 110 as the only first place that emergency service would have made the burning train.  To stop short under the park could have been a total loss, even if power were to be cut off whereas the interior was actively burning and smoke continue no matter what.

The thick smoke must have been incredible.

The station agent would have been the first eyes to see the fire itself as it came around the turn entering the station.  I would surmise there was quite a smell in advance then thick smoke ahead of the train itself.

That's my own 2 cents FWIW.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The last thing anyone should be worrying about is the stupid train cars, which can be replaced... <_<

I really don’t understand why you decided to post that, but I removed it because we don’t do that here. 
 

-Deucey

Edited by Deucey
Had to moderate

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

I removed this comment. - Deucey

Why should he watch that? He's completely correct, and more people should have listened to his post.

2 hours ago, m2fwannabe said:

As I understand there were three employees on hand.  One was the Train Operator at the north end of the train who was found on the roadbed.  The second was the Conductor who faithfully evacuated the passengers as the professional he or she was.  Third was the 110 Street station agent, who was misidentified as the media as a "second Conductor."  For what that means, the T/O was also showed as "Motorman" or just simply a "Conductor" (generic definition) in other accounts.

As a T/O, the fact that he was able to skillfully bring the train into the 110 Street station was superhumanly of its own.  It takes (2) and (3) five to seven minutes NB to navigate that deep tunnel under the NW corner of Central Park between 96 and 110 Street.  To operate a burning train the T/O had to successfully overcome several curves and time signals, then push the train's power back up, then watch the next speed timers entering the station at 10 mph or a little less on the sharp turn.  Again, all of that would have had to be done while not trying to choke all the while.  The T/O somehow had the will to get all the way to 110 as the only first place that emergency service would have made the burning train.  To stop short under the park could have been a total loss, even if power were to be cut off whereas the interior was actively burning and smoke continue no matter what.

The thick smoke must have been incredible.

The station agent would have been the first eyes to see the fire itself as it came around the turn entering the station.  I would surmise there was quite a smell in advance then thick smoke ahead of the train itself.

That's my own 2 cents FWIW.

Exactly what I've been thinking, if the account that the T/O called in a loud noise earlier and/or struck something on the roadbed are correct, it sounds as though this may have been a positively heroic action to the get the train into the station. The fact that the poor man was found in the track bed suggests smoke inhalation or exhaustion, since you'd imagine the natural course of action would to run away from the flames towards an emergency exit. Given that he was found so close, it does suggest that he may have started to do that, after heroically doing everything possible to get the train's passengers into the station. Again, just my assumption based on the details but it does start to sound like some truly, profoundly heroic stuff. Such a terrible story in every way and my heart just goes out to his family and loved ones. 

 

Edited by Deucey
I moderated the quoted post.
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Hopefully, we could get a sound clips or the final transmissions to RCC as the train pulled into 110-St. Hopefully, he said his goodbyes before he left. Truly lost a hero.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

Why should he watch that? He's completely correct, and more people should have listened to his post.

Exactly what I've been thinking, if the account that the T/O called in a loud noise earlier and/or struck something on the roadbed are correct, it sounds as though this may have been a positively heroic action to the get the train into the station. The fact that the poor man was found in the track bed suggests smoke inhalation or exhaustion, since you'd imagine the natural course of action would to run away from the flames towards an emergency exit. Given that he was found so close, it does suggest that he may have started to do that, after heroically doing everything possible to get the train's passengers into the station. Again, just my assumption based on the details but it does start to sound like some truly, profoundly heroic stuff. Such a terrible story in every way and my heart just goes out to his family and loved ones. 

honestly even i was shocked to see the extensive damage to the R142. however, i am not mad nor upset regarding the fate of this specific set, just shocked about the amount of damage i saw. 

in all honesty, i agree with what u, VG8 and others said earlier. keep in mind i am directing this post not just for those who only care about that R142, but also towards u guys for what i believe is the most logical thing to do.

with that being said, we should put the matters regarding that extensively damaged R142 to the side for now. that does not mean we should not talk about it at all (or at least that's what i think). the ongoing priority is to find all the perpetrators who intentionally did this asinine act of arson/destruction, and properly convict/punish them. we should also honor and mourn the deceased operator for sacrificing his life to get many to safety, and also try to support his family, which needs to cope with this loss. and i am also surprised that no one here has mentioned the firefighters. more than 100 responded at a time which would normally be super quiet and they were brave enough to walk into the smoke-filled station to get the passengers out, which is something also to be noted. once the cases have closed, and all of those who were injured/wounded in the incident have fully recovered, then we can talk about that damaged R142 set. since it is the least of everyone's priorities for now, casting it aside will pose no issue as more information regarding the set will likely be available in the near future, after everything has been settled. 

Edited by Coney Island Av
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^ One thing about the firefighters, their name probably isn't coming up for a reason...not sure if everybody followed the photo incident but a lot of people in RTO are pretty angry with the department right now and I for one don't blame them. Very inappropriate, very juvenile, very disrespectful. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

^ One thing about the firefighters, their name probably isn't coming up for a reason...not sure if everybody followed the photo incident but a lot of people in RTO are pretty angry with the department right now and I for one don't blame them. Very inappropriate, very juvenile, very disrespectful. 

i see. could u possibly elaborate on what exactly happened with the firefighters? reason why i brought them up was because i wasn't aware of any type of incidents they were involved in as a part of this just as u said. i also have not even seen the photos relating to such incident on the firefighters because idk where the link is at. (though i have seen the video of someone exploring the smoke-filled station) 

Edited by Coney Island Av

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Coney Island Av said:

i see. could u possibly elaborate on what exactly happened with the firefighters? reason why i brought them up was because i wasn't aware of any type of incidents they were involved in as a part of this just as u said. i also have not even seen the photos relating to such incident on the firefighters because idk where the link is at. (though i have seen the video of someone exploring the smoke-filled station) 

It's in one of the earlier pages. There was a photo of some of the firefighters posing inside one of the burnt cars, smiling.

EDIT: It was shown on the first post on page 4, but looks like the Tweet was taken down. 

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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Quote

....and move on, we have bigger fish to fry

Maybe a little more maturity should've been exuded, but this more or less sums up my sentiments on this matter.... Like I stated earlier, this isn't something I even wanted to give life to (all things considered)...

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The firefighters names isn't coming up cause this fire is another day in the office for them. Not saying that's a bad thing, they can't get emotionally invested in every call or they would go insane.

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So to recap, 110th St suffered pretty extensive damaged at the north end of the station to the point where even the structural support beams need to be repaired, judging by the photos.

86th St and 96th St remain closed, there was an emergency G.O added yesterday for the Lenox Av closure.

It is now believed that the fire is arson, and that a possible accelerant was found in a shopping cart in the burned car.

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I remeber reading some where that some one burned the Intervale Av Station in the 80s or 90s. But this has to be the worst case of arson ever commited on the Subway. Rest In Piece to the T/0 and they should honor him in some way.

When they rebuild that station they should make a plaqe of him. Or even rename the station after him. But he deserves to honored for his bravery. Rename the station 110 St - Goble.

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12 minutes ago, Q23 via 108 said:

I remeber reading some where that some one burned the Intervale Av Station in the 80s or 90s. But this has to be the worst case of arson ever commited on the Subway. Rest In Piece to the T/0 and they should honor him in some way.

When they rebuild that station they should make a plaqe of him. Or even rename the station after him. But he deserves to honored for his bravery. Rename the station 110 St - Goble.

I honestly agree with this.

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11 hours ago, danielhg121 said:

Hopefully, we could get a sound clips or the final transmissions to RCC as the train pulled into 110-St. Hopefully, he said his goodbyes before he left. Truly lost a hero.

I know someone who read the preliminary and I'd expect a heavily edited/redacted version at best. I hope they Union is taking a good hard look as to what occurred that night regarding the Operators personal safety...I'll leave it at that.

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First off, my condolences to Train Operator Goble family and coworkers.  Working the (2) line as a conductor when I first started Transit, 110-CPN station is a station that I felt uncomfortable when stopping there.  The layout with the exits and all...  Just like 72nd pre rehab....

I know it's been said here a few times, but to those "enthusiasts " worrying whether a trainset will be able to return to service, 

 

"Eat a d*** between two slices of bread....

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Maybe the transportation providers, the manufacturers, those who set the standards, the operating folks, and even the unions, should take the time to reflect on what happened here. There are many things that I have thought about last night but I always go back to my school car instructors. The mantra was safety is number one. Take a look at the pictures of the equipment and the station!  This  isn’t an everyday incident but maybe it will be a wake up call for all of the people that I mentioned. I applaud the heroism of my RTO, Station, coworkers and the FDNY. To the OPTO proponents........, I have nothing to say. My take. YMMV. Carry on.

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After reading through this thread, I'm quite appalled and ashamed at the fact that there are people(particularly the younger transit fans) in this thread that are worried about a train set being repaired/returned to service, along with folks saying that the train was lit on fire because someone didn't like the R142s(which to me, was by far the the most dumbest thing I've read in the thread). Some of you guys seem to forget that trains can be replaced, human lives can not.

As both a rider and an enthusiast, my heart goes out to his family and everyone who knew him and worked with him. We're already living in surreal times with this Coronavirus wreaking havoc in our city, and showing its devastating affects on the many employees of MTA Bus, Subway & Rail, this does not make things any better. I pray(and I'm not much of a praying person, admittedly) for the safety and assurance that all MTA personnel can make it through this and return home to their families and loved ones.

Please be more considerate when you post, and think before you post. At a time and situation like this, subway cars are the very LAST thing you should be worried about....

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3 hours ago, Jsunflyguy said:

I know someone who read the preliminary and I'd expect a heavily edited/redacted version at best. I hope they Union is taking a good hard look as to what occurred that night regarding the Operators personal safety...I'll leave it at that.

I read the report as well......

I agree with you all the way....

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On 3/27/2020 at 6:38 AM, trainfan22 said:

Saw this story on the news this morning. It was horrible, black smoke was POURING out of the subway grates. Several ppl have life threatening injuries. The fire might have started on the train so those cars might be scrap.

those cars will automatically be scrapped since they were destroyed by the fire.

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Coney Island Av said:

 

 

in my opinion the system should absolutely not shut down during this rough time. we have poor and middle-income families in places like ENY, brownsville, the south bronx, and harlem who can't afford luxuries like uber and cars and their sole/only method of transport is the subway. if the subway shuts down, those people will not get access to their necessities/means for living out their daily lives and will be stranded for several weeks on end. those who do want the system shutting down won't accomplish their goal because they are acting on the assumption that everyone will stay indoors, when that is/was absolutely not the case. the only reason why the coronavirus is deadly is not only due to a lack of proper sanitation/cleaning, but also because certain people are not taking proper precautions or equipped with protection whenever they are outside. the crime rate can also be contained if the MTA decides to make more preemptive security measures. 

and it's quite funny that the people who want the system shut down aren't even the ones who depend on it like @Collin said. the people who want it shut down should've honestly kept their mouths quiet from the beginning because of the latter reason. if the state/MTA really wanted to shut down the system, they would have done so already. the reason why the MTA is intentionally operating on reduced service is because they know that ridership is low, but don't want to shut the system down out of fear for the reasons i mentioned earlier. it's the same logic for maintaining service during late nights. ridership may be low, but the lifestyles of people here vary to a degree where there are those who are dependent on overnight service. 

point being, i heavily doubt the MTA will shut down service. they would have done it already but are keeping it open on the basis that it will save many others from being put at risk. 

Arsons and lack of ridership like this is the reason we need more Cops in Subways,  RIP to the T/O. 😢

Edited by SubwayFan3000

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On 3/27/2020 at 1:53 PM, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

I'm hoping that lower ridership helped keep the amount of death/injuries as relatively low as it was. Horrible. 

How many persons there were on that train?

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Q23 via 108 said:

I remeber reading some where that some one burned the Intervale Av Station in the 80s or 90s. But this has to be the worst case of arson ever commited on the Subway. Rest In Piece to the T/0 and they should honor him in some way.

When they rebuild that station they should make a plaqe of him. Or even rename the station after him. But he deserves to honored for his bravery. Rename the station 110 St - Goble.

Just to give a little background on the Intervale incident:

 

"On March 15, 1989, three men set the wooden station house on fire after a failed attempt to rob the token booth. The clerk was not seriously injured, while the suspects fled and were never identified.

After the incident, New York City Transit considered closing this station permanently due to its close proximity to Prospect Avenue and Simpson Street. However, a community uproar led to the scrapping of the plans. The station was rebuilt with steel canopies and windscreens and a concrete station house with glass block windows and embossed leather-looking walls. Renovations took two and a half years. Artwork called El 2/El 5 by Michael Kelly Williams was installed in the mezzanine and features two mosaic murals depicting underground and elevated tracks. The renovated station reopened on April 21, 1992 after 20 months of work was completed."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intervale_Avenue_station

 

This is super tragic. I can't believe this happened.

Edited by NYCTNostalgia
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