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Deucey

COVID-19 MTA/NYC Transit bus service cuts

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While I get why people are upset about a major loss in express service, outside of the peak times I don't see much ridership on the express routes although I could be wrong since that's something more or less out of my area. Also this would be a perfect time to modify the SIM33C to be rerouted from downtown and adopt the Greenwich Village branch full time, maybe even making it permanent after covid-19.

@Via Garibaldi 8 I definitely know you are fighting for more service on the SIMs so how is that working out? Also do you agree with the SIM33C Greenwich Village branch operating full-time?

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Deucey said:

What’s happening in the other boroughs? 

Brooklyn

B100 went from 5 minutes rush hour, 15 minutes days/nights to every 20 minutes. 

BM1-2-3-4 won't have a second bus behind from their Brooklyn terminals AM rush reduced to just one making all stops and PM as well: No split. All of them are on Saturday service with the BM5/QM15 in 1 hour headways. 

B67 will not go over the Navy Terminal to Willamsburg. Instead, it's cut back to its regular Downtown Brooklyn terminal. 

 

Edited by Calvin

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1 hour ago, Calvin said:

B67 will not go over the Navy Terminal to Willamsburg. Instead, it's cut back to its regular Downtown Brooklyn terminal.

Yep... Clymer gate of the Navy Yard is closed.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

While I get why people are upset about a major loss in express service, outside of the peak times I don't see much ridership on the express routes although I could be wrong since that's something more or less out of my area. Also this would be a perfect time to modify the SIM33C to be rerouted from downtown and adopt the Greenwich Village branch full time, maybe even making it permanent after covid-19.

@Via Garibaldi 8 I definitely know you are fighting for more service on the SIMs so how is that working out? Also do you agree with the SIM33C Greenwich Village branch operating full-time?

That isn't the point. The issue here is they are running lines that may be underutilized while discontinuing lines that serve hospitals that are needed by the healthcare workers, which is the whole point of running the service to begin with. It would make more sense to keep those lines and not run some of the others, or scale them back. I have been talking with Filippa about this in private and lending my support in advocating for the Staten Island changes we are pushing for. Some elected officials on Staten Island have also been involved.

As for how it is working out, that remains to be seen. The picks have already been completed, so it's unclear at this point what will happen, but for now, I am keeping an eye on the other express bus lines and trying to keep folks as updated as possible. We did get the (MTA) to make some changes with the BM lines, which they are running on a Saturday schedule to ensure that both Downtown and Midtown is served for the essential workers that still need the service. We also advocated for keeping the X37 and X38 running for a bit, which Justin Brannan also pushed for, which served the hospitals, but that was discontinued after about a week or so. It's a very tense time. To be clear though, the express buses should NOT be crowded.

We don't want anymore than 10 or so riders per bus to allow for social distancing. The buses I have been riding when I have gone out to run errands have had a max of about 6 or so passengers.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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1 hour ago, Calvin said:

Brooklyn

B100 went from 5 minutes rush hour, 15 minutes days/nights to every 20 minutes. 

BM1-2-3-4 won't have a second bus behind from their Brooklyn terminals AM rush reduced to just one making all stops and PM as well: No split. All of them are on Saturday service with the BM5/QM15 in 1 hour headways. 

B67 will not go over the Navy Terminal to Willamsburg. Instead, it's cut back to its regular Downtown Brooklyn terminal. 

 

I know that M104 and M96 service have been cut. I'm pretty sure that M60, M101, M98, and M86 service have been cut, but I'm not sure.

What about the Bronx and Queens?

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1 hour ago, Calvin said:

Brooklyn

B100 went from 5 minutes rush hour, 15 minutes days/nights to every 20 minutes. 

BM1-2-3-4 won't have a second bus behind from their Brooklyn terminals AM rush reduced to just one making all stops and PM as well: No split. All of them are on Saturday service with the BM5/QM15 in 1 hour headways. 

B67 will not go over the Navy Terminal to Willamsburg. Instead, it's cut back to its regular Downtown Brooklyn terminal. 

 

The BMs have been on a Saturday schedule since last Monday. They had originally agreed to running as much service as possible with some Downtown Loop trips running with the Super Express trips being converted to make all stops. That was eliminated after Friday.

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1 hour ago, Deucey said:

What’s happening in the other boroughs?

 

1 hour ago, Calvin said:

B67 will not go over the Navy Terminal to Willamsburg. Instead, it's cut back to its regular Downtown Brooklyn terminal.

From what I've noticed in northern Queens:

-The Q27 is no longer stopping on the campus of Queensboro Community College. However, the Q30 is, since their bus stop is on 56th Avenue just outside of the college and not on the physical campus itself.

Except for runs which might have been eliminated due to operator availability, which I'm not 100% sure of, and the low ridership, everything else, in my opinion, seems "quiet."

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Posted (edited)

All Queens express buses are running. The QM15, QM16, QM17 and QM18 are on a "modified Sunday schedule", which is why they can't be tracked on BusTime, as none of these lines have Sunday schedules. All other Queens express buses are on a regular schedule, with some trips likely going missing if drivers are out sick.

All Bronx express bus service is running normal service with some trips possibly missing if drivers are out sick. I have been speaking with some Yonkers Depot drivers that have been home either because they tested positive, or were told to stay at home for 14 days as a precaution.

X27 and X28 express buses are on a modified Sunday schedule until further notice, with service starting at 6am on both lines to accommodate essential workers.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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i saw something Interesting yesterday! Gun Hill and West Farms Has a lot of it NEW BUSES in Eastchesters GRAVEYARD! I dont know why But they do.. Then i call my friend who drives out of Kingsbridge, and he told me he saw the same thing, Then i noticed a lot of manhattan busses in the bronx working routes! I say Hale buses on a Bx28 and a Hale Sbs On the Bx41.

Then told me that there are over 700 B/O's Out in the bronx and Manhattan is helping the bronx with Hale helping Gun hill, Quill Helping Kingsbridge, and Manhattanville Helping WestFarms. Thats what i was told from a driver. There is a lot of weird things going on in the bronx!

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20 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

While I get why people are upset about a major loss in express service, outside of the peak times I don't see much ridership on the express routes although I could be wrong since that's something more or less out of my area. Also this would be a perfect time to modify the SIM33C to be rerouted from downtown and adopt the Greenwich Village branch full time, maybe even making it permanent after covid-19.

@Via Garibaldi 8 I definitely know you are fighting for more service on the SIMs so how is that working out? Also do you agree with the SIM33C Greenwich Village branch operating full-time?

I don't get what you mean by that. There is the SIM33 (Mariners Harbor - Greenwich Village via West Street) and SIM33C (Mariners Harbor - Midtown via Church Street/Broadway). There is no SIM33C Greenwich Village branch.

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7 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I don't get what you mean by that. There is the SIM33 (Mariners Harbor - Greenwich Village via West Street) and SIM33C (Mariners Harbor - Midtown via Church Street/Broadway). There is no SIM33C Greenwich Village branch.

Like I said, modify the SIM33C to be rerouted from downtown and adopt the Greenwich Village branch full time. 

What I mean by that is reroute the SIM33C from downtown and operate via Battery Park while still providing service to midtown.

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36 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Like I said, modify the SIM33C to be rerouted from downtown and adopt the Greenwich Village branch full time. 

What I mean by that is reroute the SIM33C from downtown and operate via Battery Park while still providing service to midtown.

What would be the point? You could run it over there but for what? That's the World Financial Center. Very few people working over there now to have dedicated service there.

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With the city cutting the budget from transportation and other industries due to the Covid-19 Crisis I wouldn’t be surprised if there is another 2010 style “doomsday” cuts to bus and subway service after this is over.

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18 hours ago, I Run Trains said:

i saw something Interesting yesterday! Gun Hill and West Farms Has a lot of it NEW BUSES in Eastchesters GRAVEYARD! I dont know why But they do.. Then i call my friend who drives out of Kingsbridge, and he told me he saw the same thing, Then i noticed a lot of manhattan busses in the bronx working routes! I say Hale buses on a Bx28 and a Hale Sbs On the Bx41.

Then told me that there are over 700 B/O's Out in the bronx and Manhattan is helping the bronx with Hale helping Gun hill, Quill Helping Kingsbridge, and Manhattanville Helping WestFarms. Thats what i was told from a driver. There is a lot of weird things going on in the bronx!

There was also Hale #6789 on the Bx41 yesterday, and #6761 on the Bx28 today. Another crazy one was Tusky 3939 on the Bx9 yesterday 

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2 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

With the city cutting the budget from transportation and other industries due to the Covid-19 Crisis I wouldn’t be surprised if there is another 2010 style “doomsday” cuts to bus and subway service after this is over.

Somewhat related to your point (and I'm not implicating what I'm about to say is at all correlated), but I have thought about the timing of this whole thing & the potential effect it could have on/with the MTA justifying completely bastardizing a lot of Brooklyn routes in the redesign (whenever they get around to it).....

7 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Like I said, modify the SIM33C to be rerouted from downtown and adopt the Greenwich Village branch full time. 

What I mean by that is reroute the SIM33C from downtown and operate via Battery Park while still providing service to midtown.

6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What would be the point? You could run it over there but for what? That's the World Financial Center. Very few people working over there now to have dedicated service there.

Telecommuting has been on the rise anyway.... This covid19 bit only expedited it... Exponentially.

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Starting April 12, there will be no scheduled Q26 service as part of the Essential Service plan. Take the Q27, Q65 or Q12 instead.

While the MTA runs an Essential Service plan, there is no scheduled Bx20 service. Take the Bx7 or Bx10 instead.

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5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Somewhat related to your point (and I'm not implicating what I'm about to say is at all correlated), but I have thought about the timing of this whole thing & the potential effect it could have on/with the MTA justifying completely bastardizing a lot of Brooklyn routes in the redesign (whenever they get around to it).....

Telecommuting has been on the rise anyway.... This covid19 bit only expedited it... Exponentially.

Your comment about telecommuting rang a long dormant bell for me.  60 years ago that vision of the future was taught to my generation of students and I have never forgotten how it was described. It's something that bothers me,  especially in the subway threads, when I see posters advocating for more train service when it's quite possible that the planning process is guided by folks who came up with me. Automated operation, working from home,  computers  smaller than mainframes,  less commuters  which leads to less T/O and C/R jobs being needed during rush/peak hours,  ATS, CBTC, and for the Surface fans you can do with the subway feeder routes and SBS . Less B/O jobs needed overall long term. The same folks who taught us that explained how many jobs would be done from home in the future and that B/O jobs,  commercial truck operators,  Sanitation workers and mechanic jobs would be the least impacted in the future. To me now is the beginning of that vision. I'm not trying to be alarmist about it because it's been 60 years in the making but the present situation makes me wonder.  Just something that I heard many years ago. George and Elroy Jetson aren't flying around yet but I bet that there are folks in charge who saw those cartoons and learned what I learned and are going to use this to their advantage.  Just my thoughts.  Carry on. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Your comment about telecommuting rang a long dormant bell for me.  60 years ago that vision of the future was taught to my generation of students and I have never forgotten how it was described. It's something that bothers me,  especially in the subway threads, when I see posters advocating for more train service when it's quite possible that the planning process is guided by folks who came up with me. Automated operation, working from home,  computers  smaller than mainframes,  less commuters  which leads to less T/O and C/R jobs being needed during rush/peak hours,  ATS, CBTC, and for the Surface fans you can do with the subway feeder routes and SBS . Less B/O jobs needed overall long term. The same folks who taught us that explained how many jobs would be done from home in the future and that B/O jobs,  commercial truck operators,  Sanitation workers and mechanic jobs would be the least impacted in the future. To me now is the beginning of that vision. I'm not trying to be alarmist about it because it's been 60 years in the making but the present situation makes me wonder.  Just something that I heard many years ago. George and Elroy Jetson aren't flying around yet but I bet that there are folks in charge who saw those cartoons and learned what I learned and are going to use this to their advantage.  Just my thoughts.  Carry on. 

Telecommuting was becoming "the thing" even before this whole thing started. Quite a few people did it. Maybe they came to the office twice a week and worked from home three days a week. You should expect it accelerate because for one, you could save a lot of money on rent if you don't need an office to operate out of. I'll use the company I work for as an example.  We've always said that we pay too much in rent in our New York location, and we keep scaling down every time we move because more and more work is done off-site. We will be looking to do the same thing when we move again. About $250,000 annually could be used for something else, and that's one location...

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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On 4/9/2020 at 5:08 PM, Deucey said:

So looks like SI is going to a weekend bus schedule for the expresses, and all the peak period local buses (s42, for example) are discontinued.

https://www.silive.com/coronavirus/2020/04/staten-island-buses-how-much-more-will-mta-cut-service.html

 

My takeaway from that article is basically a sense of "They have no right to reduce service just because there aren't enough drivers."  

The Big Question is this: What exactly do they want the MTA to do? It is physically impossible to run buses without drivers (otherwise, MTA would have tried already). Manhattan bus operators can help out in the Bronx because they belong to the same collective bargaining unit within TWU-100. Meanwhile, ATU-726 is its own world on Staten Island and drivers cannot be called in from elsewhere to help out — in fact, the ATU-726 contract explicitly states that only its members are allowed to drive MTA buses to, from, and within Staten Island, whether in service or not.

 

It's most logical to serve as many passengers as possible by running as much service as possible on the "core" routes with the available drivers. For local ferry-feeder routes, that probably means scaling back to match the 60-minute ferry headways. For express routes, it means focusing on the "C" variants (but maybe have them drop off on Madison or 3rd to bring passengers closer to East Side hospitals).

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33 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

My takeaway from that article is basically a sense of "They have no right to reduce service just because there aren't enough drivers."  

The Big Question is this: What exactly do they want the MTA to do? It is physically impossible to run buses without drivers (otherwise, MTA would have tried already). Manhattan bus operators can help out in the Bronx because they belong to the same collective bargaining unit within TWU-100. Meanwhile, ATU-726 is its own world on Staten Island and drivers cannot be called in from elsewhere to help out — in fact, the ATU-726 contract explicitly states that only its members are allowed to drive MTA buses to, from, and within Staten Island, whether in service or not.

 

It's most logical to serve as many passengers as possible by running as much service as possible on the "core" routes with the available drivers. For local ferry-feeder routes, that probably means scaling back to match the 60-minute ferry headways. For express routes, it means focusing on the "C" variants (but maybe have them drop off on Madison or 3rd to bring passengers closer to East Side hospitals).

Would that be the same case with Queens ops with ATU.  

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Would that be the same case with Queens ops with ATU.  

i don't think the ATU 1056 is that strict, regarding into & out of Queens (then again, look at the Q32 & Q44) however within Queens, i do believe their work cannot be assigned to any other division, including Bus Company (i believe brooklyn has the same policy) with that said, i believe only up until recently, shuttle work in Queens was solely theirs.

before anyone mentions the 'Q' designated routes based out of Brooklyn Division depots, the Q24's & 58's of the world are technically still brooklyn routes. their prefixes were 'B' once upon a time, so the ATU never had control over them, nor did they ever want those routes. 

 

51 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

My takeaway from that article is basically a sense of "They have no right to reduce service just because there aren't enough drivers."  

The Big Question is this: What exactly do they want the MTA to do? It is physically impossible to run buses without drivers (otherwise, MTA would have tried already). Manhattan bus operators can help out in the Bronx because they belong to the same collective bargaining unit within TWU-100. Meanwhile, ATU-726 is its own world on Staten Island and drivers cannot be called in from elsewhere to help out — in fact, the ATU-726 contract explicitly states that only its members are allowed to drive MTA buses to, from, and within Staten Island, whether in service or not.

 

It's most logical to serve as many passengers as possible by running as much service as possible on the "core" routes with the available drivers. For local ferry-feeder routes, that probably means scaling back to match the 60-minute ferry headways. For express routes, it means focusing on the "C" variants (but maybe have them drop off on Madison or 3rd to bring passengers closer to East Side hospitals).

glad someone said it. unfortunately, in order to provide more service for staten island, 2 things would have to happen: ATU 726 & Local 100 would have to hammer out an agreement in conjunction with management (which i don't see happening, 726 is notoriously stubborn and rightfully so, tbh) and more employees would have to begin actually showing up for work, which is another unlikely event.

Edited by EastFlatbushLarry
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On 4/9/2020 at 5:45 PM, Calvin said:

Brooklyn

B100 went from 5 minutes rush hour, 15 minutes days/nights to every 20 minutes. 

BM1-2-3-4 won't have a second bus behind from their Brooklyn terminals AM rush reduced to just one making all stops and PM as well: No split. All of them are on Saturday service with the BM5/QM15 in 1 hour headways. 

B67 will not go over the Navy Terminal to Willamsburg. Instead, it's cut back to its regular Downtown Brooklyn terminal. 

 

Also in Brooklyn, everything is running on a Sunday schedule (everyday!), plus there are no reliefs being done on the road. If you get relieved, you gotta finish the route and pull in. If you relieve someone, you gotta make a pull-out from the depot.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

My takeaway from that article is basically a sense of "They have no right to reduce service just because there aren't enough drivers."  

The Big Question is this: What exactly do they want the MTA to do? It is physically impossible to run buses without drivers (otherwise, MTA would have tried already). Manhattan bus operators can help out in the Bronx because they belong to the same collective bargaining unit within TWU-100. Meanwhile, ATU-726 is its own world on Staten Island and drivers cannot be called in from elsewhere to help out — in fact, the ATU-726 contract explicitly states that only its members are allowed to drive MTA buses to, from, and within Staten Island, whether in service or not.

 

It's most logical to serve as many passengers as possible by running as much service as possible on the "core" routes with the available drivers. For local ferry-feeder routes, that probably means scaling back to match the 60-minute ferry headways. For express routes, it means focusing on the "C" variants (but maybe have them drop off on Madison or 3rd to bring passengers closer to East Side hospitals).

Your takeaway is incorrect. What we want them to do on the express bus is YES, scale back service, BUT run the lines that are MOST needed. There's no point in running the C lines if they are benefitting fewer people than they benefit, forcing them into much longer commutes with numerous transfers. That's the problem here, and they haven't budged on this on Staten Island, which is stupid.  You're going to have people now having to drive to some express bus just to get any service, especially deep on the South Shore. The SIM1C only goes as far South as the Eltingville Transit Center, and the SIM4C ends in Huguenot. It's horrible. We have nurses on the front lines working 12 hours almost, and now they will have their commutes almost doubled, doing a good two hours each way. 

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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19 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Your takeaway is incorrect. What we want them to do on the express bus is YES, scale back service, BUT run the lines that are MOST needed. 

 

Who decides that?  One specific passenger or the overall population of passengers? 

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