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New Bus Newark Initiative


davemackey

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9 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

with this new plan i have something for the 75 instead of looping it around delwanna station how about extending it to main ave bus terminal 

I think they didn't want to budget more than one bus assigned to the 75, and figured the 74 with 15 minute headways down to North Newark would be sufficient.

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13 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

with this new plan i have something for the 75 instead of looping it around delwanna station how about extending it to main ave bus terminal 

4 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I think they didn't want to budget more than one bus assigned to the 75, and figured the 74 with 15 minute headways down to North Newark would be sufficient.

I may be a bit fuzzy on the details on account of the #75 being cut back about 10 years ago, but from what I recall the biggest problem was inconsistency of service; it was rush-only, and scheduled runs often didn't show up. 

The second thing that killed it off, if I recall correctly, was the routing itself- an express bus from Newark to Butler detouring through Paterson.  Meant to serve everybody, but effectively serving nobody.  Why NJT decided around 1990 that this would somehow be more effective than the old #11 up Route 23, I don't know.

It's as if somebody wanted to run a route from Morristown through Boonton and Fairfield, and bill it as the most direct bus to Newark...

 

The 3,000-pound elephant in the room, however, is the fact that outer Passaic County does have an active (albeit freight) rail line that goes right through Paterson down into Hudson County.  In fact, this Susquehanna Line used to provide passenger service until the late 1960s- every now and then, something pops up in the news about a possible restoration of commuter service (to Hoboken, I think), but these studies never seem to go anywhere.

Edited by R10 2952
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On 3/19/2022 at 2:15 AM, BreeddekalbL said:

with this new plan i have something for the 75 instead of looping it around delwanna station how about extending it to main ave bus terminal 

21 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I think they didn't want to budget more than one bus assigned to the 75, and figured the 74 with 15 minute headways down to North Newark would be sufficient.

...considering the #190D also transports pax b/w Broadway Bus Terminal & Delawanna RR.

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  • 5 months later...

They mentioned they would have the new draft released by the Spring, but it's almost the end of Summer and still nothing.

Anyway, I'm thinking of how to split up the #99 route. I'm thinking something along the lines of the following:

#96: Branch Brook Park light rail station to Beth Israel Hospital via North 6th Street-1st Avenue-Roseville Avenue/South 8th Street-12th Avenue-Bergen Street-Lyons Avenue

#98: Forest Hill/Lake Street Loop - Newark Penn Station via Verona Avenue-Mount Prospect Avenue-Bloomfield Avenue-Broadway-Broad Street-Raymond Blvd

#99: Newark Broad Street-Hillside via Orange Street-Norfolk Street-Irvine Turner Blvd-Avon Avenue-Bergen Avenue (Irvington - Hillside is already covered by the #26, and Irvington-Weequahic is already covered by the #37/107). 

Also, I think the two #34 branches should remain split in East Orange, rather than concentrated on Springdale Avenue.

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On 9/1/2022 at 8:45 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

They mentioned they would have the new draft released by the Spring, but it's almost the end of Summer and still nothing.

Anyway, I'm thinking of how to split up the #99 route. I'm thinking something along the lines of the following:

#96: Branch Brook Park light rail station to Beth Israel Hospital via North 6th Street-1st Avenue-Roseville Avenue/South 8th Street-12th Avenue-Bergen Street-Lyons Avenue

#98: Forest Hill/Lake Street Loop - Newark Penn Station via Verona Avenue-Mount Prospect Avenue-Bloomfield Avenue-Broadway-Broad Street-Raymond Blvd

#99: Newark Broad Street-Hillside via Orange Street-Norfolk Street-Irvine Turner Blvd-Avon Avenue-Bergen Avenue (Irvington - Hillside is already covered by the #26, and Irvington-Weequahic is already covered by the #37/107)....

The fact that they went silent on this is rather disappointing.

Be there as it may though, I'm not seeing why the #99 has to be split.... Worst I'd probably do to the #99 is cut it back to Beth Israel.... This looks like you're trying to come up with a way to compensate for the suggested full on elimination of the #96 under this Newark bus study....

 

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8 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The fact that they went silent on this is rather disappointing.

Be there as it may though, I'm not seeing why the #99 has to be split.... Worst I'd probably do to the #99 is cut it back to Beth Israel.... This looks like you're trying to come up with a way to compensate for the suggested full on elimination of the #96 under this Newark bus study....

Part of it is trying to maintain some sort of crosstown service in that section of Newark, but part of it is trying to avoid some of the meandering currently done by the #99 (and also provide a bit more coverage around Springfield-Belmont). Under the proposed plan, the only straightening out of the #99 is having it bypass the (back end of) Newark Broad Street. I think it would be better to maintain that connection to Newark Broad Street, and split up the way the route serves the hospital. 

The other thing is that the section of Newark along Mount Prospect Avenue and along Broadway doesn't have a direct connection to Newark Penn (the #13 & #27 leave you off along Broad Street, and obviously the #99 goes nowhere near Newark Penn). So at least this would give a direct connection to that general area from Newark Penn. 

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3 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Part of it is trying to maintain some sort of crosstown service in that section of Newark, but part of it is trying to avoid some of the meandering currently done by the #99 (and also provide a bit more coverage around Springfield-Belmont). Under the proposed plan, the only straightening out of the #99 is having it bypass the (back end of) Newark Broad Street. I think it would be better to maintain that connection to Newark Broad Street, and split up the way the route serves the hospital. 

The other thing is that the section of Newark along Mount Prospect Avenue and along Broadway doesn't have a direct connection to Newark Penn (the #13 & #27 leave you off along Broad Street, and obviously the #99 goes nowhere near Newark Penn). So at least this would give a direct connection to that general area from Newark Penn. 

Your "98" I don't so much have a problem with & I don't agree with the Newark Bus Study's proposed #99 either (for that reason you state of having it bypass Newark-Broad, along with that extension to Irvington Bus Terminal they have it doing)... The only thing I'd really do to the #99 to perhaps optimize it, is to again, truncate it to Beth Israel....

As far as your "96" & "99", I'm not necessarily seeing a reason to have the #96 shifted over to serve Bergen st..... When I first read your post there, it appeared to me as if you were trying to make the #96 stronger at the expense of the #99 (which is something I can't concur with)... The way I see it, the current #96 needs to be made more stronger/useful, separate from anything involving the #99..... So instead of turning the #96 towards Beth Israel like you mention, I would try my hand at having that run that to Irvington Terminal instead (via Lyons, via Union)... No real point in having it end around Valley Fair anymore, let alone in Valley Fair itself like it used to..... Where I do agree with your #96, is the running it up to Branch Brook LRT...

So yeah, I'd have the #96 & the #99 running from the LRT station... I would much rather kick the #92 out of serving Branch Brook (to have that end at Bloomfield Ctr) over the #99.... WIthout hesitation, I'd say that the #96 would loom more useful than the #92 (which has a tendency to die over there by Bloomfield Coll.) at the LRT station....

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7 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Your "98" I don't so much have a problem with & I don't agree with the Newark Bus Study's proposed #99 either (for that reason you state of having it bypass Newark-Broad, along with that extension to Irvington Bus Terminal they have it doing)... The only thing I'd really do to the #99 to perhaps optimize it, is to again, truncate it to Beth Israel....

As far as your "96" & "99", I'm not necessarily seeing a reason to have the #96 shifted over to serve Bergen st..... When I first read your post there, it appeared to me as if you were trying to make the #96 stronger at the expense of the #99 (which is something I can't concur with)... The way I see it, the current #96 needs to be made more stronger/useful, separate from anything involving the #99..... So instead of turning the #96 towards Beth Israel like you mention, I would try my hand at having that run that to Irvington Terminal instead (via Lyons, via Union)... No real point in having it end around Valley Fair anymore, let alone in Valley Fair itself like it used to..... Where I do agree with your #96, is the running it up to Branch Brook LRT...

So yeah, I'd have the #96 & the #99 running from the LRT station... I would much rather kick the #92 out of serving Branch Brook (to have that end at Bloomfield Ctr) over the #99.... WIthout hesitation, I'd say that the #96 would loom more useful than the #92 (which has a tendency to die over there by Bloomfield Coll.) at the LRT station....

I wouldn't say the #96 improvement would necessarily be at the expense of the #99. It's more having it take a load off it as far as doing too many things at once IMO. I think the resulting route would still hold its own ridership-wise. I think if anything, having the #96 heading towards Irvington Terminal might be more problematic for the #90, compared to running down Bergen Street being a problem for the #99.

Can you do a walk-through of a typical #99 trip heading southbound? (In terms of how much turnover there is at Broad Street, at University Hospital, and through the residential section of the Central Ward to Beth Israel?)

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14 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I wouldn't say the #96 improvement would necessarily be at the expense of the #99. It's more having it take a load off it as far as doing too many things at once IMO. I think the resulting route would still hold its own ridership-wise.....

I'm trying to see the correlation between [trying to maintain some sort of crosstown service along the current #96 (that this bus study would opt to eliminate) & doing away with the meandrous portions of the current #99] & [wanting to split the current #99]..... Even where you mentioned extra coverage around Springfield-Belmont, that can be accomplished by having the current #99 branched b/w S. Orange av & Avon av. (via running the current #99 course along Irvine Turner, and/or running along Bergen [a la, your 96])....

I'm categorizing your 96 as being at the expense of the current #99, given that one of the results of your splitting of the current #99 is by having your 96 running over a significant enough a portion of the current #99...

While I'd say your 99 would fare better than the current #96, your 99 to me performance-wise would pale in comparison to your 96 & your 98.... The lower 1/3rd of the current #99 is the weakest part of the route (which would end up being a more significant portion of your 99, compared to the current #99).... The upper half (say, north of Springfield) of the current #99 performs significantly better than the lower half of it... The more middle 1/3rd portion of the current #99 (say, b/w the highways) of the route isn't as strong as I think you think it is... I would be somewhat worried about your 99 if that were to come to fruition....

14 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I think if anything, having the #96 heading towards Irvington Terminal might be more problematic for the #90, compared to running down Bergen Street being a problem for the #99.

I would address the first portion of this statement, but that would be an admission by proxy of the latter portion of this statement.....

My sentiment isn't that Bergen street is a problem at all... My sentiment is that you're taking the better performing portion of Bergen (as in, at & north of Springfield) away from the current #99 (eastern side of Branch Brook Park [the actual park I'm referring to here, not the LRT station]) to give to your 96 (western side of Branch Brook Park)....

14 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Can you do a walk-through of a typical #99 trip heading southbound? (In terms of how much turnover there is at Broad Street, at University Hospital, and through the residential section of the Central Ward to Beth Israel?)

Sure, no problem.

From areas north of Newark-Broad (well Orange/MLK), turnover is far greater over there at University Hosp., along Bergen b/w Market & S. Orange.... Ridership on the route north of I-280 is pretty significant, even with the #27 paralleling it for a good chunk up there.... From Branch Brook LRT, believe it or not, there's a greater demand for the #99 over that of for the #27R.... It is at that stop at Market/Bergen where the next wave of pax. on the #99 due south, starts boarding....

Service to Beth Israel from those boarding in the residential portion of the Central Ward vs. those boarding from points north of it (say, Springfield), I'd say favors the latter a bit.... Passenger activity due SB tends to simmer down in said residential portion of the Central Ward (meaning, you start seeing more alightings than boardings)..... A lot of that simmering down so early in the route, I do believe is due to where it terminates on the southern end (which I'm pretty sure is why they propose extending it to Irvington Terminal) - but at the same time, I wouldn't prolong the current #99 like that....

Hate to put it like this, but in my experiences over the years, it's been true.... South of Springfield, the #99 is about a notch or two above straggler level; it's not quite intermediate ridership level to me.... In saying that, I'm curious of 2 things: 1] How frequent you'd have your 99 running throughout most the day & 2] Where you'd have it terminating on the southern end, since you mention Irvington-Hillside already being covered by the #26.... The Weequahic portion outside of Beth Israel isn't all too great, thanks to the #39 being the show (so to speak) down there....

Edited by B35 via Church
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@B35 via Church Ah, I see. It seems I underestimated the amount of through-riding coming from the North Ward, and overestimated the amount of ridership on the southern portion of the route. To answer your question, I was thinking to have the #99 run every 15 minutes as planned (actually, for that matter I was planning on having the #96 run roughly every 30 minutes).  For the southern terminal, I actually wasn't sure. Possibly somewhere around Kean College or Union NJT Station. 

For the splitting, it was more from the perspective of thinking that 3 routes on Mount Prospect was overkill. But I wouldn't have a problem with cutting the #27 back to Newark Broad and having the #98 and #99 serve Mount Prospect. (If anything that balances everything out for that section of the North Ward...the #13 provides service straight down Broad Street, the #98 serves Newark Penn directly, and the #99 provides crosstown service)

Maybe having the #99 run down Bergen and the #96 swing over to Irvine Turner Blvd would help. That way both routes directly serve the hospital along Bergen)

On a side note, I haven't had a chance to watch this, but here are some updates on the redesign and Newark Penn Station reconstruction: 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/6/2022 at 1:01 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

@B35 via Church Ah, I see. It seems I underestimated the amount of through-riding coming from the North Ward, and overestimated the amount of ridership on the southern portion of the route. To answer your question, I was thinking to have the #99 run every 15 minutes as planned (actually, for that matter I was planning on having the #96 run roughly every 30 minutes).  For the southern terminal, I actually wasn't sure. Possibly somewhere around Kean College or Union NJT Station. 

For the splitting, it was more from the perspective of thinking that 3 routes on Mount Prospect was overkill. But I wouldn't have a problem with cutting the #27 back to Newark Broad and having the #98 and #99 serve Mount Prospect. (If anything that balances everything out for that section of the North Ward...the #13 provides service straight down Broad Street, the #98 serves Newark Penn directly, and the #99 provides crosstown service)

Maybe having the #99 run down Bergen and the #96 swing over to Irvine Turner Blvd would help. That way both routes directly serve the hospital along Bergen)

That's what I was saying to myself the entire time (he's overestimating #99 usage south of the hospital [University] & underestimating usage north of it)... I got the sense that you thought most of the north ward pax on the #99 were gunning for Newark-Broad.... But being that that's cleared up, if anything were to terminate around Kean, I'd say it'd have to end inside of it (which, IINM, @BreeddekalbL inquired about, not too long ago on here)... I always forget where NJT Union is; looked at the google map & didn't realize it was that proximate to Kean itself.....

Cutting the #27 (from the south) to Newark-Broad for your 98, so that your 98 & 99 serves Mt. Prospect (regardless if you'd maintain your 96 & 99 as you originally had it, or with the consideration that the 99 would stay on Bergen & the 96 would run on Irvine Turner), is basically a split of the #27F to do away with the #27R... Not sure if you would keep the #27B around.... While it balances things in the North Ward from that perspective, and not to say it's necessarily a bad idea per se, but I personally wouldn't favor splitting the #27F just so that North Ward riders get direct access to Newark-Penn.... For all that, you may as well completely get rid of the #27 & have the southern remnant (Irvington - Newark-Broad) be a branch of the #13.... While the Redesign Plan cuts #13 service north of the garage (Big Tree) & maintains the #13V, I would be more inclined to doing away with the #13V, to have the second branch serve Irvington Terminal via the #27's routing south of Downtown Newark... Maybe I'm going too far, but I, for the longest, have never cared for anything ending at Valley Fair... And being that buses have been kicked out of mall/plaza property, that sentiment of mine is even more justified.... AFAIC, the #13V is akin to the B41 Bergen Beach branch - they both exist, large in part, due to space issues at Irvington Terminal & Kings Plaza, respectively.... With schedule adjustments of that resultant routing/addition, you could perhaps trim service on a #13 of sorts, to where they could be redistributed (to a route like the #39, for example).....

=======================

...btw, good looking out with that youtube video.

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@B35 via Church How busy are the #13 and #27 west of Bergen Street? If they're not super-busy, I could see that working out. (I'm assuming the entirety of the #13V once it turns off Clinton is low ridership, with most people in Weequahic making their way to the #39 for service towards Downtown Newark, correct?)

And yeah in that scenario, I'd get rid of the #27B. If anything were to cover that part of Franklin, I might consider having the #72 run over there (as opposed to ending in Bloomfield, as part of the #72/74 restructuring I mentioned earlier)

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12 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

@B35 via Church How busy are the #13 and #27 west of Bergen Street? If they're not super-busy, I could see that working out. (I'm assuming the entirety of the #13V once it turns off Clinton is low ridership, with most people in Weequahic making their way to the #39 for service towards Downtown Newark, correct?)

And yeah in that scenario, I'd get rid of the #27B. If anything were to cover that part of Franklin, I might consider having the #72 run over there (as opposed to ending in Bloomfield, as part of the #72/74 restructuring I mentioned earlier)

If we're talking towards Irvington Terminal, they both tend to die off well before ever reaching the terminal, but it's more noticeable on the #27 than on the #13.... If we're talking about EB/NB service, the vast majority of people gun for the #13 at the terminal... Excluding the terminal, I almost want to say that things are pretty equal... "Almost" because 1] I'd say usage still favors the #13, and 2] I find the #27 south of Downtown Newark in general hard to gauge, as it's so hit or miss.... #13 usage (Irvington Term. branch) is much more consistent, including and/or excluding the terminal...

As for the #13V, while the #39 noticeably trumps it, I don't really want to say it has low ridership... It's closer to moderate than low (I'm doing the "so-so" hand gesture as I'm typing this).... Matter fact, I'd say the #13V & the #27 from their respective southern terminals are rather similar in usage (and unpredictability) - although in general, the #13 to/from Irvington Terminal still performs noticeably better than those Valley Fair #13's....

In any case, I would not classify either as super busy... I'd reserve that classification in that general area of Jersey for the #25 b/w Irvington Terminal & Downtown Newark...

-------------------------

As for the #72, as an aside, I'm past done with (enjoying fanning) that route.... I still abhor the #11 the most, but the #72 is now a close second to last, in terms of the Bloomfield av. routes (#28 & #29 are still cool to me).... Regardless, if you could, Refresh my memory with your #72/74 plan/restructure.

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@B35 via Church In that case, maybe it would be best to have the Hawthorne branch of your proposed #13 run down towards Valley Fair (or in other words, run the #13V via Hawthorne). Or maybe spin off the Valley Fair/Hawthorne branch as a separate route heading to Newark Penn. 

Out of curiosity, how much of the #39, #65/66 and #70 usage comes from Newark Penn vs. Downtown Newark (say, anything between Raymond Blvd and Lincoln Park). I know for the #62, it seems the vast majority are seeking Newark Penn itself, but I was curious as to how it was for some of the other routes heading south out of Newark Penn. 

For the Newark-Paterson route restructuring, I would have the #74 run down McCarter Highway and Broad Street to Newark Penn (in other words, Paterson-Passaic local and Passaic-Newark express). I would replace the Passaic-Branch Brook Park portion with a standalone route (let's say #77). The #72 would be truncated to a Paterson-Bloomfield route (or possibly a Paterson-Bloomfield-Branch Brook Park route). But in any case, the #74 would be the main route from Passaic County to Downtown Newark, while the #72 (assuming it ends at Branch Brook Park instead of Bloomfield) and #77 would provide the connection to the North Ward.

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I found out that Greyhound has two eastbound and one westbound trip between Newark Penn Station and the GW Bridge Bus Terminal (on its Boston - Philadelphia route). What are everyone's thoughts on a Newark - GWB route with a stop in Fort Lee? I think it could be a useful alternative to the #76 for Newark - Bergen County travel (and I think there should be some demand between GWB and Newark itself). 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/18/2022 at 11:06 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

@B35 via Church In that case, maybe it would be best to have the Hawthorne branch of your proposed #13 run down towards Valley Fair (or in other words, run the #13V via Hawthorne). Or maybe spin off the Valley Fair/Hawthorne branch as a separate route heading to Newark Penn. 

This is more or less implicating that the #27 would be better off running to Valley Fair instead of Irvington Terminal.... I only brought up having #13's run along Hawthorne, since your 96/98/99 plan would lead to a phasing out of the #27... It's not something I'd propose #13's do, since I wouldn't try to phase out the #27 (I would retain the #27F & the #27R)...

If there's anything I would form a separate route from, it would be portions of the #13V south of Clinton av... "Portions", because again, I wouldn't have a route of sorts ending at Valley Fair....

On 9/18/2022 at 11:06 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Out of curiosity, how much of the #39, #65/66 and #70 usage comes from Newark Penn vs. Downtown Newark (say, anything between Raymond Blvd and Lincoln Park). I know for the #62, it seems the vast majority are seeking Newark Penn itself, but I was curious as to how it was for some of the other routes heading south out of Newark Penn. 

Only route I can safely say that garners significantly more usage specifically at Newark-Penn is the #65.... Of the rest of the routes listed, the #70 sees the least amount of usage from Penn, compared to boardings within the rest of Downtown Newark....

On average throughout the day, yeah, I'd say the #62 has more trips that has more people boarding at Newark-Penn (compared to boardings within the rest of Downtown Newark) - However it's not all that uncommon to either having {significantly more people boarding within the rest of Downtown Newark} or {virtually being equal between the two}.... Lot of which is due to those airport workers....

On the #39, I'd say there are more trips that have more people boarding at Newark-Penn, compared to the rest of Downtown Newark, but not by much.... Sizable amount of riders from each..... With the #66 however, I'd say there are more people boarding within the rest of Downtown Newark by a noticeable margin....

On 9/18/2022 at 11:06 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

For the Newark-Paterson route restructuring, I would have the #74 run down McCarter Highway and Broad Street to Newark Penn (in other words, Paterson-Passaic local and Passaic-Newark express). I would replace the Passaic-Branch Brook Park portion with a standalone route (let's say #77). The #72 would be truncated to a Paterson-Bloomfield route (or possibly a Paterson-Bloomfield-Branch Brook Park route). But in any case, the #74 would be the main route from Passaic County to Downtown Newark, while the #72 (assuming it ends at Branch Brook Park instead of Bloomfield) and #77 would provide the connection to the North Ward.

I definitely remembered your Newark(Penn) - Paterson route, I just didn't remember what (or if you even gave a) number you gave it, back when you first introduced the idea.... As I was making the post, that's what I kept asking myself.... So that's why I asked what 72/74 restructure you were referring to... Thanks, though.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm thinking of how to provide better NYC-bound coverage from the Central Ward, and I think the solution is to split the #108 into two routes:

#108 - Starts at South 10th Street & Springfield Avenue, then runs via South 10th Street - 12th Avenue - Norfolk Street - 7th Avenue - State Street - Broad Street - Bridge Street - Harrison Avenue, and then continue to Union City and NYC

#109 - Starts at Clinton Avenue & South 20th Street, then runs via Clinton Avenue - MLK Blvd - Raymond Blvd - Market Street - Ferry Street, and then continues to Union City & NYC

Also, modifying my above plan, I'd have the #96 run down Roseville Avenue - Park Avenue - 1st Street into Bergen Street to provide a bit more coverage in Lower Roseville.

For the #97, I think having alternate #41 buses run up to Montclair would be a good replacement for the #97. (And definitely one of the two Montclair-East Orange-Newark routes should run on Sundays). 

 

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3 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I'm thinking of how to provide better NYC-bound coverage from the Central Ward, and I think the solution is to split the #108 into two routes:

#108 - Starts at South 10th Street & Springfield Avenue, then runs via South 10th Street - 12th Avenue - Norfolk Street - 7th Avenue - State Street - Broad Street - Bridge Street - Harrison Avenue, and then continue to Union City and NYC

#109 - Starts at Clinton Avenue & South 20th Street, then runs via Clinton Avenue - MLK Blvd - Raymond Blvd - Market Street - Ferry Street, and then continues to Union City & NYC

Also, modifying my above plan, I'd have the #96 run down Roseville Avenue - Park Avenue - 1st Street into Bergen Street to provide a bit more coverage in Lower Roseville.

For the #97, I think having alternate #41 buses run up to Montclair would be a good replacement for the #97. (And definitely one of the two Montclair-East Orange-Newark routes should run on Sundays). 

 

Want to see a map of the 108 and 109

Also i agree that either the 97 or 41 should run on sundays

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On 10/18/2022 at 10:23 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

I'm thinking of how to provide better NYC-bound coverage from the Central Ward, and I think the solution is to split the #108 into two routes:

#108 - Starts at South 10th Street & Springfield Avenue, then runs via South 10th Street - 12th Avenue - Norfolk Street - 7th Avenue - State Street - Broad Street - Bridge Street - Harrison Avenue, and then continue to Union City and NYC

#109 - Starts at Clinton Avenue & South 20th Street, then runs via Clinton Avenue - MLK Blvd - Raymond Blvd - Market Street - Ferry Street, and then continues to Union City & NYC

On 10/19/2022 at 7:35 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Sure, here's the 108 and 109

The #107 is dubbed/deemed the quote-unquote Irvington route, but what's underrated is how much of Newark it serves.... So by splitting the current #108 into two separate routes, that would be 3 Newark area routes that would run to NYC... I think that's overkill, especially considering Newark's bus network - specifically, the # of routes funneling into Newark-Penn....

Instead of splitting the current #108 to have two routes serve the Central Ward, I would alter the current #108 so that it runs straight to Newark-Penn after serving Union City (for starters).... Then after Newark-Penn, I'd have it serving parts of Newark somewhere between the #107's service area & the current #108's service area north of Newark-Penn (i.e., the central part of Newark)..., I'd sacrifice the ridership the current #108 gets in [the Ironbound] & [north of Newark-Penn], to serve the more central part of the city.... Haven't thought of an exact routing at the moment,

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3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The #107 is dubbed/deemed the quote-unquote Irvington route, but what's underrated is how much of Newark it serves.... So by splitting the current #108 into two separate routes, that would be 3 Newark area routes that would run to NYC... I think that's overkill, especially considering Newark's bus network - specifically, the # of routes funneling into Newark-Penn....

Instead of splitting the current #108 to have two routes serve the Central Ward, I would alter the current #108 so that it runs straight to Newark-Penn after serving Union City (for starters).... Then after Newark-Penn, I'd have it serving parts of Newark somewhere between the #107's service area & the current #108's service area north of Newark-Penn (i.e., the central part of Newark)..., I'd sacrifice the ridership the current #108 gets in [the Ironbound] & [north of Newark-Penn], to serve the more central part of the city.... Haven't thought of an exact routing at the moment,

I don't know how anyone can underestimate the #107 as a Newark route...I mean even Ivy Hill is in Newark for crying out loud :D

That being said, saying that the extensiveness of the local bus system in Newark is a reason that direct NYC-bound service should be minimized would be akin to saying that the extensiveness of the local bus system in southern Brooklyn is a reason to eliminate the BM routes (or let's say, leave it with just the BM1/2).

I will say that the current #108 doesn't do much in terms of expanding the walkshed of areas with a one-seat ride to NYC (Considering most of the areas of Newark that it serves are within walking distance of either Newark Broad or Newark Penn). It's obviously important for the connection to Union City, but as far as the connection to NYC, yeah, it's really an afterthought (And now that I think about it, even from Newark Broad Street, it's not quite as critical, since there are trains that go to Hoboken, where one could catch a bus or light rail to Union City and points north). So restructuring that and sending it to the Central Ward I can get on board with. 

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