No Overnight Service until Summer 2021

[MHV9218]

Hadn't seen this posted. This was news to me. I think this date is misguided for a number of reasons, but we can assume it's meant to loosely tie in with the vaccine's arrival and implementation in NYC. Frankly, as long as overnight service comes back at all, I'm happy.

From Streetsblog: https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/12/04/mta-exec-overnight-service-wont-be-back-until-at-least-next-summer/

Quote

A bummer ’til summer?

New York City Transit Interim President Sarah Feinberg told transit workers that overnight subway service won’t be back until the summer at the earliest, according to NY1.

Feinberg’s comments were part of the outlet’s coverage of how the nightly 1 a.m. to 5 a.m. shutdown is affecting about 20,000 commuters, doubling some people’s commute times after they were forced to switch from the subway to the bus. Given the many months until June 20, 2021, some advocates argue that the MTA should at the very least have learned enough from its cleaning regimen that it can do it in a smaller window than four hours.

“At this time, there should be sufficient information gleaned from the overnight closures to at the very least compress the closures and at best reopen and retain appropriate levels of cleanliness,” said Lisa Daglian, the executive director of the Permanent Citizens Advisory Committee to the MTA. “The closures are more than an inconvenience, they are life-altering for people who need to ride during those hours — including essential workers.”

The summer target date is the latest twist in the saga of the overnight subway shutdown, the first in the subway system’s illustrious history and one that Gov. Cuomo ordered during the darkest days of the pandemic in May. At the time, Cuomo said that the shutdown was done to clean train surfaces and ensure homeless New Yorkers weren’t living on trains. But over time, people have come to see the shutdown as “hygiene theater” that results in photo ops of cleaners scrubbing trains clean and MTA press releases about lemon-scented floors, but no actual benefit to rider health.

As the pandemic has ground on, the world has learned more about the way that coronavirus spreads, particularly that it does not live on surfaces to the degree that requires barring people from the subway for four hours every morning. Transit advocates have continuously suggested that the cleaning regimen is unnecessary in the face of the science on coronavirus. The shutdown has not been a cost saving measure either. While subway trains still run during the shutdown, the MTA had to set up additional bus service and even created new bus routes, and the transit agency has paid private contractors over $200 million over the life of the pandemic to work on the surface cleaning efforts.

Next summer seems far away, but Feinberg’s prediction is a more optimistic one than anonymous “political insiders” recently predicted in a City and State poll of its readers, who are the movers and shakers of the city. That survey found that 68 percent of these machers didn’t think that overnight subway service would be back before next November. The poll results suggest, at the very least, an unwillingness by City and State’s powerful readers to fight the governor over an issue that’s been a birthright for New Yorkers since the early 1900s and an economic boon for generations.

The return of the subway doesn’t have to rely entirely on the whims of the governor. The state Senate passed a bill this summer that would require the subway to go back to full service once the current state of emergency ends, though a companion bill in the Assembly is still stuck in committee. (Gov. Cuomo can, of course, end the state of emergency whenever he wants, but that does not mean the subway would return to full service; that would require an additional act of the Big Dog.)

An MTA spokesperson said Feinberg’s comments were nothing new for the agency.

“Sarah’s comments were consistent with both what the governor and MTA leaders have said consistently,” said the spokesperson, Tim Minton. “Overnight service will not return during the pandemic, the pandemic is ongoing, and it is unlikely to be over before the middle of 2021 at the earliest.”

 

[QM1to6Ave]

Hygiene theater that gets the bums and the addicts out of the subways and onto the streets...solve one problem and cause another. And cost more money on top of that. Real great.

[Wallyhorse]

They probably had their legal teams explore all options on this:

They likely know, without a vaccine if they reopen the subways overnight before a vaccine covers enough people they run the risk of homeless making the subways a COVID haven with the threat of overrunning the hospitals.   If may be the only LEGAL way they can keep the homeless from living in the system as the ACLU likely would get injunctions blocking any other effort to get the homeless from living in the subways unless they can find a way that is completely ACLU-proof.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

18 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Hygiene theater that gets the bums and the addicts out of the subways and onto the streets...solve one problem and cause another. And cost more money on top of that. Real great.

Yeah, and the real kicker is a lot of the overnight bus "service" is MIA....

[I love NY]

Over 500 ghost trains run every night between 1am and 5am only for cops and transit workers, but above all because there is not enough space in the system to store all trains simultaneously, and so that they can easily resume service at 5 am.

Edited December 8, 2020 by I love NY

[nostalgia]

I looked at Sept 13 subway schedules and they show 24 hour service so I'm confused.

Unfortunately, I can't cut and paste the link. Go to 

mta.info

Subway

Schedules

 

Scroll to the bottom of the page where the subway schedules and click on the URL.

 

Weekday Service
1 Manhattan-bound
From Van Cortlandt Park-242 St, Bronx, to South Ferry, Manhattan
Vn Crtlndt Pk 238 168 137 St 103 96 66 St Times Sq Chambers South
242 St St St City College St St Lincoln Ctr 42 St St Ferry
     12:07      12:08      12:20      12:25      12:31      12:33      12:39      12:44      12:59      1:04
     12:26      12:27      12:39      12:44      12:50      12:52      12:58      1:03      1:18      1:23
     12:46      12:47      12:59      1:04      1:10      1:12      1:18      1:23      1:38      1:43
     1:06      1:07      1:19      1:24      1:30      1:32      1:38      1:43      1:58      2:03
     1:26      1:27      1:39      1:44      1:50      1:52      1:58      2:03      2:18      2:23
     1:46      1:47      1:59      2:04      2:10      2:12      2:18      2:23      2:38      2:43
     2:06      2:07      2:19      2:24      2:30      2:32      2:38      2:43      2:58      3:03
     2:26      2:27      2:39      2:44      2:50      2:52      2:58      3:03      3:18      3:23
     2:46      2:47      2:59      3:04      3:10      3:12      3:18      3:23      3:38      3:43
     3:06      3:07      3:19      3:24      3:30      3:32      3:38      3:43      3:58      4:03
     3:26      3:27      3:39      3:44      3:50      3:52      3:58      4:03      4:18      4:23
     3:46      3:47      3:59      4:04      4:10      4:12      4:18      4:23      4:38      4:43
     4:06      4:07      4:19      4:24      4:30      4:32      4:38      4:43      4:58      5:03
     4:26      4:27      4:39      4:44      4:50      4:52      4:58      5:03      5:18      5:23
     4:43      4:44      4:56      5:01      5:07      5:09      5:15      5:20      5:35      5:40
     4:58      4:59      5:11      5:16      5:22      5:24      5:30      5:35      5:50      5:55
     5:09      5:11      5:23      5:28      5:34      5:36      5:42      5:47      6:01      6:06
     5:17      5:19      5:31      5:36      5:42      5:44      5:50      5:55      6:07      6:12
     5:25      5:27      5:39      5:44      5:50      5:52      5:58      6:03      6:15      6:20
     5:33      5:35      5:47      5:52      5:58      6:00      6:06      6:11      6:23      6:28
     5:41      5:43      5:55      6:00      6:06      6:08      6:14      6:19      6:31      6:36
     5:49      5:51      6:03      6:08      6:14      6:16      6:22      6:27      6:39      6:44
     5:57      5:59      6:11      6:16      6:22      6:24      6:30      6:35      6:47      6:52
     6:05      6:07      6:19      6:24      6:30      6:32      6:38      6:43      6:55      7:00
     6:13      6:15      6:27      6:32      6:38      6:40      6:46      6:51      7:03      7:08
     6:21      6:23      6:35      6:40      6:46      6:48      6:54      6:59      7:11      7:16
     6:29      6:31      6:43      6:48      6:54      6:56      7:02      7:07      7:19      7:25
     6:35      6:37      6:49      6:54      7:00      7:02      7:08      7:13      7:25      7:31
     —     6:43      6:55      7:00      7:06      7:08      7:14      7:19      7:32      7:37
     6:46      6:48      7:00      7:05      7:11      7:13      7:19      7:25      7:37      7:43
     —     6:53      7:05      7:10      7:16      7:18      7:24      7:30      7:42      7:48

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lex]

6 hours ago, nostalgia said:

I looked at Sept 13 subway schedules and they show 24 hour service so I'm confused.

Unfortunately, I can't cut and paste the link. Go to 

mta.info

Subway

Schedules

 

Scroll to the bottom of the page where the subway schedules and click on the URL.

*partial schedule*

The trains are still running overnight. They're simply not allowing passengers into the system for four hours (and change).

[B35 via Church]

Quote

Weekday Service

Manhattan-bound
From Van Cortlandt Park-242 St, Bronx, to South Ferry, Manhattan

Vn Crtlndt Pk 238 168 137 St 103 96 66 St Times Sq Chambers South
242 St St St City College St St Lincoln Ctr 42 St St Ferry

 

12:59      1:04      1:10      1:12      1:18      1:23      1:38      1:43

4:58      4:59      5:11      5:16      5:22      5:24      5:30      5:35      5:50      5:55

From leaving 242nd st, can passengers board these two trains, or no?

In other words, which is the first & last train of passenger consumption before they cease letting pax. into the system?

7 minutes ago, Lex said:

The trains are still running overnight. They're simply not allowing passengers into the system for four hours (and change).

I took the B99 & Bx99 last night (well, early this morning).... There were these 2 dudes that boarded the Bx99 that didn't know the weren't running (or so they claim  )... They spent most of the ride bitching about it... They boarded at the park (111th I think it is) & got off at 149th.... Of course, neither of them in their states of obliviousness didn't pay the fare....

[nostalgia]

43 minutes ago, Lex said:

The trains are still running overnight. They're simply not allowing passengers into the system for four hours (and change).

Then the schedule shouldn't show the trains OR include a note for police and transit workers. I don't see a note that service is unavailable between 1 and 5 AM.

[Lawrence St]

44 minutes ago, nostalgia said:

Then the schedule shouldn't show the trains OR include a note for police and transit workers. I don't see a note that service is unavailable between 1 and 5 AM.

In all honesty the system should be open for all transit personnel (not just MTA employees.) 

[shiznit1987]

Everyone at this point knows this was a homeless removal initiative. What the service planners need to start doing is finding ways to break up continuous runs so that when a train goes "Out of Service" it truly means OOS. This is what will get the homeless to stop riding the trains consistently. 

[NewFlyer 230]

On 12/25/2020 at 9:11 AM, shiznit1987 said:

Everyone at this point knows this was a homeless removal initiative. What the service planners need to start doing is finding ways to break up continuous runs so that when a train goes "Out of Service" it truly means OOS. This is what will get the homeless to stop riding the trains consistently. 

The city needs to fix the homeless problem which only continues to get worst as the years progress. Unfortunately the MTA is left to deal with a problem that they did not create. It is sad seeing these people many of which are almost zombie like walking around so helpless. The homelessness problems on the subways will continue to exist as long as the city struggles with its homeless problem. 
 

Realistic what can the MTA really do to stop the homelessness in the subways? You can’t have police officers at every stations and on every train, so it’s honestly a problem the city needs to take serious and tackle. 

[Mtatransit]

On 12/24/2020 at 10:41 PM, B35 via Church said:

From leaving 242nd st, can passengers board these two trains, or no?

In other words, which is the first & last train of passenger consumption before they cease letting pax. into the system?

According to the MTA, 12:45AM is the last train leaving 242nd, so I assume that the station "closed" after that train leaves.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Mtatransit

[CenSin]

On 12/25/2020 at 9:11 AM, shiznit1987 said:

get the homeless to stop riding the trains consistently

TBH, I'd rather have them harass me out in the open rather than on the train. At least out in the open, I can get away to some other place.

[nostalgia]

On 12/28/2020 at 2:17 PM, Mtatransit said:

According to the MTA, 12:45AM is the last train leaving 242nd, so I assume that the station "closed" after that train leaves.

That's why I looked at the schedule to see the last train. What does "closed between 1 and 5AM" mean? Arrive at last stop before 1 AM? Leave all stations at 1 AM or something else?

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, nostalgia said:

That's why I looked at the schedule to see the last train. What does "closed between 1 and 5AM" mean? Arrive at last stop before 1 AM? Leave all stations at 1 AM or something else?

After 1 AM, all trains that are still in passenger service are exit-only meaning that stations that are closed can still be exited by passengers, but people can not enter the train. They also say your not allowed to transfer between trains after 1 AM, but there's no enforcement as long as the train your transferring to is across the platform. I've seen it happen multiple times between the last and trains of the night at Grand Central.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, nostalgia said:

That's why I looked at the schedule to see the last train. What does "closed between 1 and 5AM" mean? Arrive at last stop before 1 AM? Leave all stations at 1 AM or something else?

They put up an announcement on this.  There are trains running between that time, but not serving the public, so they list when the last train will run on each line. Given how horrendous bus and subway service has been, I would get on the train by 12:30 at the latest.

[Mtatransit]

2 hours ago, nostalgia said:

That's why I looked at the schedule to see the last train. What does "closed between 1 and 5AM" mean? Arrive at last stop before 1 AM? Leave all stations at 1 AM or something else?

What it seems like is that after the designated last train by station which in the case of 242nd St is 12:45AM, the station agent will close the station (not allow the public into the fare paying area) and by 1am all the station would've closed. Then all the trains and station will become exit only. I am not sure about transfers but by the time the train reaches the terminal, most of the passengers should be out anyways

 

But if its the case of @Lawrence St that would be really messed up for the trip to end half way just because you missed the 1am window. Plus the overnight bus service is currently terrible.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Mtatransit

[Via Garibaldi 8]

37 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

What it seems like is that after the designated last train by station which in the case of 242nd St is 12:45AM, the station agent will close the station (not allow the public into the fare paying area) and by 1am all the station would've closed. Then all the trains and station will become exit only. I am not sure about transfers but by the time the train reaches the terminal, most of the passengers should be out anyways

 

But if its the case of @Lawrence St that would be really messed up for the trip to end half way just because you missed the 1am window. Plus the overnight bus service is currently terrible.

Overnight bus service is almost non-existent. Never enough drivers... Some guy said they were running shuttle buses last night on the  line. They had ONE bus for an entire train load of people. People packed together like sardines. He called for an Uber. I don't blame him.

They're getting all of this money and can't provide the basic service, and with some of these overnight lines, they're only providing one bus an hour, and they can't even provide that.

[I love NY]

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/12/30/subway-pushing-suspect-charged-with-assault

[RTOMan]

On 12/29/2020 at 5:50 PM, Lawrence St said:

After 1 AM, all trains that are still in passenger service are exit-only meaning that stations that are closed can still be exited by passengers, but people can not enter the train. They also say your not allowed to transfer between trains after 1 AM, but there's no enforcement as long as the train your transferring to is across the platform. I've seen it happen multiple times between the last and trains of the night at Grand Central.

Not true entirely true when i leave STL(2341) there are two more trains behind me in passenger service.

As long as the train is in service even if its after 0100 hrs train can pick up anybody on the platform..

Now when i get to the terminal then its everybody off go upstairs and the MTA police are there (along with the outreach people) to see that happens..

It happens.... 

[Lawrence St]

6 hours ago, RTOMan said:

Not true entirely true when i leave STL(2341) there are two more trains behind me in passenger service.

As long as the train is in service even if its after 0100 hrs train can pick up anybody on the platform..

Now when i get to the terminal then its everybody off go upstairs and the MTA police are there (along with the outreach people) to see that happens..

It happens.... 

I was told otherwise by MTA PD.

What sucks about it though is that at times the last train departures will be cancelled and no one will notify the stations that are affected and people end up waiting 45 minutes for a train that's not coming.

Happened to me once before, was waiting for the last at Borough Hall and it showed up on the clock as 13 minutes away, then 21 minutes away, then just disappeared entirely.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The last departure in each direction is the last train in passenger service, and makes all stops, even after 1 AM, so what RTOMan said is correct.

Yes in theory, trains are supposed to be exit-only after a certain point, but since the stations don't close to passengers until after 1 AM, you could miss the "last departure" at a station but still catch the next train and you'll be able to board it, as long as it is the last scheduled departure from one of the terminals before 1 AM (in passenger service). In some areas, trains are still in passenger service past 2 AM. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Bill from Maspeth]

There should be a table of the last passenger trains of the night listed by line and by station on the MTA web site.  I did see it but I have no ideas on how to bring it back up.

But the table would be based on regular service, not GO's, which may change the time.

Best bet, do not count on riding the last train of the night.

[nostalgia]

3 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

There should be a table of the last passenger trains of the night listed by line and by station on the MTA web site.  I did see it but I have no ideas on how to bring it back up.

But the table would be based on regular service, not GO's, which may change the time.

Best bet, do not count on riding the last train of the night.

It should be listed on the schedules, but it isn't.