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CenSin

MTA Pulls Emergency Brake on All Major Projects as Financial Woes Mount

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54 minutes ago, Collin said:

This is political theater.  The whole state is crying poor in an attempt to get aid from the federal government.  They should get aid, but the Senate Republicans would rather see New York go bankrupt than give a dime to a blue state.  Also, people need to just move on from the R32s and R42s.  The R42s are definitely not coming back into service, and I'd say the R32s will not likely be put back into service.  It's over.

 

If the R179's aren't back in service by phase 3 which is in about 1 week and a half (July 6th), They gonna have no choice but to run the R32's since this would further increase ridership to where it'll be hard to social distance. Beaches are opening on the 1st so that alone is gonna cause ridership to go up on lines that go to beaches.

9 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

If the R211's are surely delayed because of the pandemic and all major projects are on hold, we are going to return to a major car shortage if (MTA) does not realize that they can not run full service without the R32's and R42's once we return to Phase 4.

Does this also mean that Queens Blvd CBTC is on indefinitely on hold? So that whole Jamaica/Coney Island yard swap was pretty much pointless?

 

If the R179's go back into service by phase 3 then the R32's wouldn't be needed but they are probably well aware of the current issue and probably gonna keep them in storage.

 

but if we don't get funding, they aren't gonna have a choice but to cut service and do layoffs.

Edited by R32 3838

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1 hour ago, Collin said:

Senate Republicans would rather see New York go bankrupt than give a dime to a blue state.

NY should secede from the union with it's other productive neighbors. California should too. Let's see them ‘publicans run the rest of what they have to the ground.

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This can all be solved in November without seceding from the union.  If the Senate flips, then Schumer becomes majority leader.  If he can get along with Cuomo, then it could turn out to be very good for any projects in New York that require federal funding.  Presidency has to flip too.  

They can't just freeze all capital spending forever or the system would crumble like it did in the 70s and 80s.  That would be more expensive in the long run.  Ever heard of the inverse square rule for deferred maintenance?

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7 minutes ago, CenSin said:

NY should secede from the union with it's other productive neighbors. California should too. Let's see them ‘publicans run the rest of what they have to the ground.

Yeah, let's break apart the union and massively shift global politics for some $. Senate Republicans may not have great foresight, but I'm sure they are somewhat aware of how much money their states get from NY and are also aware of the ramifications of the nation's most financially prominent state declaring bankruptcy. 

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28 minutes ago, CenSin said:

NY should secede from the union with it's other productive neighbors. California should too. Let's see them ‘publicans run the rest of what they have to the ground.

I've no problem with both coasts becoming Canadian provinces. Aside from better politics and a social safety net, 'America Lite' is a better America than America.

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13 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Yeah, let's break apart the union and massively shift global politics for some $. Senate Republicans may not have great foresight, but I'm sure they are somewhat aware of how much money their states get from NY and are also aware of the ramifications of the nation's most financially prominent state declaring bankruptcy. 

With the "culture war" the racists and religious zealots have been waging since 1995, and Trump being a lazy Francisco Franco, and factoring in the Confederacy contemplating secession because Obama was POTUS, this country is doomed unless the actual conservatives retake the Republican Party and reeducate it's voters to have an actual ideology instead of "I H8 Libruls and gays and trannies and Hillary and Obummer."

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22 minutes ago, Deucey said:

With the "culture war" the racists and religious zealots have been waging since 1995, and Trump being a lazy Francisco Franco, and factoring in the Confederacy contemplating secession because Obama was POTUS, this country is doomed unless the actual conservatives retake the Republican Party and reeducate it's voters to have an actual ideology instead of "I H8 Libruls and gays and trannies and Hillary and Obummer."

But...that's exactly what they have always been.

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9 minutes ago, Deucey said:

With the "culture war" the racists and religious zealots have been waging since 1995, and Trump being a lazy Francisco Franco, and factoring in the Confederacy contemplating secession because Obama was POTUS, this country is doomed unless the actual conservatives retake the Republican Party and reeducate it's voters to have an actual ideology instead of "I H8 Libruls and gays and trannies and Hillary and Obummer."

As far as I am aware most mainstream politicians didn't take secession after 2008/2012 seriously. The current Republican party may be a disaster but their antics shouldn't be an excuse to dissolve the union. I wouldn't seriously consider it unless they started to crack down on most civil liberties (ex. banning abortion) or undertook some foreign policy disaster. The country is far stronger united on a global scale and I fear splitting it will leave a global power vacuum that an authoritarian regime such as China will be more than happy to occupy. Trump and his type, like the Nixon crew, will be out sooner or later and the younger generations are much more level headed in terms of policy and objectives. People like to act as if actions such as seceding are small but don't understand the implications and how much can change as a result of it. 

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43 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

As far as I am aware most mainstream politicians didn't take secession after 2008/2012 seriously. The current Republican party may be a disaster but their antics shouldn't be an excuse to dissolve the union. I wouldn't seriously consider it unless they started to crack down on most civil liberties (ex. banning abortion) or undertook some foreign policy disaster. The country is far stronger united on a global scale and I fear splitting it will leave a global power vacuum that an authoritarian regime such as China will be more than happy to occupy. Trump and his type, like the Nixon crew, will be out sooner or later and the younger generations are much more level headed in terms of policy and objectives. People like to act as if actions such as seceding are small but don't understand the implications and how much can change as a result of it. 

I don’t know if the younger folks are more level-headed… at least the most vocal of them are on the extreme left. It’s all about “muh feels.” If critical thinking were featured more prominently, we’d have a lot more moderates. We wouldn’t have poor white folks vote against their own interests to own the libtards and keep them uppity folks down.

1 hour ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Yeah, let's break apart the union and massively shift global politics for some $. Senate Republicans may not have great foresight, but I'm sure they are somewhat aware of how much money their states get from NY and are also aware of the ramifications of the nation's most financially prominent state declaring bankruptcy. 

I don’t know about that… they are very good at one thing: deluding themselves.

Getting back on topic… I fear for the bus network if these financial woes start eating into the operational budget and Trump happens to be elected again next year. The bus network as it currently is is already bad. Today, I walked 3¼ miles (Beverley Road to Avenue U) lugging 35~45 pounds of groceries after I missed a connection to the B68. It’s not the first time either. I can’t imagine anyone finding buses attractive enough to wait for if it gets any worse.

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

but if we don't get funding, they aren't gonna have a choice but to cut service and do layoffs.

I hope that doesn’t mean essential service all over again. Money seems much tighter than when they last cut service back in 2010.

Edited by CenSin

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1 hour ago, GojiMet86 said:

But...that's exactly what they have always been.

It wasn't back before the 98 midterms when moderate and liberal (for the conservative spectrum) Republicans still existed.

1 hour ago, R68OnBroadway said:

The current Republican party may be a disaster but their antics shouldn't be an excuse to dissolve the union.

Dissolutions and rebellions aren't about the party - they happen when the government doesn't listen to the people's majority. The US mitigated that by having equal representation in the Senate (few, if any, other countries have that - since it makes populated areas subservient to trees and dirt).

But we're not in a situation where the government is listening to the people's majority - gerrymandering and balance of payments hijacked that to make trees and dirt superior to the cities that subsidize them.

It's why so many of us laid off in March at the beginning of Rona are staring at July 31 with real fears, and why we NYers are probably going to be stuck with severely reduced transport services and higher fares - the trees and dirt have the White House and Senate and aren't interested in passing financial assistance legislation.

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21 hours ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

The (W) , sure, let's go back to 2010 (sigh), but the (Z) ? Thing is, (Z)  elimination is something that's been discussed on this forum, and it would inextricably have to lead to an increase in (J) service (so either way, people wouldn't be losing out on much, unless they seriously decide to keep the (J) 's current schedule after eliminating the (Z) ...)

Um... do we even know if there's a set year for their arrival yet?

This just in, NASA builds a rail track that goes to the Moon!

I remember watching one of his daily press briefings... media scolded him about the LGA airtrain yet he just denied everything... no investment in buses, the airtrain is "super duper fast" going all the way to mets-willets... it was ridiculous

Probably won’t see the (W) eliminated again unless ridership on the Astoria line stays down. But I doubt that would happen. As for the (Z), the savings would only happen if (J) service is reduced overall. For example, an all stop (J) running only 8 tph. Every (J) station would get 8 tph, however the current all-stop (J)(Z) stations see their service reduced from 12 to 8 tph.

8 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Either way, anything that riders can reasonably interpret as a service cut will not go over well.  For them, cutting skip-stop service east of Broadway Junction will be a non-starter unless the MTA throws something in to sweeten the deal (such as peak express service west of the Junction).

But to have a peak express west of Broadway Junction would require both the local service to/from the Junction and the peak express to run at a combined frequency that’s greater than the current 12 tph offered by the (J) and (Z) outside of the “skipped” stops. Otherwise, the vast majority of (J) stations will have very infrequent service, which wouldn’t sit well with riders either.

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue

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18 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

But to have a peak express west of Broadway Junction would require both the local service to/from the Junction and the peak express to run at a combined frequency that’s greater than the current 12 tph offered by the (J) and (Z) outside of the “skipped” stops. Otherwise, the vast majority of (J) stations will have very infrequent service, which wouldn’t sit well with riders either.

Honestly, with (R) delays causing coverage problems that affect QBL, IDG why they don't run (M) as a peak express out of B-way Junction and run (Z) to Queens Village.

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59 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Honestly, with (R) delays causing coverage problems that affect QBL, IDG why they don't run (M) as a peak express out of B-way Junction and run (Z) to Queens Village.

 

you mean Middle Village and if you do that those people would raise hell. It makes better sense to keep the (M) where it's at currently

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This is a very concerning and scary time for NYCT, quite possibly it's biggest challenge since the financial crisis of 1975 and 9/11 combined. I have a really bad feeling the subway system is gonna start seriously deteriorating and we're gonna start seeing graffiti and deferred maintenance on every single subway car in service (just like the 1970s and 1980s) if the (MTA) isn't getting the money it needs to carry out improvements.

10 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

As far as I am aware most mainstream politicians didn't take secession after 2008/2012 seriously. The current Republican party may be a disaster but their antics shouldn't be an excuse to dissolve the union. I wouldn't seriously consider it unless they started to crack down on most civil liberties (ex. banning abortion) or undertook some foreign policy disaster. The country is far stronger united on a global scale and I fear splitting it will leave a global power vacuum that an authoritarian regime such as China will be more than happy to occupy.

Off topic here, but that worries me too. The nation cannot continue divided as it is right now, people are tired of things being like this, it's completely unsustainable. The last thing the world needs is to be one huge dictatorship, which would be a nightmare for humanity. 

Edited by TheNewYorkElevated
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14 hours ago, Collin said:

This is political theater.

Indeed.

But wait until Prince Andy finds out that this halt includes the Metro-North Penn Station access and Second Avenue Subway projects. Those two projects (especially SAS) are his babies, and he's gonna push them through come hell or high water.

(MTA) has had a bit of a rep sneaking in cuts and halts that are also Cuomo's pet projects (bus wifi) that he's had no problem overriding the (MTA) on. Seeing the MTA then backtrack with their proverbial tail tucked between their legs and say "oh, that cut was done in error, we have always been committed to x, y, and z" after Cuomo's office catches wind of them trying to cut one of his projects is always hilarious to see.

Edited by paulrivera

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Well, well, well:

https://gothamist.com/news/the-mta-is-facing-the-biggest-financial-crisis-in-its-history-everything-has-to-be-on-the-table

Quote

The MTA Is Facing The Biggest Financial Crisis In Its History: “Everything Has To Be On The Table”

By Stephen Nessen, WNYC | June 25, 2020 10:32 a.m.

The agency’s chief financial officer put up a slide at the board meeting with what exactly is on the table: wage freezes, reducing and/or delaying the 2020‐2024 Capital Program, non‐personnel expense reductions, reductions in force, fare and toll increases, service reductions, and “long‐term deficit financing.”

That last one has to be the worst of them because that’s more debt that later generations will be working to pay for.

There is a consolation prize, however:

Quote

And no one wants to be responsible for more fare hikes. Despite the dire situation, Chairman Foye pledged there would be no “pandemic fare increase” in the foreseeable future.

 

Edited by CenSin

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2 hours ago, paulrivera said:

But wait until Prince Andy finds out that this halt includes the Metro-North Penn Station access and Second Avenue Subway projects. Those two projects (especially SAS) are his babies, and he's gonna push them through come hell or high water.

He totally should push them through like he did with Phase 1.  Enough is enough of the constant delays and false starts with these projects.

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12 hours ago, Deucey said:

Honestly, with (R) delays causing coverage problems that affect QBL, IDG why they don't run (M) as a peak express out of B-way Junction and run (Z) to Queens Village.

I misunderstood this post for a minute for having (M) trains run express between Myrtle and Marcy (that would be hell btw), but having (Z) trains run to Middle Village would force it to become a full time route, I could back that if it weren't for the fact that Ridgewood has demand for midtown service already. (And they're also want to keep the (M) logo in their area like how Inwood would get salty if you replaced the (A) with some other line). TBH, the (MTA) should pilot this to see how well it can do, but that'll be dependent on rebuilding Myrtle Junction so that Middle Village bound trains don't cut in front of Peak Express trains.

But given that this thread is about the (MTA) facing another financial crisis, this won't happen anytime soon.

Edited by LaGuardia Link N Tra

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3 hours ago, CenSin said:

And no one wants to be responsible for more fare hikes. Despite the dire situation, Chairman Foye pledged there would be no “pandemic fare increase” in the foreseeable future.

This is a situation where a fare hike is absolutely necessary to keep the system afloat.

I would even suggest implementing peak/off-peak fares on the subway and buses to encourage social distancing and reduce crowding at peak hours. This could easily be done in conjunction with the full rollout of OMNY.

Edited by 67thAve

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15 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

you mean Middle Village and if you do that those people would raise hell. It makes better sense to keep the (M) where it's at currently

Astoria folks got over losing (R) and (Q); Brighton riders got over losing (D); Bronx folks survived without <C>. Middle Village will be okay.

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1 hour ago, Deucey said:

Astoria folks got over losing (R) and (Q); Brighton riders got over losing (D); Bronx folks survived without <C>. Middle Village will be okay.

 

Middle Village is a very high political Area. This is why we still Have the (M) today instead of it being the (V)

 

also you are taking away a one seat ride to midtown

Astoria, Brighton and the bronx still got one seat rides to midtown, there's a big difference. The (N) went the same way the (R) went until it reached 59th st-4th ave back then so they didn't care. Brighton lost the (D) but preferred 24/7 Broadway service vs. 24/7 6th ave service. The Bronx loosing the <C> didn't hurt them because it got replaced with the (B)

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26 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

 

Middle Village is a very high political Area. This is why we still Have the (M) today instead of it being the (V)

 

also you are taking away a one seat ride to midtown

Astoria, Brighton and the bronx still got one seat rides to midtown, there's a big difference. The (N) went the same way the (R) went until it reached 59th st-4th ave back then so they didn't care. Brighton lost the (D) but preferred 24/7 Broadway service vs. 24/7 6th ave service. The Bronx loosing the <C> didn't hurt them because it got replaced with the (B)

And all those people on the Concourse who took <C> to 8th Av, Chambers St, or Euclid, now have a two-seat ride - and a walk up stairs at 145th to try getting in a (C) or (A) train, or an (F) transfer to get to Jay Street for (A) or (C), or a two block walk to Midtown.

Or that three story walk at West 4th.

They're surviving.

All a Middle Village rider has to do is get off a (Z) or (M) at Myrtle and walk 12 feet.

(Sorry if I seem callous, but I have a three seat ride to Midtown, so my sympathies are non-existent when one beneficial change for the greater good gets hemmed up because of iconography or "I'll have to wait three minutes.")

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19 hours ago, Deucey said:

Honestly, with (R) delays causing coverage problems that affect QBL, IDG why they don't run (M) as a peak express out of B-way Junction and run (Z) to Queens Village.

I like this.  If (M) were express along Broadway Brooklyn, it can probably accommodate longer trains because the express stops have longer platforms.

Another alternative to get the same service pattern would be a (V) train from Bwy Jct - Forest Hills,  (brownM) Metropolitan to Broad St, (J) Jamaica Ctr to Broad St.  Cancel (Z) .

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32 minutes ago, mrsman said:

I like this.  If (M) were express along Broadway Brooklyn, it can probably accommodate longer trains because the express stops have longer platforms.

Another alternative to get the same service pattern would be a (V) train from Bwy Jct - Forest Hills,  (brownM) Metropolitan to Broad St, (J) Jamaica Ctr to Broad St.  Cancel (Z) .

There is always the management aspect people forget when sending full-length trains there. The most important thing is to leave options on the table for reroutes. As long as there is the possibility of a train getting rerouted to a station that doesn’t support the full length, then there should not be any full-length trains. Broadway–Lafayette Street is the gatekeeper station. Anything that gets into the “zone” must be short enough to fit any possible station the train might be routed through.

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On 6/24/2020 at 1:39 PM, 67thAve said:

I think that the proper course of action for the MTA at this point to salvage the budget requires some drastic actions. I think the core of this should be the privatization of the services which the MTA provides, in conjunction with deunionizing transit employees to reduce overtime, benefit pay, and various other cost-intensive forms of spending. The MTA would therefore shift its focus from an organization directly involved in the operations of transit to one which merely oversees network, schedule, and fare coordination.

I wouldn't deunionize, but I definitely would support the privatization of part of the company. Buses should be privatized by boro, the subway, LIRR, and MNR should be tendered. Like you said, the MTA will be responsible for the intergration of fares and transfers. There would also be penalty for performance related issues such as accidents and OTP. That way we may reduce cost and hopefully shield operations from NY politics. 

Regarding the comparsion to NICE, if NICE has the same operating subsidy as the MTA in 2011 of 9 million from Nassau, there wouldn't be any cuts to the service. Simply put, I think NICE did a pretty good job allocating buses and resources in the entire system

On 6/24/2020 at 1:20 PM, R68OnBroadway said:

Given that Prince Andrew will likely only step in to save what brings him nice ribbon cuttings, here's how I see projects going:

Most likely saved:

ESA

Elevator installations already in progress 

R211s

50/50 chance:

Service cuts - (W)(Z) elimination?

CBTC delays (excluding places where work is underway already)

R262 delivery pushed back further

Elimination or trimming down of late night service

Most likely DOA:

Bus network - Borough redesigns will be a trojan horse for service cuts

Station renovations - Most will be cut and projects like the Nostrand exit reopening will probably be quietly terminated

Replacements for R68s - those cars will probably be around much longer and reach their late 40s/early 50s

 

 

The only way to save money from cutting the (Z) is to cut back the entire Jamaica Line to once every 10 minutes.

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