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MHV9218

New: Complete Overnight Service Shutdown

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

I’m in full agreement on this. I’ve seen it done in Philadelphia and LA. Although for the most part bus connections correspond to the late night service. Last night Flatbush had 6 buses since the service is every 20 minutes. I’m gonna give it shot to fan the line. (Something I haven’t done in years primarily since becoming a car owner and grown too tired of the (MTA)  shenanigans but this would be something to check out) 

Sample of my idea:

Route duplicates (4) and (D) - Runs on the Concourse to 149th, goes over 3rd Av/Willis Av Bridges, down Lexington/up Third Av; terminates at Bryant Park. Bk Segment runs from New Lots along Livonia to E 98th St, up Ralph to Eastern Pkwy; up Flatbush, the Bridge, then Bowery, up Park Av, terms at GCT with timed Transfer to the Bx segment. 

I should write/draw this whole Subway OWL plan out. Been years since I drew a map.

Edited by Deucey
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1 hour ago, Deucey said:

Sample of my idea:

Route duplicates (4) and (D) - Runs on the Concourse to 149th, goes over 3rd Av/Willis Av Bridges, down Lexington/up Third Av; terminates at Bryant Park. Bk Segment runs from New Lots along Livonia to E 98th St, up Ralph to Eastern Pkwy; up Flatbush, the Bridge, then Bowery, up Park Av, terms at GCT with timed Transfer to the Bx segment. 

I should write/draw this whole Subway OWL plan out. Been years since I drew a map.

Unless I missed it, where would your route terminate in the Bronx?

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35 minutes ago, LegoBrickBreaker101 said:

Unless I missed it, where would your route terminate in the Bronx?

BPB - split the difference between both stations on Jerome and Concourse - since local buses pick up more at those two stations than at Norwood or Woodlawn.

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2 hours ago, Deucey said:

Sample of my idea:

Route duplicates (4) and (D) - Runs on the Concourse to 149th, goes over 3rd Av/Willis Av Bridges, down Lexington/up Third Av; terminates at Bryant Park. Bk Segment runs from New Lots along Livonia to E 98th St, up Ralph to Eastern Pkwy; up Flatbush, the Bridge, then Bowery, up Park Av, terms at GCT with timed Transfer to the Bx segment. 

I should write/draw this whole Subway OWL plan out. Been years since I drew a map.

There's one small problem with that, and it's not too different from why the B11 uses Avenue J.

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13 hours ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

That's a very interesting yet mundane qualification for becoming a "favorite city."

...because NYC isn't a world class city without 24/7 subway service.

Apparently he doesn't "love NY" enough.

13 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

In all fairness NYC subway doesn't need to be 24/7. The (MTA) needs to take the practice of (SEPTA) and other transit agencies to not run trains at night and offer bus alternatives.

Sure, just remember that when you have trips going unfilled.... Happened to a few people on this forum alone.

An expanded overnight bus network isn't an alternative if it ends up being the sole option to get around by public transportation... Let's not get too hasty with the *subway isn't necessary during the overnight hours* rhetoric.....

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1 hour ago, Lex said:

There's one small problem with that, and it's not too different from why the B11 uses Avenue J.

But if it only stops where the corresponding train stops during the day, then it's a different experience altogether.

The only real flaw to something like this is that since buses cost more to run than trains, and SRO is ~116-120 people on artics, depending upon the night ridership you might see 8-10 minute frequencies and need three drivers for every train crew. So on Lex - for example, where you'd only need four people to run (4) and (6) every 20 minutes, you'd need 12 to run the buses to match the ridership demand whether the (4)-bus ran local or express. (Assumption being that the runtimes aren't heavily divergent due to traffic.)

The economics favor running the trains, but if they're insistent on shutting the system overnight, having the buses duplicate the train routes as closely as possible between two boroughs is how I'd do it.

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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Sure, just remember that when you have trips going unfilled.... Happened to a few people on this forum alone.

An expanded overnight bus network isn't an alternative if it ends up being the sole option to get around by public transportation... Let's not get too hasty with the *subway isn't necessary during the overnight hours* rhetoric.....

That’s a copy. I’ve read some of those stories. Between the BxM1/2 and BM3 sagas. Definitely don’t want to turn this to a bashing of no overnight service via trains.
Temporary yes to have the trains not run 24/7 for now. But, let’s think of this as prince Andrew would want the trains shut down permanently to save (MTA) $$$$. 

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28 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

That’s a copy. I’ve read some of those stories. Between the BxM1/2 and BM3 sagas. Definitely don’t want to turn this to a bashing of no overnight service via trains.
Temporary yes to have the trains not run 24/7 for now. But, let’s think of this as prince Andrew would want the trains shut down permanently to save (MTA) $$$$. 

It's not even about bashing.... Rail service is a necessity.

Here's the thing about that penultimate statement though.... How long is "temporary" set out to be?

32 minutes ago, Deucey said:

But if it only stops where the corresponding train stops during the day, then it's a different experience altogether.

The only real flaw to something like this is that since buses cost more to run than trains, and SRO is ~116-120 people on artics, depending upon the night ridership you might see 8-10 minute frequencies and need three drivers for every train crew. So on Lex - for example, where you'd only need four people to run (4) and (6) every 20 minutes, you'd need 12 to run the buses to match the ridership demand whether the (4)-bus ran local or express. (Assumption being that the runtimes aren't heavily divergent due to traffic.)

The economics favor running the trains, but if they're insistent on shutting the system overnight, having the buses duplicate the train routes as closely as possible between two boroughs is how I'd do it.

What he's getting at, is that it's physically impossible to have anything running along Livonia from New Lots (3) to E. 98th... Livonia is cut off at Junius from the west & cut off at Van Sinderen from the east.... The station entrance for Livonia av. (L) is along Van Sinderen, right in front of where Livonia av. (the street) ends....

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