NICE to get 60 Gillig buses to replace Orions

[Railfanner Jake]

One part of this order that I don't know yet and am really interested in is, did they order the standard Advantage or did they go with the BRT styling ? 

[Cait Sith]

On 4/6/2021 at 9:58 PM, Railfanner Jake said:

One part of this order that I don't know yet and am really interested in is, did they order the standard Advantage or did they go with the BRT styling ? 

Word is that they're going BRT.

 

On 4/5/2021 at 5:58 AM, BreeddekalbL said:

gilligs are a pita for maintenance and drivingin the rain 

if you put some sensor under the driver side and it rains and the rain slicks kicks up when driving will sloe the bus down 

better make room for long term stay in maintenance cause the slightest problem will make em stay

how do i know? where i live its gillig city

The problem with that assessment is that not every agency specs their buses the same.

[GojiMet86]

Looks like the Gilligs will have the BRT styling front. Photo courtesy of Steve Souza:

 

[Lex]

10 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

Looks like the Gilligs will have the BRT styling front. Photo courtesy of Steve Souza:

 

I'm more interested in that rear door. Say what you will about the rear doors on most of the MTA's buses, but the default rear door that Gillig's used for all these years is narrower than the front door, which is especially bad when considering that the front door isn't exactly the widest in the industry.

[NewFlyer 230]

42 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

Looks like the Gilligs will have the BRT styling front. Photo courtesy of Steve Souza:

 

Nice, I’m glad they went with the BRT version because the regular front looked so old school. These look similar to the XN40’s that NICE has. 

[BreeddekalbL]

The back door is a pita when it goes haywire they will have to do a whole shutdown restart etc 

[trainfan22]

That Gillig kind of looks like an Nova LFS CNG in that photo.

 

 

 

Can't wait until these Gilligs hit service!

[FLX9304]

On 9/12/2020 at 12:44 PM, GojiMet86 said:

Just saw the post.

It was from Trevor Logan.

Why other people insisted on being mysterious about this source is beyond me, especially how much he has contributed to the community.

@GojiMet86 is right and I knew when NICE left the MTA near 10 years ago this coming December, it wasn’t gonna be pretty. I never liked Gilligs since I was in Harrisburg 20 years ago, with the exception of the Phantoms that ran with Detroit Diesel engines. Them boxed size buses are not even that attractive. But since NICE does not wanna spend that money on “fancy” buses like the NFS and Novas, let them cry about having Gilligs. 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[NewFlyer 230]

5 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

@GojiMet86 is right and I knew when NICE left the MTA near 10 years ago this coming December, it wasn’t gonna be pretty. I never liked Gilligs since I was in Harrisburg 20 years ago, with the exception of the Phantoms that ran with Detroit Diesel engines. Them boxed size buses are not even that attractive. But since NICE does not wanna spend that money on “fancy” buses like the NFS and Novas, let them cry about having Gilligs. 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Folks have said that the quality of Gillig’s have improve so honestly only time will tell. I’m just a little worried about how long these buses will hold up because good maintenance isn’t what NICE is known for. However based on my personal experience of taking NICE bus over the past 8 months it seems that things have improved somewhat. I haven’t noticed as much breakdowns and I haven’t experience a bus M.I.A so I just hope that things continue to improve from here. 

[MTA Bus]

11 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

@GojiMet86 is right and I knew when NICE left the MTA near 10 years ago this coming December, it wasn’t gonna be pretty. I never liked Gilligs since I was in Harrisburg 20 years ago, with the exception of the Phantoms that ran with Detroit Diesel engines. Them boxed size buses are not even that attractive. But since NICE does not wanna spend that money on “fancy” buses like the NFS and Novas, let them cry about having Gilligs. 😂😂😂😂😂😂

I can tell you haven't ridden a Gillig made in the last 5 years. Their build quality has improved a lot and they're actually getting up there with Nova and New Flyer in terms of customers.

[FLX9304]

39 minutes ago, MTA Bus said:

I can tell you haven't ridden a Gillig made in the last 5 years. Their build quality has improved a lot and they're actually getting up there with Nova and New Flyer in terms of customers.

Trust me on this: I wouldn’t be writing this if you said that. I have rode every one of their productions. That’s why I don’t like them at all. 

[R10 2952]

Surprised they're going with the futuristic design version; the traditional look of the standard version is less pretentious if you ask me...

[AJ023]

On 5/8/2021 at 6:45 PM, R10 2952 said:

Surprised they're going with the futuristic design version; the traditional look of the standard version is less pretentious if you ask me...

I don’t ride on commuter bus but I do see a lot of Nice bus in Nassau county and the new Gillig combined with the New Flyers will make the Nice bus fleet actually look really good.  Apparently they neglect the Orions even though they were I guess taken over from MTA Bus and never maintained well as MTA’s Orions perform better.  As the New Flyers and soon Gillig”s will be purchased by Nice bus,I would hope that they would maintain these new bus better.  

[Cait Sith]

7 hours ago, AJ023 said:

I don’t ride on commuter bus but I do see a lot of Nice bus in Nassau county and the new Gillig combined with the New Flyers will make the Nice bus fleet actually look really good.  Apparently they neglect the Orions even though they were I guess taken over from MTA Bus and never maintained well as MTA’s Orions perform better.  As the New Flyers and soon Gillig”s will be purchased by Nice bus,I would hope that they would maintain these new bus better.  

MTA's Orions doesn't get the amount of mileage and abuse that NICE Bus gets on theirs. NICE's Orions have more wear and tear because of the far distances they go and the road conditions along various routes. Their buses goes through much more rough conditions than the MTA, as the MTA is mostly stop-and-go for the most part, along with buses being governed to slower speeds. Their oldest Orions are also 13 years old. Most of their Orions have more miles put on them than our oldest OG Hybrids. The closest buses we got that almost matches NICE's in terms of fleet mileage are the Orion VIIs in Staten Island.

The Orions were taken from Long Island Bus, and went through a dark period at NICE when former County Executive Ed Mangano slashed NICE's funding several times, causing problems in a lot of areas including maintenance, service and cleanliness. They've been recovering from that as funding has been coming to them more and more now that Laura Curran is the County Executive.

 

On 5/7/2021 at 12:11 PM, FLX9304 said:

@GojiMet86 is right and I knew when NICE left the MTA near 10 years ago this coming December, it wasn’t gonna be pretty. I never liked Gilligs since I was in Harrisburg 20 years ago, with the exception of the Phantoms that ran with Detroit Diesel engines. Them boxed size buses are not even that attractive. But since NICE does not wanna spend that money on “fancy” buses like the NFS and Novas, let them cry about having Gilligs. 😂😂😂😂😂😂

On the contrary, NICE have been having problems with the Xcelsiors which is also part of the reason why cutaways have been used on regular routes. New Flyer has been lowballing bids to win, even going below Gillig. Ever since Gillig moved to Livermore, their quality has gone way up to the point where King County Metro said no to more XDE40s and said yes to Gilligs, as KCM have had a lot of problems with their XDE40s.

New Flyer also has had a lot of recalls lately with the Xcelsior lineup, which hasn't been good.

NICE doesn't go Nova primarily because the LFS seats less people than what Gillig and New Flyer offers, and the LFS has a known issue when it comes to capacity and space. Gillig and New Flyer provides better passenger flow over the LFS in my opinion.

[AJ023]

5 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

MTA's Orions doesn't get the amount of mileage and abuse that NICE Bus gets on theirs. NICE's Orions have more wear and tear because of the far distances they go and the road conditions along various routes. Their buses goes through much more rough conditions than the MTA, as the MTA is mostly stop-and-go for the most part, along with buses being governed to slower speeds. Their oldest Orions are also 13 years old. Most of their Orions have more miles put on them than our oldest OG Hybrids. The closest buses we got that almost matches NICE's in terms of fleet mileage are the Orion VIIs in Staten Island.

The Orions were taken from Long Island Bus, and went through a dark period at NICE when former County Executive Ed Mangano slashed NICE's funding several times, causing problems in a lot of areas including maintenance, service and cleanliness. They've been recovering from that as funding has been coming to them more and more now that Laura Curran is the County Executive.

 

On the contrary, NICE have been having problems with the Xcelsiors which is also part of the reason why cutaways have been used on regular routes. New Flyer has been lowballing bids to win, even going below Gillig. Ever since Gillig moved to Livermore, their quality has gone way up to the point where King County Metro said no to more XDE40s and said yes to Gilligs, as KCM have had a lot of problems with their XDE40s.

New Flyer also has had a lot of recalls lately with the Xcelsior lineup, which hasn't been good.

NICE doesn't go Nova primarily because the LFS seats less people than what Gillig and New Flyer offers, and the LFS has a known issue when it comes to capacity and space. Gillig and New Flyer provides better passenger flow over the LFS in my opinion.

Disagree on Mangano.  He did a good job by reducing taxes and keeping bus service available for Nassau county.  NICE was fully funded with enough resources.  The issue was they were just taken over and the Orions needed to be replaced with contracts and it takes time to phase out the older bus with New Flyer and Giilig which ultimately got the contracts.  

[Cait Sith]

4 hours ago, AJ023 said:

Disagree on Mangano.  He did a good job by reducing taxes and keeping bus service available for Nassau county.  NICE was fully funded with enough resources.  The issue was they were just taken over and the Orions needed to be replaced with contracts and it takes time to phase out the older bus with New Flyer and Giilig which ultimately got the contracts.  

You sure about that? The fact that a Senator stepped in with concerns regarding Mangano slashing away at NICE's funding doesn't really indicate that he did a good job...

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/mangano-proposes-3-8-million-cut-to-nice-bus-1.12707476

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/nice-urges-deep-service-cuts-fare-hike-to-close-7-5m-gap-1.10856963

http://blog.tstc.org/2017/08/17/analysis-nice-ridership-service-decline-nassau-county-support-bus-transit-plummets/

https://www.liherald.com/stories/nassau-bus-lines-slated-for-cuts,88394

https://www.liherald.com/stories/lack-of-county-funding-drives-nice-bus-to-cut-routes,91394

https://secondavenuesagas.com/2012/02/16/nice-bus-7-3-million-in-the-red-already-threatening-service-cuts/

https://www.longisland.com/news/02-14-17/brooks-nice-bus-service-cuts.html

They were only fully funded for a year, Ed Mangano started to slash funding for NICE bus not that long after they took the service.

Also, if you mean the OLDER Orions, they were not at retirement age yet at the time of the takeover. NICE was still new at the time and had to analyze the situation before replacing buses. NICE had plans to order new buses sooner until Ed Mangano decided to slash funding every other year.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Cait Sith

[Lex]

8 hours ago, AJ023 said:

Disagree on Mangano.  He did a good job by reducing taxes and keeping bus service available for Nassau county.  NICE was fully funded with enough resources.  The issue was they were just taken over and the Orions needed to be replaced with contracts and it takes time to phase out the older bus with New Flyer and Giilig which ultimately got the contracts.  

You realize that NICE is only a thing because Mangano was a massive cheapskate, right?

[AJ023]

2 hours ago, Lex said:

You realize that NICE is only a thing because Mangano was a massive cheapskate, right?

Wrong.  MTA has gotten to be an abusive predator controlling Mass Transit.  Governor Cuomo and the state legislature have too much power as does the MTA plus there has been lots of corruption at the MTA.  Transit should be privatized and NICE is now being run by Transdev which is a private sector firm.  Many Nassau county residents were paying taxes for services they weren’t using as well.  I wish MTA was privatized.  

[Lex]

19 minutes ago, AJ023 said:

Wrong.  MTA has gotten to be an abusive predator controlling Mass Transit.  Governor Cuomo and the state legislature have too much power as does the MTA plus there has been lots of corruption at the MTA.  Transit should be privatized and NICE is now being run by Transdev which is a private sector firm.  Many Nassau county residents were paying taxes for services they weren’t using as well.  I wish MTA was privatized.  

Mangano's funding cuts post-privatization led to loads of missing trips, awful maintenance, and near-annual service cuts leading to entire parts of the network simply disappearing or being relegated to piss-poor hours. The MTA wanted to have better funding specifically to avoid this, but because Mangano wanted none of that, the MTA decided that operating Nassau's bus system wasn't worth the effort.

Things have only started to look up for NICE because the current executive shows some level of concern for the bus network.

Corruption at the MTA has little -- if any -- relevance to Mangano's.

[Cait Sith]

6 hours ago, AJ023 said:

Wrong.  MTA has gotten to be an abusive predator controlling Mass Transit.  Governor Cuomo and the state legislature have too much power as does the MTA plus there has been lots of corruption at the MTA.  Transit should be privatized and NICE is now being run by Transdev which is a private sector firm.  Many Nassau county residents were paying taxes for services they weren’t using as well.  I wish MTA was privatized.  

First of all, Cuomo had nothing to do with anything involving the creation of NICE and the MTA basically wanting their money. But, since we're talking about corruption...at least there's one thing Mangano was good at.

Second, Lex isn't wrong. Mangano owed the MTA 106 million dollars and refused to pay, then he funded NICE with that same amount of money and started slashing away at their funds not long after that, hence the many service cuts, maintenance woes, missing trips and route eliminations that came, basically dismantling what the MTA made for Nassau County. 2015-2016 was probably the worst years for NICE, as they were preparing for more route eliminations and service cuts to a point where most service in Nassau County would've been hourly to almost 2 hour headways, with inter-county service being reduced to 30 minutes to hourly headways. The committee voted against it, even with Mangano refusing to push more funding for NICE. All of this is very heavily documented on this forum and elsewhere.

I don't know if this is a case of the blind leading the blind, but you should probably do some research.
 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Cait Sith

[MTABusTransitFanner]

8 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

First of all, Cuomo had nothing to do with anything involving the creation of NICE and the MTA basically wanting their money. But, since we're talking about corruption...at least there's one thing Mangano was good at.

Second, Lex isn't wrong. Mangano owed the MTA 106 million dollars and refused to pay, then he funded NICE with that same amount of money and started slashing away at their funds not long after that, hence the many service cuts, maintenance woes, missing trips and route eliminations that came, basically dismantling what the MTA made for Nassau County. 2015-2016 was probably the worst years for NICE, as they were preparing for more route eliminations and service cuts to a point where most service in Nassau County would've been hourly to almost 2 hour headways, with inter-county service being reduced to 30 minutes to hourly headways. The committee voted against it, even with Mangano refusing to push more funding for NICE. All of this is very heavily documented on this forum and elsewhere.

I don't know if this is a case of the blind leading the blind, but you should probably do some research.
 

Honestly it was a dumb idea for NICE Bus to cut bus routes such as the n2, n3, n8, n17, n36, n45, n46, n47, n50, n51, n81 etc. In my opinion those routes could have been useful.

[NewFlyer 230]

19 hours ago, MTABusTransitFanner said:

Honestly it was a dumb idea for NICE Bus to cut bus routes such as the n2, n3, n8, n17, n36, n45, n46, n47, n50, n51, n81 etc. In my opinion those routes could have been useful.

They had no choice due to lack of funding.

Some of those routes carried air so I think eliminating some of them where justified.

I think they should have kept either the n73 and or the n74 because those folks were left with no bus service.

The N3 was eliminated back in 2010 when the MTA was running things. 

[AJ023]

Do the New Flyer bus and soon to be Giilig’s have cameras inside?  Saw images of graffiti inside the Orion bus and broken seating and the like.  Using mass transit in Nassau county is definitely not an appealing experience but most people tend to drive or use other methods of transportation in the county.  When I was or am in Nassau County I never have used a NICE bus and never will.  But there will always be those who use the system.  

Edited May 20, 2021 by AJ023

[Mtatransit]

On 5/18/2021 at 9:19 AM, AJ023 said:

NICE was fully funded with enough resources.  

MTA received 9 million in 2011. NICE received 2.5 million in 2012 from Nassau County. They would've contributed 0 if it wouldn't jeopardize their state funding.

That's not fully funded or with enough resources, that's call neglect.

Things only started improving with Mangano OUT, because he clearly didn't care about bus service in the county

On 5/18/2021 at 8:26 PM, AJ023 said:

Wrong.  MTA has gotten to be an abusive predator controlling Mass Transit.  Governor Cuomo and the state legislature have too much power as does the MTA plus there has been lots of corruption at the MTA.  Transit should be privatized and NICE is now being run by Transdev which is a private sector firm.  Many Nassau county residents were paying taxes for services they weren’t using as well.  I wish MTA was privatized.  

People always pay taxes for things they are not using. Its socialist in certain ways... without collective tax revenue, and with everyone paying for things only THEY use, society will collapse. 

Regarding the privatization of the MTA. I actually agree with you. MTA as an organization is extremely bloated and riddled with inefficiency. They may have escaped with a bailout this year, but in 5 years, they will come back and cry broke again

NICE is a good idea. However the motive was bad. The goal wasn't for more local control but it was so he can cut it to death

On 5/18/2021 at 9:05 PM, Lex said:

Mangano's funding cuts post-privatization led to loads of missing trips, awful maintenance, and near-annual service cuts leading to entire parts of the network simply disappearing or being relegated to piss-poor hours. The MTA wanted to have better funding specifically to avoid this, but because Mangano wanted none of that, the MTA decided that operating Nassau's bus system wasn't worth the effort.

Things have only started to look up for NICE because the current executive shows some level of concern for the bus network.

Corruption at the MTA has little -- if any -- relevance to Mangano's.

I give NICE credit for holding the system somewhat intact during the terrible times between 2012-2017. 

If I remembered correctly, MTA would've cut half the route in 2011, and eliminated the entire NETWORK by the end of 2012. 

It wasn't until FY 2018 NICE received the same/greater funding from Nassau when compared to the last year of the MTA (9 million).

Its too bad that 30,000 riders were lost in this period.

On 5/19/2021 at 7:56 AM, MTABusTransitFanner said:

Honestly it was a dumb idea for NICE Bus to cut bus routes such as the n2, n3, n8, n17, n36, n45, n46, n47, n50, n51, n81 etc. In my opinion those routes could have been useful.

n2 technically still exist with the Elmont Flexi they are doing.

N3 was cut by the MTA

n8 ended in Franklin Square, so it really didn't serve anyone particularly well

n17 still exists with the mercy medical shuttle

n36/n73/n81 was scheduled to be brought back with a shuttle until COVID-19 hit

n45/46/47- Primary ridership disappeared a long time ago. Towards the end, most people use it along Front Street. NICE should instead prioritize increasing n48/49 instead which has crap headways

n50- The busier northern half is duplicated with the n49

n51- Ridership dropped on this route even back when MTA ran things. It was proposed to be cut in 2010 but revised

On 5/20/2021 at 5:15 PM, AJ023 said:

Do the New Flyer bus and soon to be Giilig’s have cameras inside?  Saw images of graffiti inside the Orion bus and broken seating and the like.  Using mass transit in Nassau county is definitely not an appealing experience but most people tend to drive or use other methods of transportation in the county.  When I was or am in Nassau County I never have used a NICE bus and never will.  But there will always be those who use the system.  

Most buses these days I believe do come equipped with cameras, mostly for liability reasons

[B35 via Church]

On 5/18/2021 at 9:19 AM, AJ023 said:

Disagree on Mangano.  He did a good job by reducing taxes and keeping bus service available for Nassau county.  NICE was fully funded with enough resources.  The issue was they were just taken over and the Orions needed to be replaced with contracts and it takes time to phase out the older bus with New Flyer and Giilig which ultimately got the contracts.  

Yeah right.... They're still making cuts to this day with NICE bus, so how "fully funded" could they have been back then....

On 5/18/2021 at 6:12 PM, Lex said:

You realize that NICE is only a thing because Mangano was a massive cheapskate, right?

All things considered, MTA could've been far more tyrannical with slashing bus service out in Nassau County; they tried working with the county (to an extent) - which was a slap in the face, given what was done in 2010 here in NYC.... Mangano the Massive Miser is right.

On 5/18/2021 at 8:26 PM, AJ023 said:

Wrong.  MTA has gotten to be an abusive predator controlling Mass Transit.  Governor Cuomo and the state legislature have too much power as does the MTA plus there has been lots of corruption at the MTA. Transit should be privatized and NICE is now being run by Transdev which is a private sector firm.  Many Nassau county residents were paying taxes for services they weren’t using as well.  I wish MTA was privatized.  

Yes, the same abusive predator that has some NICE bus riders clamoring for MTA to operate service in Nassau County again.... Let's not act like NICE bus riders are all content with how service is being handled...

-----------

IDC who's running the service in Nassau County... The problem it's going to have is that far too many of its riders are seeking travel b/w Queens & Nassau... It is what it is.... While the argument can be made that it's garbage now, the network would be flat out garbage if NICE decided to discontinue every single route that crosses over into Queens & they know it...

On 5/18/2021 at 11:20 PM, Cait Sith said:

First of all, Cuomo had nothing to do with anything involving the creation of NICE and the MTA basically wanting their money. But, since we're talking about corruption...at least there's one thing Mangano was good at.

Second, Lex isn't wrong. Mangano owed the MTA 106 million dollars and refused to pay, then he funded NICE with that same amount of money and started slashing away at their funds not long after that, hence the many service cuts, maintenance woes, missing trips and route eliminations that came, basically dismantling what the MTA made for Nassau County. 2015-2016 was probably the worst years for NICE, as they were preparing for more route eliminations and service cuts to a point where most service in Nassau County would've been hourly to almost 2 hour headways, with inter-county service being reduced to 30 minutes to hourly headways. The committee voted against it, even with Mangano refusing to push more funding for NICE. All of this is very heavily documented on this forum and elsewhere.

I don't know if this is a case of the blind leading the blind, but you should probably do some research.

It's quite funny to read..... It's what happens when you walk around wearing glasses with 0% tint - walking around bursting through walls like the god damn kool-aid man all day (never mind gettin drunk off the shit before the fact)...

Crazy.

On 5/19/2021 at 7:56 AM, MTABusTransitFanner said:

Honestly it was a dumb idea for NICE Bus to cut bus routes such as the n2, n3, n8, n17, n36, n45, n46, n47, n50, n51, n81 etc. In my opinion those routes could have been useful.

To be fair, the usage on a lot of those routes were abysmal before NICE took over....

3 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

I give NICE credit for holding the system somewhat intact during the terrible times between 2012-2017. 

If I remembered correctly, MTA would've cut half the route in 2011, and eliminated the entire NETWORK by the end of 2012. 

It wasn't until FY 2018 NICE received the same/greater funding from Nassau when compared to the last year of the MTA (9 million).

Its too bad that 30,000 riders were lost in this period.

I mean shit, if I were owed over 100 something odd million dollars, I'd have pulled the plug a lot sooner !! You saw what happened to Denzel in that last scene of Training Day.

Anyway, I give the planners credit... Unlike the MTA here in the city, those guys appear to know their riderbases quite well.... When Mangano gives you lemon seeds, you're not going to make lemonade at the drop of a hat... lol..... But yeah, I get the sense that they would wreck shop (in a good way, I mean) if NICE was actually fully funded....

3 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

n45/46/47- Primary ridership disappeared a long time ago. Towards the end, most people use it along Front Street. NICE should instead prioritize increasing n48/49 instead which has crap headways

Increasing headways & extending it to other areas, so yes, agreed.... They're sitting on a gold mine with Front st. service IMO... It's more or less a more residential variant of the N70/71 b/w Hempstead & East Meadow (specifically, NUMC) that swings up to Hicksville, instead of swinging out to Suffolk County / rt. 110.... That's actually one of my proposals btw (have one of the Hempstead Tpke routes do the n48/49 route west of NUMC).... The n71 to Sunrise Mall is spent & holding on to the n72 franchise/number the way that they are, is rather pointless... By that logic, all short turns of bus routes should be given a whole separate number....