Rutgers Tunnel Shutdown

[RTOMan]

On 9/15/2020 at 10:38 AM, Missabassie said:

I agree. Some of that stuff is way over the top....

Its cool though some of the ideas make sense..

Some are just plain buff fantasy..

[RTOMan]

On 9/8/2020 at 12:53 PM, NewFlyer 230 said:

Riders will definitely be confused with the  and  swap. I remember a few years ago, a G.O caused the  to run via 8th Ave via 53rd and the  went to 2nd Ave via 6Av/63rd street and I remember hearing some passengers expressing how stupid it was to be on the  and it’s making  stops when they needed service along 8th Ave. A lot of people are not like us when it comes to these service changes. We would see this and be like oh okay the  is the  and vise versa. The average person will be like “where the f*** am I going”. We all know that the average person doesn’t even read the signs even on a NTT and will still ask, “Is this the (insert train route)?” I simply shake my head when the announcement is playing they look up at the FIND and still ask what train they are on. 

I thought it would be easier to have the  run between Jamaica and Coney Island via 53rd street & 8th Ave and have the  run from 179th street and terminate at Delancey via 6th Ave of course. That way people would know that the two trains run on their regular routes but because of construction the  would be extended to replace the . People would simply need to transfer at West 4th like they already would have to under the MTA’s own service change. 

I haven't seen anyone confused yet..

If the CR makes the announcements they know what they gotta do.

Its only three days in ill give it time..

[bobtehpanda]

On 9/14/2020 at 3:26 AM, mrsman said:

Once SAS opens (to Downtown), you could have 15 TPH  and 15 TPH  trains that start at 2nd ave or Astoria.   express and  local along Broadway, and then both lines merge together to the Manhattan Bridge.

Wasn't the post-2010 local and express over the bridge a hot mess?

[NewFlyer 230]

2 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Wasn't the post-2010 local and express over the bridge a hot mess?

It sure was as the  would block any  or  train it was in front of. But then again the merge problem still exist at 34th street when the  has to switch tracks. 

[mrsman]

3 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

It sure was as the  would block any  or  train it was in front of. But then again the merge problem still exist at 34th street when the  has to switch tracks. 

The problem was that the  occupied both local and express tracks, thus blocking both.  My sentence quoted above pre-supposes no  trains at all.  The only two services that exist on Broadway would be  express and  local, both run at half capacity, that would then merge together.  I see this as being similar to the  merge at Hoyt-Schermerhorn or the  merge at Prospect Park.

[bobtehpanda]

On 9/21/2020 at 2:15 AM, mrsman said:

The problem was that the  occupied both local and express tracks, thus blocking both.  My sentence quoted above pre-supposes no  trains at all.  The only two services that exist on Broadway would be  express and  local, both run at half capacity, that would then merge together.  I see this as being similar to the  merge at Hoyt-Schermerhorn or the  merge at Prospect Park.

This merge would still be problematic, assuming you're just not trashing all Downtown/Tunnel service entirely. Any second local service would be a problem. And the express would be half utilized.

[mrsman]

On 9/21/2020 at 5:15 AM, mrsman said:

The problem was that the  occupied both local and express tracks, thus blocking both.  My sentence quoted above pre-supposes no  trains at all.  The only two services that exist on Broadway would be  express and  local, both run at half capacity, that would then merge together.  I see this as being similar to the  merge at Hoyt-Schermerhorn or the  merge at Prospect Park.

 

16 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

This merge would still be problematic, assuming you're just not trashing all Downtown/Tunnel service entirely. Any second local service would be a problem. And the express would be half utilized.

Yes, in a way I am ridding the Broadway line of Downtown service as the plan is to have all Montague tunnel trains ride up the 8th Ave local line.  All Broadway service (both local and express) will run to the Manhattan Bridge South tracks. This necessarily means that both the local and the express tracks will each run at half-capacity.

The point of the design is to run as much capacity at the portal from Brooklyn to Manhattan as much as possible.  As there are more trunk line tracks than portals, there is no way to run maximum service on the trunk lines, unless more portals to Brooklyn are built.

Run full capacity of Cranberry tunnel to the 8th Ave express

Montague tunnel (with new construction) to the 8th Ave local

Rutgers tunnel at half-capacity to the 6th Ave local (to leave room for some Williamsburg Bridge trains to 6th Ave local).  You can't have full capacity on the Rutgers tunnel unless you cancel the  move from W Bridge to 6th Ave local.

Manhattan Bridge North tracks to the 6th Ave express

Manhattan Bridge South tracks to the Broadway lines.  You could run all lines express and close down the local station.  You could run all lines local and not use the express tracks at all.  Or you could split the approach, with each line getting half service.

---------

If all of the above seems too drastic, then don't build the connection to the 8th Ave local to the Montague tunnel.  But the point is that you simply cannot run 6 trunk lines at full capacity if there are only 5 portals to Brooklyn.  One of those trunk lines is not making it to Brooklyn and its capacity will be limited by its turnback.  Given the current layout of tracks, the current set of tracks that are limited are the 8th Ave local which terminate at WTC.  Full capacity at Cranberry tunnel, Rutgers tunnel, Montague tunnel, Man Bridge N, and Man Bridge S would mean respectively full capacity at 8th Ave express, 6th Ave local, Broadway local, 6th Ave express, and Broadway express

 

 

[RTOMan]

No Rutgers Tube shut down this week on Late PMs..

Foxes going Normal past Roosevelt ave southbound, Northbound Via 53rd street past 2200 hrs...

[LGA Link N Train]

On 9/23/2020 at 6:42 AM, mrsman said:

Yes, in a way I am ridding the Broadway line of Downtown service as the plan is to have all Montague tunnel trains ride up the 8th Ave local line.  All Broadway service (both local and express) will run to the Manhattan Bridge South tracks. This necessarily means that both the local and the express tracks will each run at half-capacity.

I mean, you could rebuild and reactivate the City Hall Lower Level if you plan to route 8th Avenue service through Montague. This way, you don't interfere with the express services on Broadway.

[Vulturious]

1 hour ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

I mean, you could rebuild and reactivate the City Hall Lower Level if you plan to route 8th Avenue service through Montague. This way, you don't interfere with the express services on Broadway.

Honestly, having the  replacing the  to Bay Ridge in Brooklyn would probably be a much better service than keeping the  in Brooklyn. It just ruins other service causing delays for  and  in Brooklyn. The amount of times I've been on a  train rerouted local on 4th Av because of not enough  trains, it's not even funny. It also forces me to have to run express on West End (which I personally don't mind), but having to be forced to run express skipping my stop is just annoying. With the  around, it'll help with the service without having to run an express train local. If anything, we can still have the  extended.