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I love NY

A paradoxical situation

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We know that the subway is shuttered nightly for the duration of the coronavirus pandemic, but that the trains will continue to run between 1 a.m. and 5 a.m. (https://nypost.com/2020/05/06/why-nyc-ghost-trains-run-during-coronavirus-subway-shutdowns/?utm_source=facebook_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site+buttons&utm_campaign=site+buttons&fbclid=IwAR3OazlQ0acbC8ATMtiwTL5GQUiSShNsF31Vhw0mQ5ouZvAJd-mFBLbNFfo).

It happens for various reasons. First of all the transit officials opted to keep trains running because of a lack of space to store trains elsewhere at once, and the need to position trains for the 5 a.m. morning rush. But this service is very important for the transit workers. 

Does mean that after 1AM there is still a train every 20 minutes until the 5AM on  all lines? And it stops still in every station?

What is the exact situation of this temporary and strange overnight shutdown?

 

 

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Yes and Yes.

 

Two reasons. #1 so that all trains still on the road can be cleaned in terminals without interference of those who refuse to leave the train preventing the cleaners access to the entire train, which leads to #2 which is to have legal standing to get the homeless out of the system (since NYPD didn't want to enforce the "subway service is for essential employees only getting to and from work) they can now enforce the "the system is closed and you are now trespassing" without any ACLU's crying that they're targetting the homeless specifically).

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Therefore if the overnight trains run as always every 20 minutes on all the lines and they stop in every station, we have the same costs for fuel, motormen etc, but with a thousand of cops to watch the entrances, the homeless problem moved in the streets and on the buses (much more dangerous for the bus drivers) and ABOVE ALL a fundamental and historical (since 1904 in the subway, but since 1878 on the elevated railways) overnight service closed ONLY for the normal riders.........What is the advantage of this ridicolous situation?

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The long and the short of is his royal majesty, the Emperor Cuomo, decided something to do something about the state of the subway... and gave them a weekend to figure out how to do it.

 

the plan’s flaws are more numerious than it’s benefits. Once 1 AM hits, the trains are exit only. Not the just stations, the trains two. I actually asked them what would happen if a train had to be taken OOS after 1AM but before it got to the last stop.

if there was a train with passenger behind the stalled one, would the passengers on the first train be allowed on the second.


They said NO. The trains are exit only. It would seem the passengers were to be left to their own devices and told to get out of the station.  Now, since they did not get off the train be choice, a reasonable plan would make an exception, considering this is practically a cardinal sin. More so when you consider this may be a violation of the ADA.

 

consider this... an F has to be removed from service at Smith/9th. Passengers are told they have to get off and leave the station... and one of them happens to be in a wheelchair...

are they so stubborn in their rules to have to carry this poor sap all the way down the stairs instead of letting them get on another train?

this is what you do when you plan something 

step 1: “How many ways can this go wrong?”

step 2: “How many ways can this go wrong... that I didn’t think of  at step 1?”

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Posted (edited)

If during this shutdown (for the riders) the subway is however 24/7 and the same situation happened also during the great strikes ((January 1–13, 1966, April 1–11, 1980, December 20–22, 2005), the last hurricanes and the last blizzards, is it right to say that the only times that the whole NY subway was TRULY and FULLY stopped since 1904 it has been only during the 3 great blackouts (November 9-10, 1965,  July 13–14, 1977, August 14–16, 2003) and for about 90/95 minutes the September 11, 2001 (from 10:20 a.m. to shortly before noon)?

Edited by I love NY

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Posted (edited)
On 5/11/2020 at 8:35 PM, I love NY said:

If during this shutdown (for the riders) the subway is however 24/7 and the same situation happened also during the great strikes ((January 1–13, 1966, April 1–11, 1980, December 20–22, 2005), the last hurricanes and the last blizzards, is it right to say that the only times that the whole NY subway was TRULY and FULLY stopped since 1904 it has been only during the 3 great blackouts (November 9-10, 1965,  July 13–14, 1977, August 14–16, 2003) and for about 90/95 minutes the September 11, 2001 (from 10:20 a.m. to shortly before noon)?

You’ve nailed it for the most part. There might have been some scattered wildcat strikes in the private lines era but blackout conditions will shut down the electric equipment every time. Diesel is different. Carry on.

Edited by Trainmaster5
Last sentence 😀

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NY subway has over 700 trains, but what is the max number of NY subway trains which can stay in the rail yards simultaneously?

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2 hours ago, I love NY said:

NY subway has over 700 trains, but what is the max number of NY subway trains which can stay in the rail yards simultaneously?

Not a lot. When a "snow shutdown" or a "hurricane shutdown" occurs, a lot of trains are laid up along underground express tracks throughout the subway.

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5 hours ago, I love NY said:

NY subway has over 700 trains, but what is the max number of NY subway trains which can stay in the rail yards simultaneously?

I think I understand what you're trying to figure out but I think you worded your question incorrectly. I think the proper way to phrase this is how many train cars can fit into the yards. A 2 car Franklin Shuttle is a train as is an 11 car (7) train. See what I'm trying to point out ? 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 10, and 11car consists are all trains and I admit that I don't know if there are 700 trains running around the system all the time since the use of link bars became prevalent rather than single cars or married pairs which would make it much easier to make optimum use of yard space. It's kinda hard to squeeze a 5 car linked consist into a 2 or 3 car single or married pair slot. Just my take.  Carry on. 

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You are right. My curiosity is this: I always knew that even in this overnight shutdown it isn't possible to stop the trains because it there isn't the necessary space to put the trains in the yards. But what is the problem if they stop the trains at 1AM in the some stations? I think that during the 3 great blackouts (1965, 1977 and 2003) the trains was left on the tracks in the stations........

Thanks for the possible reply.

P.S. When will return the 24/7 subway service?

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2 hours ago, I love NY said:

You are right. My curiosity is this: I always knew that even in this overnight shutdown it isn't possible to stop the trains because it there isn't the necessary space to put the trains in the yards. But what is the problem if they stop the trains at 1AM in the some stations? I think that during the 3 great blackouts (1965, 1977 and 2003) the trains was left on the tracks in the stations........

Thanks for the possible reply.

P.S. When will return the 24/7 subway service?

Well yeah they were left on the tracks in the stations, they couldn't move! They were also left in the middle of tunnels and bridges.

Generally speaking you want to park trains where they are easy to get to when you do want to start service again, and that would be a yard. Employees don't randomly show up to, say, the middle of the Manhattan Bridge, and there isn't exactly an easy way to get to those tracks.

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3 hours ago, I love NY said:

You are right. My curiosity is this: I always knew that even in this overnight shutdown it isn't possible to stop the trains because it there isn't the necessary space to put the trains in the yards. But what is the problem if they stop the trains at 1AM in the some stations? I think that during the 3 great blackouts (1965, 1977 and 2003) the trains was left on the tracks in the stations........

Thanks for the possible reply.

P.S. When will return the 24/7 subway service?

I'm out of the loop on this so I have to yield to an active RTO person or someone who's actually contacted Transit on the situation. My first take was that no passengers would be allowed to enter any train that left the terminal after 1 AM. Let's say a (2) or an (A) was scheduled to leave it's terminal at 12:58 AM and arrive at the other end 90 minutes later. In my way of thinking those riders already on those trains should be allowed to continue on board until they reach their stop or the opposite terminal. If I understand Kamen Rider correctly at 1 AM,. wherever the train is, all passengers must detrain. That's flat out stupid and dangerous, IMO. I don't know what procedure is being done to clean a consist in a station but, depending on other factors ( number of cleaners, hand vs power wash) I think that a 20-30 minute layover at a terminal is enough time to clean a train and send it back out in the other direction. Rinse, wash, repeat for the allotted 4 hours and each train scheduled for road service can proceed between terminals and be in position when regular service starts again at 5 AM. If what you're asking is why don't they stop a train mid-route and clean a train the facilities aren't there to do so. One could theoretically try that but then you would need multiple mobile wash trucks and the associated equipment to do that. I haven't been in a train yard on the midnight tour in over a decade but it appears, at least to me, that it's easier to do the work required at the terminals versus running trains in and out of the yards. As far as blackouts go during the last one my conductor and I spent 18 hours onboard our train which was fully berthed in a station. Two of our friends, a T/O and a TSS had to evacuate their train that was stuck in the Clark St tunnel between Manhattan and Brooklyn. By rule, at that time, the train crew was supposed to remain with their train until relieved. We remained while others didn't. They got home that evening. Power went off at 4:10 PM that afternoon and it was still off at 9:50 AM the next morning at our location in Brooklyn when we were finally relieved. What I'm getting at is that some things aren't written down in any manual or rule book but done on the fly. Those types of things really depend on the local supervisors and on the personnel on the scene. My generation of RTO employee was to take any safe action and worry about the rule book explanations afterward. From what I've seen that, and common sense, are frowned upon these days. My take. Carry on

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3 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I'm out of the loop on this so I have to yield to an active RTO person or someone who's actually contacted Transit on the situation. My first take was that no passengers would be allowed to enter any train that left the terminal after 1 AM. Let's say a (2) or an (A) was scheduled to leave it's terminal at 12:58 AM and arrive at the other end 90 minutes later. In my way of thinking those riders already on those trains should be allowed to continue on board until they reach their stop or the opposite terminal. If I understand Kamen Rider correctly at 1 AM,. wherever the train is, all passengers must detrain. That's flat out stupid and dangerous, IMO. I don't know what procedure is being done to clean a consist in a station but, depending on other factors ( number of cleaners, hand vs power wash) I think that a 20-30 minute layover at a terminal is enough time to clean a train and send it back out in the other direction. Rinse, wash, repeat for the allotted 4 hours and each train scheduled for road service can proceed between terminals and be in position when regular service starts again at 5 AM. If what you're asking is why don't they stop a train mid-route and clean a train the facilities aren't there to do so. One could theoretically try that but then you would need multiple mobile wash trucks and the associated equipment to do that. I haven't been in a train yard on the midnight tour in over a decade but it appears, at least to me, that it's easier to do the work required at the terminals versus running trains in and out of the yards. As far as blackouts go during the last one my conductor and I spent 18 hours onboard our train which was fully berthed in a station. Two of our friends, a T/O and a TSS had to evacuate their train that was stuck in the Clark St tunnel between Manhattan and Brooklyn. By rule, at that time, the train crew was supposed to remain with their train until relieved. We remained while others didn't. They got home that evening. Power went off at 4:10 PM that afternoon and it was still off at 9:50 AM the next morning at our location in Brooklyn when we were finally relieved. What I'm getting at is that some things aren't written down in any manual or rule book but done on the fly. Those types of things really depend on the local supervisors and on the personnel on the scene. My generation of RTO employee was to take any safe action and worry about the rule book explanations afterward. From what I've seen that, and common sense, are frowned upon these days. My take. Carry on

I’m kind of confused as to what the original poster is asking as well. To clarify somethings trains remain in service until they reach their respective terminals regardless of it’s after 1am. When they arrive the police help the train crew remove everyone from the train/escort them out the station. While the train is in the terminal it’s left with the doors open for the cleaners to do their thing until it’s time for departure then it runs light picking up TA employees along with police. 
 

The underlined part in your post hit the nail in the head I don’t know where people pull these ideas from. I know I’m not telling a group of people they have to get off mid route with no alternative.

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No one is admitted after 1 am.

The passengers that are already on the train at that time have to get off when the train gets to the terminal. 

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My long rant, to clarify, was about a train leaving service before it even got to the terminal, leaving the passengers stuck wherever the train was.

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