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aemoreira81

Stapleton bus detours and lack of bus service

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The issue is significant enough to warrant its own thread. For a while, the S51, S52, S74, S76, and S78 (and relevant related Limited-Stop buses) were detoured completely away from Stapleton, cutting the area off from bus service completely. Today, the S52, S74 (northbound only) and S78 remain on detour...until further notice. This is because of 7 incidents in 9 days between June 17 and June 25, culminating with a driver being injured by a trash can thrown at a bus. The S51, southbound S74, and S76 have since been restored, but the S52 and S78 remain on detour with no service on Tompkins Avenue or Targee Street north of Vanderbilt Avenue (including the portion of Van Duzer Street into which Targee Street flows) (detours via Bay Street instead).

A paratransit bus was also hit on July 16. The police believe that all 8 incidents were done by the same person. All of the incidents are in the vicinity of the Stapleton Houses.

https://www.silive.com/news/2020/07/an-entire-community-is-being-denied-bus-service-mta-detours-buses-in-stapleton-for-a-month-after-vandalism.html

What I don't get is: why doesn't the MTA assign plainclothes police officers to ride the buses that pass in the vicinity of the Stapleton Houses to catch this perp?

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1 minute ago, aemoreira81 said:

The issue is significant enough to warrant its own thread. For a while, the S51, S52, S74, S76, and S78 (and relevant related Limited-Stop buses) were detoured completely away from Stapleton, cutting the area off from bus service completely. Today, the S52, S74 (northbound only) and S78 remain on detour...until further notice. This is because of 7 incidents in 9 days between June 17 and June 25, culminating with a driver being injured by a trash can thrown at a bus. The S51, southbound S74, and S76 have since been restored, but the S52 and S78 remain on detour with no service on Tompkins Avenue or Targee Street north of Vanderbilt Avenue (including the portion of Van Duzer Street into which Targee Street flows) (detours via Bay Street instead).

A paratransit bus was also hit on July 16. The police believe that all 8 incidents were done by the same person. All of the incidents are in the vicinity of the Stapleton Houses.

https://www.silive.com/news/2020/07/an-entire-community-is-being-denied-bus-service-mta-detours-buses-in-stapleton-for-a-month-after-vandalism.html

What I don't get is: why doesn't the MTA assign plainclothes police officers to ride the buses that pass in the vicinity of the Stapleton Houses to catch this perp?

Shouldn't your question be, why doesn't the NYPD assign plainclothes police officers to ride the buses?

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36 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Shouldn't your question be, why doesn't the NYPD assign plainclothes police officers to ride the buses?

In 2017, I would have asked that about the NYPD. However, with Andrew Cuomo growing the MTA Police force, and also having state troopers patrolling within city limits, this operation could be run independently of the NYC Police...using MTA Police and state troopers.

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56 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

In 2017, I would have asked that about the NYPD. However, with Andrew Cuomo growing the MTA Police force, and also having state troopers patrolling within city limits, this operation could be run independently of the NYC Police...using MTA Police and state troopers.

And why should that be on the MTA or the state troopers?

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3 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

What I don't get is: why doesn't the MTA assign plainclothes police officers to ride the buses that pass in the vicinity of the Stapleton Houses to catch this perp?

MTA inaction is not the problem here.

1 hour ago, aemoreira81 said:

In 2017, I would have asked that about the NYPD. However, with Andrew Cuomo growing the MTA Police force, and also having state troopers patrolling within city limits, this operation could be run independently of the NYC Police...using MTA Police and state troopers.

I was unaware that the NYPD went completely defunct after 2017....

What is this love affair you have with NYS troopers anyway? Let me guess, the Marines should be summoned to keep kids from getting drowned at the local pool? The Air Force should teach kids how to properly land paper planes? Come on with this.....

 

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22 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

MTA inaction is not the problem here.

I was unaware that the NYPD went completely defunct after 2017....

What is this love affair you have with NYS troopers anyway? Let me guess, the Marines should be summoned to keep kids from getting drowned at the local pool? The Air Force should teach kids how to properly land paper planes? Come on with this.....

 

State troopers have no business being in New York City. However, in recent years sir Andrew has dispatched a set of State Troopers within NYC to do the NYPD’s job especially on highways (meanwhile NYPD has Highway Patrol) and doing pull overs on local streets too. 

Their only purpose in the city is to catch toll invaders on bridges and tunnels but as of late spotted on the Belt Parkway, Cross Island, Cross Bay Boulevard, Marine Parkway Bridge, Kings Plaza, Bklyn and The Bronx. 

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4 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Shouldn't your question be, why doesn't the NYPD assign plainclothes police officers to ride the buses?

Because people kept complaining about cops being on the subway and buses, at least to my knowledge.

I know that (MTA) didn't do a good job of communicating with this detour, but SI really has to stop with this "forgotten borough" nonsense. The reason for the detour is for the safety of the operators, but SI riders don't seem to care, like they do with other things 😒.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Because people kept complaining about cops being on the subway and buses, at least to my knowledge.

I know that (MTA) didn't do a good job of communicating with this detour, but SI really has to stop with this "forgotten borough" nonsense. The reason for the detour is for the safety of the operators, but SI riders don't seem to care, like they do with other things 😒.

Neither of the bolded points have anything to do with the situation at hand. The complaints about cops being on subways and buses were mostly in every borough but Staten Island(as the MTA rolled out TBTA cops on the Island to manage rampant farebeating pre-COVID). And I'm not sure where the forgotten borough logic is coming from when its happening from within the borough.

Edited by Cait Sith
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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Neither of the bolded points have anything to do with the situation at hand. The complaints about cops being on subways and buses were mostly in every borough but Staten Island(as the MTA rolled out TBTA cops on the Island to manage rampant farebeating pre-COVID). And I'm not sure where the forgotten borough logic is coming from when its happening from within the borough.

I didn't explain it right, I use the term "forgotten borough" because whenever a service change like this happens, they are quick to use that response and continue to complain and act like (MTA) dosen't care about them without any regard for the actual situation.

Edited by Lawrence St

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

I didn't explain it right, I use the term "forgotten borough" because whenever a service change like this happens, they are quick to use that response and continue to complain and act like (MTA) dosen't care about them without any regard for the actual situation.

Because until recently, it was true. You haven't lived on Staten Island to understand the full picture. As a former Staten Islander, I get it.  Really old, beat up buses. No service increases for a long time despite needing them. There have been substantial improvements for Staten Island overall over the last several years, but when I lived there, the buses were incredibly run down. We had lots of service cuts in 2010 that negatively impacted the borough moreso than others because the entire place is devoid of subways.

In this case, the area in question is very hilly, so having the buses detour is a big deal. Similar to your complaints about overnight express bus service being cut. It made your commute much more difficult and longer.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

State troopers have no business being in New York City. However, in recent years sir Andrew has dispatched a set of State Troopers within NYC to do the NYPD’s job especially on highways (meanwhile NYPD has Highway Patrol) and doing pull overs on local streets too. 

Their only purpose in the city is to catch toll invaders on bridges and tunnels but as of late spotted on the Belt Parkway, Cross Island, Cross Bay Boulevard, Marine Parkway Bridge, Kings Plaza, Bklyn and The Bronx. 

From what I understand, there's somewhat of a rift between NYPD & NYS troopers..... Yeah there's an (enhanced) vilification of NYPD right now with this crisis & what not, but as far as local matters, they still need to get on their job...... Don't know how true this is, but supposedly there's been an influx of cops either walking off the job, retiring early, or (conveniently) put in for vacations..... Even if that's the case (considering that there aren't many troopers in troop L & troop NYC anyway), it's still no reason to start summoning NYS troopers from other troops across the state to troop NYC......

It sounds like he's (AEMoreira) given up on the NYPD & expects (in this case) the MTA to take on the onus....

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Because people kept complaining about cops being on the subway and buses, at least to my knowledge.

I know that (MTA) didn't do a good job of communicating with this detour, but SI really has to stop with this "forgotten borough" nonsense. The reason for the detour is for the safety of the operators, but SI riders don't seem to care, like they do with other things 😒.

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I didn't explain it right, I use the term "forgotten borough" because whenever a service change like this happens, they are quick to use that response and continue to complain and act like (MTA) dosen't care about them without any regard for the actual situation.

In other words, you're imposing the "forgotten borough" rhetoric onto them here.....

2 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Neither of the bolded points have anything to do with the situation at hand. The complaints about cops being on subways and buses were mostly in every borough but Staten Island(as the MTA rolled out TBTA cops on the Island to manage rampant farebeating pre-COVID). And I'm not sure where the forgotten borough logic is coming from when its happening from within the borough.

The best argument available is that Stapleton resident's commentary in the article (Buford), regarding the MTA depriving the community of bus service, because of the actions of one nutcase.... To be frank, if the MTA were to leave buses along that part of the route (continuing to get vandalized), that would be tantamount to being forgotten about....

Edited by B35 via Church

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2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

From what I understand, there's somewhat of a rift between NYPD & NYS troopers..... Yeah there's an (enhanced) vilification of NYPD right now with this crisis & what not, but as far as local matters, they still need to get on their job...... Don't know how true this is, but supposedly there's been an influx of cops either walking off the job, retiring early, or (conveniently) put in for vacations..... Even if that's the case (considering that there aren't many troopers in troop L & troop NYC anyway), it's still no reason to start summoning NYS troopers from other troops across the state to troop NYC......

Accurate on the last paragraph.  The most I’ve see is Troop T (Thruway Westchester-Albany) and troopers from Poughkeepsie helping out Troop NYC. 
 

Whatever his disposition about the NYPD at the end of the day PD has to do their job.  Speaking about (MTA) PD I saw 2 cruisers at Flatbush/Nostrand earlier today while driving down Flatbush. 

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The detoured S78 moves just as fast along Bay St, if not faster.  It's a safer, busier road.  The detour is not that far of a walk for those who need the exact stops.  The hills along the original stretch aren't that bad - certainly nowhere near as bad as the hills in Harlem (Amsterdam Ave) or San Francisco.  I'd imagine the drivers would have a valid safety reason to refuse to drive the buses if the MTA insisted on maintaining the current route, given the large number of incidents.  The union would likely back them up.  Political & budget reasons may hinder undercover officers from riding the bus thru the affected area.

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Posted (edited)

NYS Troopers just like most states have jurisdiction throughout the entire state so it’s not up to MTA or NYC where they go. For the case of the island Stapleton has to get it together but the MTA also lied about the number of incidents that forced the detour so I can’t really side with them either.

Edited by Nova Fly Guy

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6 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

State troopers have no business being in New York City. However, in recent years sir Andrew has dispatched a set of State Troopers within NYC to do the NYPD’s job especially on highways (meanwhile NYPD has Highway Patrol) and doing pull overs on local streets too. 

Their only purpose in the city is to catch toll invaders on bridges and tunnels but as of late spotted on the Belt Parkway, Cross Island, Cross Bay Boulevard, Marine Parkway Bridge, Kings Plaza, Bklyn and The Bronx. 

 

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

From what I understand, there's somewhat of a rift between NYPD & NYS troopers..... Yeah there's an (enhanced) vilification of NYPD right now with this crisis & what not, but as far as local matters, they still need to get on their job...... Don't know how true this is, but supposedly there's been an influx of cops either walking off the job, retiring early, or (conveniently) put in for vacations..... Even if that's the case (considering that there aren't many troopers in troop L & troop NYC anyway), it's still no reason to start summoning NYS troopers from other troops across the state to troop NYC......

It sounds like he's (AEMoreira) given up on the NYPD & expects (in this case) the MTA to take on the onus....

In other words, you're imposing the "forgotten borough" rhetoric onto them here.....

The best argument available is that Stapleton resident's commentary in the article (Buford), regarding the MTA depriving the community of bus service, because of the actions of one nutcase.... To be frank, if the MTA were to leave buses along that part of the route (continuing to get vandalized), that would be tantamount to being forgotten about....

 

39 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Accurate on the last paragraph.  The most I’ve see is Troop T (Thruway Westchester-Albany) and troopers from Poughkeepsie helping out Troop NYC. 
 

Whatever his disposition about the NYPD at the end of the day PD has to do their job.  Speaking about (MTA) PD I saw 2 cruisers at Flatbush/Nostrand earlier today while driving down Flatbush. 

So the NYPD vs. NYSP thing has been going on since about '16 or '17; part of the larger feud between Scumo and deBozo.  Basically, it's a pissing contest between them two to see who has more political muscle.

https://citylimits.org/2018/04/27/urbanerd-as-nypd-arrests-fewer-other-police-agencies-bust-more-in-nyc/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/26/nyregion/cuomos-deployment-of-troopers-in-city-frustrates-police-leaders.html

Before then, I never saw state troopers within NYC- there's really no need for them within city limits.  They belong on dirt roads in Yates County, not the Belt Parkway.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

So the NYPD vs. NYSP thing has been going on since about '16 or '17; part of the larger feud between Scumo and deBozo.  Basically, it's a pissing contest between them two to see who has more political muscle.

https://citylimits.org/2018/04/27/urbanerd-as-nypd-arrests-fewer-other-police-agencies-bust-more-in-nyc/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/26/nyregion/cuomos-deployment-of-troopers-in-city-frustrates-police-leaders.html

Before then, I never saw state troopers within NYC- there's really no need for them within city limits.  They belong on dirt roads in Yates County, not the Belt Parkway.

I would only see them at the Brooklyn end of the BBT (Manhattan bound direction, parked over there near that TBTA booth), and it was very rare....

Edited by B35 via Church

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9 hours ago, RtrainBlues said:

The detoured S78 moves just as fast along Bay St, if not faster.  It's a safer, busier road.  The detour is not that far of a walk for those who need the exact stops.  The hills along the original stretch aren't that bad - certainly nowhere near as bad as the hills in Harlem (Amsterdam Ave) or San Francisco.  I'd imagine the drivers would have a valid safety reason to refuse to drive the buses if the MTA insisted on maintaining the current route, given the large number of incidents.  The union would likely back them up.  Political & budget reasons may hinder undercover officers from riding the bus thru the affected area.

Budget issues? Please. Some departments have been hit by cuts, but we're talking about a few undercover cops to deal with ONE individual.  Wouldn't cost much... Additionally, if you are able bodied, the hills aren't a problem. If you are an elderly person or have lots of bags, especially in heat like this, then yes, I can see the hills being a problem. That is actually why bus ridership is high in certain areas... Because people don't want to walk up hills, matter how able-bodied they are.

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11 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

 

 

So the NYPD vs. NYSP thing has been going on since about '16 or '17; part of the larger feud between Scumo and deBozo.  Basically, it's a pissing contest between them two to see who has more political muscle.

https://citylimits.org/2018/04/27/urbanerd-as-nypd-arrests-fewer-other-police-agencies-bust-more-in-nyc/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/26/nyregion/cuomos-deployment-of-troopers-in-city-frustrates-police-leaders.html

Before then, I never saw state troopers within NYC- there's really no need for them within city limits.  They belong on dirt roads in Yates County, not the Belt Parkway.

I will say this. As a former airport employee I’ve seen NYSP patrol JFK and now more recently LGA again for the sole purpose of catching speeders and toll evaders via the Triboro and now working in Manhattan I’ve seen them on the West Side Highway- Downtown (WTC area) since the barracks are not too far from 2 Broadway. So they are out here. 

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11 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I would only see them at the Brooklyn end of the BBT (Manhattan bound direction, parked over there near that TBTA booth), and it was very rare....

Not very rare NYS troopers have always been a heavy presence at BBT.

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1 hour ago, Nova Fly Guy said:

Not very rare NYS troopers have always been a heavy presence at BBT.

Not around that timeframe in question & their presence wasn't heavy at all.....

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6 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Not around that timeframe in question & their presence wasn't heavy at all.....

As long as I been around Brooklyn 30+ years  NYS Troops has always had a presence at the BBT entrance same for the Tri Boro.

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3 minutes ago, Nova Fly Guy said:

As long as I been around Brooklyn 30+ years  NYS Troops has always had a presence at the BBT entrance same for the Tri Boro.

I seldom ever use the Triborough, but as far as (the Brooklyn side of the) BBT, I always saw more TBTA officers than NYS troopers..... A couple years after Vision Zero kicked off in NYC, I noticed they would be stationed at the BBT more often (no more than a car or two)..... Heavy would definitely not be a word I would use to describe their presence before the fact, and not even now (even though it's increased since then)....

If you saw them at a greater frequency than I did back then, then it is what it is, but let's not make it out to be like they have whole squadrons over there....

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5 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I seldom ever use the Triborough, but as far as (the Brooklyn side of the) BBT, I always saw more TBTA officers than NYS troopers..... A couple years after Vision Zero kicked off in NYC, I noticed they would be stationed at the BBT more often (no more than a car or two)..... Heavy would definitely not be a word I would use to describe their presence before the fact, and not even now (even though it's increased since then)....

If you saw them at a greater frequency than I did back then, then it is what it is, but let's not make it out to be like they have whole squadrons over there....

They Actually do from dump trucks to SUV as for the TBTA that mostly the Manhattan side. 

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All I know is that me personally, I almost never saw State Police in the City before 2016.  Maybe once I saw a foot patrol at Grand Central in 2014, but in the 15-20 years before that the only law enforcement units other than NYPD or feds I ever saw here were the NYC Sheriff's Office.

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Steering this thread back on topic, if Stapleton residents like this Buford guy feel so strongly that the MTA's making them "suffer" with the diversions, perhaps the good people of Stapleton can band together & carry out some good old fashioned street justice against the "one person did something that was wrong"......

The MTA certainly has its faults, but this is one time I place zero blame for their actions here.... The MTA isn't the villain all the time.

 

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