October 15 Overnight service cuts

[B35 via Church]

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I also feel like I walk more than I take the M34. It's not a bus that I take often for say several blocks like say the M86, so that's something else that maybe takes away ridership from that line. Doesn't help that it runs like crap too. Not very frequent.

Outside of fanning, I don't bother with crosstown buses.... I'm seldom ever on the east side on like that anyway, so from where I frequent when I'm in Manhattan, I don't have a problem walking east-west in Manhattan.... Usually anywhere between 5th & 9th....

4 hours ago, NBTA said:

The M34 past about 10:30 is pretty much empty. I used to work down there late a lot of the time, so I actually approve of the canning of it.

if we dis-count the homeless folks & the construction workers, this pretty much describes 34th st in & of itself...

[checkmatechamp13]

14 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

As for the Q66, while there should be a direct replacement on the , I'm actually inclined to think that of people who use the (7), many are coming from areas north of Roosevelt anyways, so it may not make too difference if they go to Northern instead. So given the limited amount of resources they have, that's the best the could have come up with. 

Like others said, 34th Street isn't very active. When I've been out there, I can count on one hand the number of people I've seen on those buses. It was likely given the overnight service though because of the hospitals it serves. It could have been useful earlier on (when hospitals needed all the workers they could get), but now that hospitalizations are down, it isn't necessary. 

If I were to provide 24/7 service on 34th Street though, it would be through way of the M34A (and was the case pre-2010). The ferry doesn't even run overnight, and much of the west side is dead at that time. However, you hit both Penn Station and Port Authority, the latter which may actually be more useful at night. Also Waterside Plaza would be served. 

Pre-COVID the Q66 ran every 30 minutes overnight. I didn't check the schedule, but what is it now, 15 minutes? 

And I'm pretty sure the M34 was added due to Hudson Yards, but with the "99" routes running through there, there's no point anymore.

[B35 via Church]

31 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Pre-COVID the Q66 ran every 30 minutes overnight. I didn't check the schedule, but what is it now, 15 minutes? 

And I'm pretty sure the M34 was added due to Hudson Yards, but with the "99" routes running through there, there's no point anymore.

Even before they came out w/ the "99's", Hudson Yards was dead as shit..... Midtown Manhattan west of 9th av. is scary quiet.

...and yeah, they doubled the Q66 frequency overnights.

[MHV9218]

The M20 is a surprise, but I guess they figure the 7th Ave stretch has the new overnight routes on it. SOL if you were in Battery park City, though...

[Future ENY OP]

2 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

The M20 is a surprise, but I guess they figure the 7th Ave stretch has the new overnight routes on it. SOL if you were in Battery park City, though...

Battery Park City usually dead after 10PM. No point for running M20 bus service. At least there’s the M22. However, I’m not 100% if that runs overnight or until 1AM at the least. 

[checkmatechamp13]

5 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Battery Park City usually dead after 10PM. No point for running M20 bus service. At least there’s the M22. However, I’m not 100% if that runs overnight or until 1AM at the least. 

Weekdays it runs until 1am. Weekends it ends at 10pm. They have to make their way to/from the M103 or M15 (or maybe try to hope a BM2 lets them on since that's technically local fare overnights)

[Jdog14]

12 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Weekdays it runs until 1am. Weekends it ends at 10pm. They have to make their way to/from the M103 or M15 (or maybe try to hope a BM2 lets them on since that's technically local fare overnights)

 

BM2 is useless unless they're going to Brooklyn. 

[checkmatechamp13]

14 minutes ago, Jdog14 said:

BM2 is useless unless they're going to Brooklyn. 

I've used the BM buses for intra-Manhattan travel. The BM2 travels between Downtown & Midtown.

[NBTA]

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I've used the BM buses for intra-Manhattan travel. The BM2 travels between Downtown & Midtown.

You can do that? Thought that was strictly BxM18 type stuff.

[NBTA]

7 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

The M20 is a surprise, but I guess they figure the 7th Ave stretch has the new overnight routes on it. SOL if you were in Battery park City, though...

No Bx7, Bx31, Q8, Q88, and B9 service is as surprising to me (Deserts, big gaps, you could probably name more routes, like the Q7).

[checkmatechamp13]

Just now, NBTA said:

You can do that? Thought that was strictly BxM18 type stuff.

It's only advertised on the BxM18, but in practice, you can do it on most lines, especially the NYCT lines (since myself and a lot of other advocates were complaining that if you want to switch to a transfer-based system, the least you can do is allow some flexibility in the transfers). I'll give you a few common examples:

* Between the SIM2 & SIM25/26 at Victory Blvd (since a good chunk of the SIM25/26 riders don't have an equivalent Downtown bus)

* Between the SIM15/35 and the SIM10/11 at Fingerboard Road (since the SIM15/35 don't have an equivalent Midtown bus)

* Between the SIM31 & SIM32/33 at Slosson Avenue (since SIM31 riders don't have an equivalent Downtown bus and SIM32/33 riders don't have an equivalent Midtown bus along Gannon Avenue)

(To a smaller extent) Between the SIM1C/3C & SIM4C/33C or X27/28 at Trinity Place & Rector Street (for riders trying to get to Madison Avenue when their route runs down 6th Avenue).

My personal example was the BM1/2/3/4 to Battery Place for the X10/17 (Some BM drivers played the game of pretending they were going to bypass Downtown even though they were not scheduled to, but overall it was quicker than backtracking to 23rd & Park and sitting through all the stops going down, or making 2 extra transfers on the subway).

[NewFlyer 230]

On 10/10/2020 at 9:22 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The Q22 still operates, but it runs hourly on weekends. IDK how some people are going to actually travel now since the commute is tedious without the . Yeah the via local is slow, but getting to Manhattan by bus only from the Rockaways, forget it. 

To minimize transfers, the Q22 to/from Q35 to/from B99 might be the preferred option for almost all those QM17 riders going to the Rockaways. Perhaps some may walk to the Q53, but even then, it'll be a bit of a walk, and they'll have to transfer again to the Q32 or Q60. 

Well, it's ridership during the day doesn't really translate into anything directly, because when the subways aren't running, it's a different dynamic. The Q102 is replacing the and , so it is necessary in theory. 

At best, those buses do meh. The issue nowadays with the Q102 is that the buses are unreliable. With 30 minute headways, that's just not appealing. There's a bunch of buses which also don't run. Buses are empty on Roosevelt Island. I think only the Astoria Houses - Queens Plaza segment gets any reliable ridership base at night. Between Queens Plaza and Queens ridge, you also might get a few people but nothing substantial. 

Well people going to Flushing would have to transfer at Northern (if they got on past Queens Plaza), so it isn't exactly useless. 

As for the Q66, while there should be a direct replacement on the , I'm actually inclined to think that of people who use the (7), many are coming from areas north of Roosevelt anyways, so it may not make too difference if they go to Northern instead. So given the limited amount of resources they have, that's the best the could have come up with. 

Like others said, 34th Street isn't very active. When I've been out there, I can count on one hand the number of people I've seen on those buses. It was likely given the overnight service though because of the hospitals it serves. It could have been useful earlier on (when hospitals needed all the workers they could get), but now that hospitalizations are down, it isn't necessary. 

If I were to provide 24/7 service on 34th Street though, it would be through way of the M34A (and was the case pre-2010). The ferry doesn't even run overnight, and much of the west side is dead at that time. However, you hit both Penn Station and Port Authority, the latter which may actually be more useful at night. Also Waterside Plaza would be served. 

 

 

I probably wouldn’t do the commute if I had to take the Q32 to the Q53 to the Q22 if I needed to go to the Rockaway. Getting to the Rockaways from most places mainland Queens by public transportation is a chore. So nowadays I would imagine for whoever doesn’t need to be out that late would avoid being out. But of course having the QM17 would be much easier than transferring multiple times. Ideally they should allow people back on the subways at night. They are wasting all this money running extra bus service on top of the trains that are still running their routes. It’s not even guaranteed that the MTA will receive that federal money that they are asking for so they shouldn’t be putting themselves in an even deeper hole.  
 

I figured buses would be empty on Roosevelt Island. Normally after sundown that place is a ghost town. Now that I think about it the Astoria Projects now has 24 hour bus service which is something it normally lacks unless one was to walk from 21 Street off of the Q100. Whenever the subway starts allowing people to ride overnight again the MTA should look into potentially adding  overnight service to the Q18. I think there could possibly be demand there. It currently is out of service for about 3 hours so if they added two trips at 60 minute headway’s it could be useful. 

I was out late last night and I happened to be on Northern Blvd and from what I saw most Q66 buses were near empty around Junction Blvd so I guess as I mentioned earlier most people who don’t need to be out are probably not out anyways. Normally Northern Blvd at 2 and 3 in the morning would be more lively but night life is still gone so it was a ghost town out there. 

I was thinking the same thing about potentially having an overnight M34A service. Having the M34A would be more ideal because it serves the hospital and PABT, but it seems like it isn’t needed. The whole thing about 34th street being dead overnight is news to me. I figured since it’s in the heart of Manhattan it would see some type of usage. 

[B35 via Church]

3 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

My personal example was the BM1/2/3/4 to Battery Place for the X10/17 (Some BM drivers played the game of pretending they were going to bypass Downtown even though they were not scheduled to, but overall it was quicker than backtracking to 23rd & Park and sitting through all the stops going down, or making 2 extra transfers on the subway).

Oh, there were quite a bit of times where SC b/o's didn't pretend at all .... I've been on buses from Midtown that was supposed to serve Lwr. Manhattan that simply stayed on the FDR, etc., to the BBT...... On the flipside of it (in other instances), pretty sure I got screwed from b/o's doing that, while waiting around Battery pl. when I used to take the to (the old) S. Ferry station when I worked in the 'Village...

Some of these b/o's play more games than Parker brothers....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

21 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Outside of fanning, I don't bother with crosstown buses.... I'm seldom ever on the east side on like that anyway, so from where I frequent when I'm in Manhattan, I don't have a problem walking east-west in Manhattan.... Usually anywhere between 5th & 9th....

if we dis-count the homeless folks & the construction workers, this pretty much describes 34th st in & of itself...

When the weather is colder, I like to walk and just stroll. Yesterday, I walked from Broadway and 23rd down to Cooper Union.

[aemoreira81]

Not really surprised on many of these, given that the 99s have made these redundant. One thing that should be done though is to extend the Q60 deeper into Manhattan overnight and connect it with the other 99s. Another move that should be made is to make the BxM8 into the Bx98 overnight and run it local from Hunts Point Avenue; it's far enough from the Bx4 at many points to warrant such and such could also eliminate a need for the Bx24. (I do know that the BxM7 exists, but this would provide local service from Southern at 149 and then along Bruckner; the BxM7 could then provide a transfer at East Tremont Avenue.)

Edited October 12, 2020 by aemoreira81

[JAzumah]

It's really hard to ride buses that don't have their additional service published for customers to see.

[Kriston Lewis]

On 10/11/2020 at 7:03 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

I've used the BM buses for intra-Manhattan travel. The BM2 travels between Downtown & Midtown.

In the Command days this was advertised to the public, anyone can take a bus between Downtown and Midtown on a local fare. That obviously stopped after the takeover. In most cases, I’ve seen B/O refuse those who want to take the BMs this way in this day and age. But, you can still transfer between them heading southbound so long as you explain your situation and ask the operator nicely.

After the Staten Island redesign, those customers were refused by operators after they were told that they can transfer to the uptown BM expresses and vice versa.

[checkmatechamp13]

5 minutes ago, Kriston Lewis said:

In the Command days this was advertised to the public, anyone can take a bus between Downtown and Midtown on a local fare. That obviously stopped after the takeover. In most cases, I’ve seen B/O refuse those who want to take the BMs this way in this day and age. But, you can still transfer between them heading southbound so long as you explain your situation and ask the operator nicely.

After the Staten Island redesign, those customers were refused by operators after they were told that they can transfer to the uptown BM expresses and vice versa.

Yeah, what happened was that the MTA said that they put memos in the depots for Brooklyn Division express buses, but technically the BM routes are Queens Division (Don't ask me why). Thankfully in the most common instance (SIM3/10 riders trying to get to Madison Avenue), there's already plenty of other routes that they can transfer to, so while it was annoying, the wait time wasn't long for the next bus.

I haven't heard of people trying to transfer from the SIMs to the BMs to reach East 23rd Street in any significant number (in other words, the reverse of my trip), but it wouldn't surprise me if those passengers were refused access (unfortunately).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Kriston Lewis said:

In the Command days this was advertised to the public, anyone can take a bus between Downtown and Midtown on a local fare. That obviously stopped after the takeover. In most cases, I’ve seen B/O refuse those who want to take the BMs this way in this day and age. But, you can still transfer between them heading southbound so long as you explain your situation and ask the operator nicely.

After the Staten Island redesign, those customers were refused by operators after they were told that they can transfer to the uptown BM expresses and vice versa.

Bus is very strict about this, and that's one reason drivers refuse.

[B35 via Church]

I'm sure there's positives to it, but I never really needed or wanted to ride an express bus within the same borough.... Even if I wanted to, I would chalk it up to not being worth the hassle with dealing with the refusal from b/o's......

[MHV9218]

The only time I ever thought about doing that was during Hurricane Sandy, when the expresses were free and running full close-to-full service, and the subways weren't going below 34th Street. Those were funky times...the first few nights, before the union got word, they actually ran buses through the blackout zone. I rode an M2 through the blackout, op really having to keep his head on a swivel at intersections. Union nixed that after the second night, I think...every southbound bus had to turn where there was still power by nighttime.

[4P3607]

I attempted to get an interior video ride on the last QM17 hybrid to Manhattan via the Midtown tunnel but overslept and missed it by minutes. Very disappointed with myself considering I have no videos of it and there doesn't seem to be any out there while having plenty of opportunity to do so.

The real question is, what the hell are riders supposed to do who work in Far Rockaway and travel to / from late? For those that use fare it would be at least two and three bus rides. I would only hope they're reassigning those runs as Q22 runs to connect with the Q53 at least. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

18 minutes ago, 4P3607 said:

I attempted to get an interior video ride on the last QM17 hybrid to Manhattan via the Midtown tunnel but overslept and missed it by minutes. Very disappointed with myself considering I have no videos of it and there doesn't seem to be any out there while having plenty of opportunity to do so.

The real question is, what the hell are riders supposed to do who work in Far Rockaway and travel to / from late? For those that use fare it would be at least two and three bus rides. I would only hope they're reassigning those runs as Q22 runs to connect with the Q53 at least. 

They're not going to. FR/JFK have had issues with missing Q22 and QM17 trips for a while, so if anything, all this would so is reduce the amount of trips missing on the Q22. However, the Q22 will continue to run hourly at night during the overnight hours on weekends (and Saturday into Monday is when ridership was higher on the QM17 too, go figure). 

I've thought about doing a video on the QM17, but it would be incredibly glary because of the nighttime. When the days were longer during the summer, and when there was light by the time the last trip departed Far Rockaway, it would have been a better time. However, I didn't want to go through the hassle of getting to/from Far Rockaway, nor was I willing to time it.

It will be at least three bus rides no matter how you slice it. Here are the options for residents on the eastern end of the peninsula:

• Q114 > Walk,  Shuttle, Q24, Q54, or Q56 > Q60 > Q32, M15, or Bx99
• Q22 > Q35 > B99 > Crosstown Bus (potentially)
• Q22 > Q53 > Q32 or Q60

I'm not too enthusiastic about the QM17, as I used it and it was a quick ride home. Additionally, my path home from Woodhaven Blvd & 61st Road was closer, and I didn't have to go up stairs, cross bridges, and go up hills to get home (which is the case if I walk from Hoffman Drive).

Edited October 14, 2020 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[4P3607]

2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

They're not going to. FR/JFK have had issues with missing Q22 and QM17 trips for a while, so if anything, all this would so is reduce the amount of trips missing on the Q22. However, the Q22 will continue to run hourly at night during the overnight hours on weekends (and Saturday into Monday is when ridership was higher on the QM17 too, go figure). 

I've thought about doing a video on the QM17, but it would be incredibly glary because of the nighttime. When the days were longer during the summer, and when there was light by the time the last trip departed Far Rockaway, it would have been a better time. However, I didn't want to go through the hassle of getting to/from Far Rockaway, nor was I willing to time it.

It will be at least three bus rides no matter how you slice it. Here are the options for residents on the eastern end of the peninsula:

• Q114 > Walk,  Shuttle, Q24, Q54, or Q56 > Q60 > Q32, M15, or Bx99
• Q22 > Q35 > B99 > Crosstown Bus (potentially)
• Q22 > Q53 > Q32 or Q60

I'm not too enthusiastic about the QM17, as I used it and it was a quick ride home. Additionally, my path home from Woodhaven Blvd & 61st Road was closer, and I didn't have to go up stairs, cross bridges, and go up hills to get home (which is the case if I walk from Hoffman Drive).

Just the fact an Orion VII ride through the midtown tunnel won't ever happen again. I rode it several times but didn't record because of no battery or wanted a better opportunity. This is miserable having no footage whatsoever. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

15 minutes ago, 4P3607 said:

Just the fact an Orion VII ride through the midtown tunnel won't ever happen again. I rode it several times but didn't record because of no battery or wanted a better opportunity. This is miserable having no footage whatsoever. 

Well, there's still a possibility of Orion VII Hybrids showing up on inbound QM15/16/17/18/21 runs. It wouldn't be worth the $6.75 fare though.