October 15 Overnight service cuts

[B35 via Church]

On 10/13/2020 at 12:46 PM, JAzumah said:

It's really hard to ride buses that don't have their additional service published for customers to see.

Yep.... This was the problem with the additional overnight service from day one.

16 hours ago, 4P3607 said:

The real question is, what the hell are riders supposed to do who work in Far Rockaway and travel to / from late? For those that use fare it would be at least two and three bus rides. I would only hope they're reassigning those runs as Q22 runs to connect with the Q53 at least. 

The same thing that riders that live in (Manhattan's) Inwood are doing, unfortunately.

Edited October 15, 2020 by B35 via Church

[P3F]

So the 24/7 bus lanes on Kings Highway are now being utilized by buses that run less than once an hour (70 minute headways).

What a colossal waste of road space.

Edited October 24, 2020 by P3F

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

21 minutes ago, P3F said:

So the 24/7 bus lanes on Kings Highway are now being utilized by buses that run less than once an hour (70 minute headways).

What a colossal waste of road space.

Traffic in those areas is generally light during the overnight hours (the small time range that headway is in effect) anyways. It's not like it causes traffic congestion during that time period, so I don't see the issue.

Edited October 24, 2020 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Future ENY OP]

28 minutes ago, P3F said:

So the 24/7 bus lanes on Kings Highway are now being utilized by buses that run less than once an hour (70 minute headways).

What a colossal waste of road space.

I believe Penn Ave- Starrett City falls under that same category.. However, try telling that to the DOT

[P3F]

23 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Traffic in those areas is generally light during the overnight hours (the small time range that headway is in effect) anyways. It's not like it causes traffic congestion during that time period, so I don't see the issue.

Even if the restrictions don't cause a lot of congestion during the night (as they do during the day), they nonetheless make the road less efficient for no discernible benefit.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1 hour ago, P3F said:

Even if the restrictions don't cause a lot of congestion during the night (as they do during the day), they nonetheless make the road less efficient for no discernible benefit.

I get the part about the no discernable benefit, and I would be inclined to agree, as bus speeds citywide are usually much better overnight.

What I'm having an issue with is the "less efficient" part. Yes, the road space for vehicles that are buses are less. However, that doesn't necessarily make it less efficient for vehicles, if vehicular traffic drops significantly during the overnight hours. There's one lane for thru-traffic and local traffic in each direction. If those lanes can still meet vehicular demand during the 140 minute interval where buses are running every 70 minutes (and have their dedicated lane), then there isn't an issue if cars can still move through the area quickly. It's not like the bus lanes themselves block right turns, as you can't make right turns from the main roadway to begin with (which is where the buses operate).  Also, there are areas where vehicles are allowed to shift into the bus lane if switching from the main road to the service road. 

On this issue, I'm in different to whether the bus lanes should be in effect overnight or not. If you want to make the case that the ridership along with the headways don't warrant the bus, or just the headways alone don't warrant them, fine. But bringing up the road space issue is unnecessary, because I can't buy the argument that the bus lane at that time of night makes the road space worse for people (compared to if there was no bus lane).  

Edited October 24, 2020 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[P3F]

34 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

What I'm having an issue with is the "less efficient" part. Yes, the road space for vehicles that are buses are less. However, that doesn't necessarily make it less efficient for vehicles, if vehicular traffic drops significantly during the overnight hours. There's one lane for thru-traffic and local traffic in each direction. If those lanes can still meet vehicular demand during the 140 minute interval where buses are running every 70 minutes (and have their dedicated lane), then there isn't an issue if cars can still move through the area quickly. It's not like the bus lanes themselves block right turns, as you can't make right turns from the main roadway to begin with (which is where the buses operate).  Also, there are areas where vehicles are allowed to shift into the bus lane if switching from the main road to the service road. 

Two lanes in a direction are inherently more efficient than one, by virtue of allowing vehicles to proceed at varying speeds on the same road. With two lanes per direction, if a vehicle is traveling at an abnormally low speed on the road (whether by choice or by necessity), everyone else can safely pass them at a reasonable pace. With a single lane per direction, everyone is stuck behind the slow moving vehicle, which, given that Kings Highway is a major through route, could easily last for the entire duration of the bus lane. The segment of Kings Highway with bus lanes has very few slip lanes between the main and service roads, so switching from one to the other is generally not an option. And even if it is safe to do so, passing via the bus lane is also impractical due to them being "photo enforced", and at night it can be difficult to see where the cameras are.

Obviously this effect is more pronounced during the daytime, when there is a higher volume of traffic. It doesn't disappear at night, though, so yes the road is less efficient with the nighttime bus lane.

[Lex]

Just now, P3F said:

Two lanes in a direction are inherently more efficient than one, by virtue of allowing vehicles to proceed at varying speeds on the same road. With two lanes per direction, if a vehicle is traveling at an abnormally low speed on the road (whether by choice or by necessity), everyone else can safely pass them at a reasonable pace. With a single lane per direction, everyone is stuck behind the slow moving vehicle, which, given that Kings Highway is a major through route, could easily last for the entire duration of the bus lane. The segment of Kings Highway with bus lanes has very few slip lanes between the main and service roads, so switching from one to the other is generally not an option. And even if it is safe to do so, passing via the bus lane is also impractical due to them being "photo enforced", and at night it can be difficult to see where the cameras are.

Obviously this effect is more pronounced during the daytime, when there is a higher volume of traffic. It doesn't disappear at night, though, so yes the road is less efficient with the nighttime bus lane.

This entire statement is greatly undercut by the street's design. East of Ocean Avenue, it's an arterial with a main road and service roads, while the portion west of there would be a single pair of travel lanes and an accompanying pair of what would otherwise be parking lanes.

I really don't need to talk about the difference in traffic being too low at night to make a tangible difference.