Rockland County Bus Redesign

[Jova42R]

Hi all!

I have made a redesign of Transit of Rockland’s bus routes. The goal is to improve service within the county, without having way too many routes. In addition, I have proposed a Rockland LRT that would run fromTarrytown to Sparkill, before splitting and running to Blauvelt and Harrington Park. This would most likely run DMUs, although @Collin and @B35 via Church would know better than me.

This map DOES NOT include HudsonLink or the 3 TOR loops.

map: 
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&mid=1r1riyOY2yOI-0cmDIDbiNgdLMkCEdE0T&ll=41.12856620718155%2C-74.02538485000002&z=11

 

Thoughts?

[Jova42R]

19 hours ago, Jova42R said:

Hi all!

I have made a redesign of Transit of Rockland’s bus routes. The goal is to improve service within the county, without having way too many routes. In addition, I have proposed a Rockland LRT that would run fromTarrytown to Sparkill, before splitting and running to Blauvelt and Harrington Park. This would most likely run DMUs, although @Collin and @B35 via Church would know better than me.

This map DOES NOT include HudsonLink or the 3 TOR loops.

map: 
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&mid=1r1riyOY2yOI-0cmDIDbiNgdLMkCEdE0T&ll=41.12856620718155%2C-74.02538485000002&z=11

 

Thoughts?

One edit: I changed the name of the Light rail to the L96, not R96, to distinguish it from the buses.

@B35 via Church @Lex @engineerboy6561 @Kriston Lewis @WillF40PH @Mnrr6131 Thoughts?

[engineerboy6561]

So just to review:

The 59 gets extended to Piermont from Nyack

The 91 drops service to the county seat, Helen Hayes Hospital, and Yeager Health.

The 92 drops its connections to the psych hospital and the industrial park

The 93 gets extended to Tuxedo

The 94 gets extended to Jones Pt

The 95 gets extended to Spring Valley and drops the deviation into Helen Hayes, as well as all West Haverstraw service

The 96 light rail connects Harrington Park, NJ and Blauvelt, NY to Tarrytown MNR, just missing central Nyack

The 97 looks basically unchanged

The 98 runs from Suffern to Stony Point via 202

The 99 comes out of Montvale, runs near the turnpike, straight up to New City, then hitting all the county functions and Jawonio before taking 33 to Helen Hayes.

This looks interesting; I don't know Rockland County that well so I'm not sure how much use I'm going to be. The thing I would suggest when you plan things is to look at https://www.policymap.com/ and look at incomes and population densities, because that will tell you a lot about what sort of transit use you can expect. My first thoughts are: 

The 98 looks like it's gonna carry air; it's running through a really spread out area that's pretty well off for 95% of the route, with the exception of the termini. Most of the people who live near it are likely to drive. The 99 looks interesting, and it looks good on paper. In practice, I'm not so sure because it looks like the 91 as it is is configured to connect the poorer, high-density patches of the county to the county seat and the hospitals, and the 99 doesn't really do that very well.

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by engineerboy6561

[Jova42R]

35 minutes ago, engineerboy6561 said:

So just to review:

The 59 gets extended to Piermont from Nyack

yes

35 minutes ago, engineerboy6561 said:

The 91 drops service to the county seat, Helen Hayes Hospital, and Yeager Health.

It does stop at Helen Hayes, I just couldn't put it on the map.

The map shows that it stops at Yeager

35 minutes ago, engineerboy6561 said:

The 92 drops its connections to the psych hospital and the industrial park

The 92 is unchanged except for the extension to Piermont

 

35 minutes ago, engineerboy6561 said:

The 93 gets extended to Tuxedo

The 94 gets extended to Jones Pt

yes

35 minutes ago, engineerboy6561 said:

The 95 gets extended to Spring Valley and drops the deviation into Helen Hayes, as well as all West Haverstraw service

it runs through Helen Hayes (I edited the map). The 99 runs through W Haverstraw

35 minutes ago, engineerboy6561 said:

The 96 light rail connects Harrington Park, NJ and Blauvelt, NY to Tarrytown MNR, just missing central Nyack

yes

35 minutes ago, engineerboy6561 said:

The 97 looks basically unchanged

it runs through Congers to better serve that area, but otherwise unchanged

35 minutes ago, engineerboy6561 said:

The 98 runs from Suffern to Stony Point via 202

The 99 comes out of Montvale, runs near the turnpike, straight up to New City, then hitting all the county functions and Jawonio before taking 33 to Helen Hayes.

yes.

35 minutes ago, engineerboy6561 said:

The 98 looks like it's gonna carry air; it's running through a really spread out area that's pretty well off for 95% of the route, with the exception of the termini. Most of the people who live near it are likely to drive.

I din't know that, thanks for the advice! I've deleted it off the map.

35 minutes ago, engineerboy6561 said:

In practice, I'm not so sure because it looks like the 91 as it is is configured to connect the poorer, high-density patches of the county to the county seat and the hospitals, and the 99 doesn't really do that very well.

It is meant to cross the central area of the county, which is currently a transit desert.

[engineerboy6561]

49 minutes ago, Jova42R said:

yes

It does stop at Helen Hayes, I just couldn't put it on the map.

The map shows that it stops at Yeager

The 92 is unchanged except for the extension to Piermont

 

yes

it runs through Helen Hayes (I edited the map). The 99 runs through W Haverstraw

yes

it runs through Congers to better serve that area, but otherwise unchanged

yes.

I din't know that, thanks for the advice! I've deleted it off the map.

It is meant to cross the central area of the county, which is currently a transit desert.

The 99 might work out; I'm just not sure (since most trips to those places would now be 59->99 or 91->99 instead of being direct runs on the 91). I'd be interested to see how it plays out. I agree that the county center is a transit desert; it's just also the sort of spot where most people drive regardless of the bus's existence (density mostly under 3K people/square mile, median household income over 88K, 80+ percent single family homes along almost all the route except for Nanuet), so I'm not sure how well a bus serving those spots would be used. Maybe if you were able to coordinate the schedule with HudsonLink (have every other HudsonLink meet up with the 99 at Macy's) you could get ridership but I don't know how much.

[Jova42R]

21 minutes ago, engineerboy6561 said:

The 99 might work out; I'm just not sure (since most trips to those places would now be 59->99 or 91->99 instead of being direct runs on the 91). I'd be interested to see how it plays out. I agree that the county center is a transit desert; it's just also the sort of spot where most people drive regardless of the bus's existence (density mostly under 3K people/square mile, median household income over 88K, 80+ percent single family homes along almost all the route except for Nanuet), so I'm not sure how well a bus serving those spots would be used. Maybe if you were able to coordinate the schedule with HudsonLink (have every other HudsonLink meet up with the 99 at Macy's) you could get ridership but I don't know how much.

Another idea is to run the 98 from Suffern to Nycak via Montvale as a south Rockland connector, then have the 99 cross the Tappan Zee to Tarrytown (or run on the tramway that would have bus lanes)

@LaGuardia Link N Tra @B35 via Church @Deucey @OIG119 @engineerboy6561 @Cait Sith @gtNovaBusRTS9369 @EastFlatbushLarry thoughts on the L96's rolling stock? Would DMUs be best, or would it be more feasible to electrify it. If DMUs, which ones?

Edited May 14, 2020 by Jova42R

[Deucey]

6 hours ago, Jova42R said:

Another idea is to run the 98 from Suffern to Nycak via Montvale as a south Rockland connector, then have the 99 cross the Tappan Zee to Tarrytown (or run on the tramway that would have bus lanes)

@LaGuardia Link N Tra @B35 via Church @Deucey @OIG119 @engineerboy6561 @Cait Sith @gtNovaBusRTS9369 @EastFlatbushLarry thoughts on the L96's rolling stock? Would DMUs be best, or would it be more feasible to electrify it. If DMUs, which ones?

Since the new Tappan Zee was built without provision for rail, and would need a retrofit to do so - or built another bridge high enough for Neopanamax, you’ve just added billions to construct a rail line that’d almost never be used unless they lived in Westchester and wanted to go to Palisades.

(Not to mention that the Thruway wouldn’t allow it because they’d lose toll revenue needed to pay the bridge’s bonds off.)

[OIG119]

6 hours ago, Jova42R said:

Another idea is to run the 98 from Suffern to Nycak via Montvale as a south Rockland connector, then have the 99 cross the Tappan Zee to Tarrytown (or run on the tramway that would have bus lanes)

@LaGuardia Link N Tra @B35 via Church @Deucey @OIG119 @engineerboy6561 @Cait Sith @gtNovaBusRTS9369 @EastFlatbushLarry thoughts on the L96's rolling stock? Would DMUs be best, or would it be more feasible to electrify it. If DMUs, which ones?

Perhaps the light rail system could better serve passengers if it had a branch to Nanuet and Spring Valley and/or was extended to White Plains. That might be too much of a HudsonLink duplicate, however.

As for rolling stock DMUs like the Stadler GTWs on River LINE in New Jersey would be most appropriate. I don't think the system would have enough capacity to justify electrification.

[Jova42R]

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

Since the new Tappan Zee was built without provision for rail, and would need a retrofit to do so - or built another bridge high enough for Neopanamax, you’ve just added billions to construct a rail line that’d almost never be used unless they lived in Westchester and wanted to go to Palisades.

(Not to mention that the Thruway wouldn’t allow it because they’d lose toll revenue needed to pay the bridge’s bonds off.)

According to this article, it is built with provision for rail. See below about routing:

Quote

However, the bridge was structurally built for expansion with BRT and/or commuter rail at a later date. 

 

1 hour ago, OIG119 said:

Perhaps the light rail system could better serve passengers if it had a branch to Nanuet and Spring Valley and/or was extended to White Plains. That might be too much of a HudsonLink duplicate, however.

As for rolling stock DMUs like the Stadler GTWs on River LINE in New Jersey would be most appropriate. I don't think the system would have enough capacity to justify electrification.

Extending to White Plains would be wasting money. However, I was thinking that a branch to Nanuet (Exit 14 Park and Ride?) may be a good idea. In terms of DMUs, would GTWs be best? Maybe a railcar with a higher capacity (GTWs can only have three cars)

Thoughts on the bus routes?

[Jova42R]

15 hours ago, OIG119 said:

Perhaps the light rail system could better serve passengers if it had a branch to Nanuet and Spring Valley and/or was extended to White Plains. That might be too much of a HudsonLink duplicate, however.

As for rolling stock DMUs like the Stadler GTWs on River LINE in New Jersey would be most appropriate. I don't think the system would have enough capacity to justify electrification.

 

13 hours ago, Jova42R said:

According to this article, it is built with provision for rail. See below about routing:

 

Extending to White Plains would be wasting money. However, I was thinking that a branch to Nanuet (Exit 14 Park and Ride?) may be a good idea. In terms of DMUs, would GTWs be best? Maybe a railcar with a higher capacity (GTWs can only have three cars)

Thoughts on the bus routes?

Here is the revised L96:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&mid=1iPIjl4bFkf6V_kXI-HNxBXnPEfQD3Uwh&ll=41.044106600536914%2C-74.01035990000003&z=11

And the details:

• Fleet
  • Stadler FLIRT DMU (TEXRail Spec)
  • @engineerboy6561 If I wanted to achieve the TPH l listed below, how many would I need?
• TPH
  • L96A branch: 4TPH
  • L96B branch: 4TPH
  • L96C branch: 7TPH
  • This makes for 15TPH across the bridge, and 8TPH to Sparkill.
  • In addition, during the rush, there are shuttles (designated L96S) that run from Tarrytown to Nyack-Artopee at 5TPH, so 20TPH across the bridge during the rush.

@Collin @OrionVIIonM79 @B35 via Church  @T to Dyre Avenue @MeeP15-9112 @MysteriousBtrain @LaGuardia Link N Tra @Around the Horn@limitednyc @Gotham Bus Co @Gotham Bus Co. Thoughts?

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Jova42R

[R32-DTrain]

 

10 hours ago, Jova42R said:

 

Here is the revised L96:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&mid=1iPIjl4bFkf6V_kXI-HNxBXnPEfQD3Uwh&ll=41.044106600536914%2C-74.01035990000003&z=11

And the details:

• Fleet
  • Stadler FLIRT DMU (TEXRail Spec)
  • @engineerboy6561 If I wanted to achieve the TPH l listed below, how many would I need?
• TPH
  • L96A branch: 4TPH
  • L96B branch: 4TPH
  • L96C branch: 7TPH
  • This makes for 15TPH across the bridge, and 8TPH to Sparkill.
  • In addition, during the rush, there are shuttles (designated L96S) that run from Tarrytown to Nyack-Artopee at 5TPH, so 20TPH across the bridge during the rush.

@Collin @OrionVIIonM79 @B35 via Church  @T to Dyre Avenue @MeeP15-9112 @MysteriousBtrain @LaGuardia Link N Tra @Around the Horn@limitednyc @Gotham Bus Co @Gotham Bus Co. Thoughts?

 

I think this is a good idea, but how are you gonna run that section through central nyack? Stadler FLIRTs can't run on street, I think. Why not a different DMU (I don't think that a Stadler GTW would be good, though). Is there another DMU that could work?

[FamousNYLover]

On 5/13/2020 at 3:09 PM, Jova42R said:

Hi all!

I have made a redesign of Transit of Rockland’s bus routes. The goal is to improve service within the county, without having way too many routes. In addition, I have proposed a Rockland LRT that would run fromTarrytown to Sparkill, before splitting and running to Blauvelt and Harrington Park. This would most likely run DMUs, although @Collin and @B35 via Church would know better than me.

This map DOES NOT include HudsonLink or the 3 TOR loops.

map: 
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&mid=1r1riyOY2yOI-0cmDIDbiNgdLMkCEdE0T&ll=41.12856620718155%2C-74.02538485000002&z=11

 

Thoughts?

Have you taken Transport of Rockland before?

[Jova42R]

1 minute ago, FamousNYLover said:

Have you taken Transport of Rockland before?

Yes, I have. Thoughts on the redesign (and the Light Rail)?

[40 to 241st]

On 5/13/2020 at 3:09 PM, Jova42R said:

Hi all!

I have made a redesign of Transit of Rockland’s bus routes. The goal is to improve service within the county, without having way too many routes. In addition, I have proposed a Rockland LRT that would run fromTarrytown to Sparkill, before splitting and running to Blauvelt and Harrington Park. This would most likely run DMUs, although @Collin and @B35 via Church would know better than me.

This map DOES NOT include HudsonLink or the 3 TOR loops.

map: 
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?hl=en&mid=1r1riyOY2yOI-0cmDIDbiNgdLMkCEdE0T&ll=41.12856620718155%2C-74.02538485000002&z=11

 

Thoughts?

I don't think rockland needs a lightrail it would be better if you just make it a bus route