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New Bus Newark Initiative


davemackey

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6 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I don't know how anyone can underestimate the #107 as a Newark route...I mean even Ivy Hill is in Newark for crying out loud :D

That being said, saying that the extensiveness of the local bus system in Newark is a reason that direct NYC-bound service should be minimized would be akin to saying that the extensiveness of the local bus system in southern Brooklyn is a reason to eliminate the BM routes (or let's say, leave it with just the BM1/2).

I will say that the current #108 doesn't do much in terms of expanding the walkshed of areas with a one-seat ride to NYC (Considering most of the areas of Newark that it serves are within walking distance of either Newark Broad or Newark Penn). It's obviously important for the connection to Union City, but as far as the connection to NYC, yeah, it's really an afterthought (And now that I think about it, even from Newark Broad Street, it's not quite as critical, since there are trains that go to Hoboken, where one could catch a bus or light rail to Union City and points north). So restructuring that and sending it to the Central Ward I can get on board with. 

Worse than underestimation, I've been asked if the #107 goes to Newark.... Of course, my next question was "Where in Newark".... All she said was "Bergen st", and then stormed towards the front of the bus to ask the b/o.... Very little surprises me when it comes to those sorts of things.....

You are misrepresenting my position by saying "...should be minimized".... The local bus network is what it is... You may disagree, but I do believe NJT doesn't have as many Newark-NYC routes because there are as many routes within Newark's local bus network that dump folks off at Newark-Penn...

Even if it is a comparison, I'm not sure why you're bringing up eliminating routes? I've not even remotely implicated (let alone said) that either one of us would eliminate local route{s} to support a Newark-NYC route.... I'm not even suggesting that with an expanded #108! So yeah, bad comparison to bring up the dynamic b/w NYC's local/express services, as there is a nuance there that can't be ignored.... You said nothing about having your 108 & 109 operate closed door (like NYC's express buses do, for the most part), nor that I thought that you would suggest that (are you?), nor should I be expected to automatically consider that, given that NJT's commuter routes to/from NYC by far & large, carry intrastate pax. as well....

The crux of this is that, what you're aiming to accomplish with 2, I think should be done with 1.... Looking at those maps of your routes in-particular, I'd say your #109 has more intrastate potential (assuming you'd have buses making stops along Harrison av) & your #108 has more interstate potential.... I would stay far away from anything running along Harrison av. to get to/from NYC or Union City... Traffic along Harrison was dreadful before they opened up that shopping plaza (Walmart, etc.)...

So to sum this up, by saying I think the #108 should be expanded (instead of split into 2 separate routes, as you suggest) isn't taking a position that Newark-NYC service should be minimized.... I think the #107's stint{s} in Newark & (having the) #108 diverted/extended to serve the more central part of Newark is enough... I'm not seeing the need for a whole 'nother route, especially one running via Harrison av. to get to Union City & NYC...

Edited by B35 via Church
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@B35 via Church To clarify, I definitely wouldn't have any NYC-bound routes running closed-door. (Actually, one of the purposes of my #109 is to provide a connection from University Hospital to Newark Broad Street, so that the #96 can run down 1st/Bergen, the #99 can run down Clifton/Norfolk/Irvine Turner)

My thinking is more along the lines of "a region with the size/density of Newark should have around 3-4 direct routes to NYC the same way a region the size of SE Brooklyn should have multiple express routes serving it). Also for the purposes of discussion, I'm including the DeCamp #44 as a Newark route (so the #107, extended/restructured #108,  and the #44 would meet the minimum requirement in my eyes, given how they are spaced geographically, but I think a fourth route would be useful if we could figure out a precise route)

Regarding Harrison Avenue, that is mainly for the purpose of having a direct connection to Midtown from that section of Harrison. (I know it has a lot of industrial areas, but it also has some residential developments). But I suppose advocating for more DeCamp #99 service (and eventual NJT takeover of them) would be more beneficial. 

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  • 2 months later...
7 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Some of my thoughts (most of which I've mentioned over here) in YouTube form: 

** youtube video**

Regarding the #78....

The current strip map in the timetable (nor the doug & adrienne maps) does things no justice, but that routing that they're showing being eliminated (in blue) around the Colonnade apt's in the Newark bus study is the current Newark bound routing.... It never serves the Colonnade apt's (after coming off the freeway, the next stop is Newark-Broad).... Newark bound from Harmon-Meadow, buses come off the Essex Fwy. at exit 14, then go Clifton > 7th > Broadway > Broad > University, etc. en route to Newark-Penn.

To sum that particular suggestion of theirs up, they're proposing having buses utilize exit 15 (McCarter Hwy), instead of exit 14 (over there by the Colonnade apts)... In doing that, you avoid serving Newark-Broad directly.... Don't agree with that at all.... Plenty of people in the morning board #78's at Newark-Broad (sometimes it's even more that board there, then at the Broad/Cedar (which is basically Raymond/Broad) stop....

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  • 8 months later...
28 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Assuming they haven't completely abandoned this study (which I don't believe to be the case), given that NJT's set to operating the #24, 31, and #44, there's a good chance this NewBus proposal will be amended.... How, will be the question.

 

 

Simple, throw it away. Scrap it

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14 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Assuming they haven't completely abandoned this study (which I don't believe to be the case), given that NJT's set to operating the #24, 31, and #44, there's a good chance this NewBus proposal will be amended.... How, will be the question.

Between that and the former DeCamp routes (the #109 physically enters the City of Newark, but obviously the other Essex County routes have an impact as well) they're going to need to revise it anyway. They forgot the #97 and #108 in the original plan (I guess because the #97 doesn't enter Newark and the #108 is an interstate route...but they include the #107...make that make sense). All of the other redesigns are by County (Burlington/Camden/Gloucester, Hudson, Passaic) so it makes sense to just do an Essex County redesign and call it a day. 

In any case, given the poor service levels on the #44 and the #31 west of Dover Street, my guess is that they might swing the #31 up to cover the western end of the #44 (at least to serve the VA Hospital, maybe if we're lucky they go out to Orange) and leave South Orange with just the #107 for east-west service. I would disagree vehemently with that (if anything I'd say more #31 buses should run to South Orange...if I were in charge I'd run it to St. Barnabas to connect to the proposed 773 to Livingston Mall), but I think it's a possibility. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/8/2023 at 1:19 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Between that and the former DeCamp routes (the #109 physically enters the City of Newark, but obviously the other Essex County routes have an impact as well) they're going to need to revise it anyway. They forgot the #97 and #108 in the original plan (I guess because the #97 doesn't enter Newark and the #108 is an interstate route...but they include the #107...make that make sense). All of the other redesigns are by County (Burlington/Camden/Gloucester, Hudson, Passaic) so it makes sense to just do an Essex County redesign and call it a day. 

In any case, given the poor service levels on the #44 and the #31 west of Dover Street, my guess is that they might swing the #31 up to cover the western end of the #44 (at least to serve the VA Hospital, maybe if we're lucky they go out to Orange) and leave South Orange with just the #107 for east-west service. I would disagree vehemently with that (if anything I'd say more #31 buses should run to South Orange...if I were in charge I'd run it to St. Barnabas to connect to the proposed 773 to Livingston Mall), but I think it's a possibility. 

I'd say it essentially is an Essex County redesign (still embarrassing that you forget to consider current routes in the network).... Guess using NewBus Newark (instead of NewBus Essex County, or something to that effect) has a better ring to it; marketing purposes....

The only way I'd support having the #31 serve S. Orange at this point, is if it goes on to serve (and eventually terminate) somewhere past it.... Basically, I don't agree with bothering to continue to have some trips end at S. Orange like they currently do.... St. Barnabas Hospital has a similar problem that Short Hills Mall has; in that it's a poor place to have a bus route end at.... I'd ideally like to have the #31 end at Short Hills, if it's going to run to past S. Orange.....

Given what was just said in the above paragraph, instead of breaking up the #1 the way they propose, I would like to see how a #31 between Dover St. & JSQ would perform (basically a combination of the #31 & their proposed #4) - With the point being to make it more useful in the opposite direction of the route (east of Newark, as opposed to west of South Orange)..... The #31 is noticeably quicker than the #1 west of Newark-Penn & most folks that use either branch of the #1 in Jersey City that rides past Jersey City, typically ride no further than Broad..... I can concur with having the #1 be more focused in transporting folks b/w Ivy Hill & the Ironbound, but I can't concur with running one (let alone two) routes b/w Newark-Penn & Jersey City on shit headways like their proposed #3 & #4.... Something else that irks me is their proposed relegating of service for those Terrell homes residents (Chapel, north of Raymond) with a frickin industrial boomerang route (that proposed #9; the East Ferry - Wilson av. route via Newark-Penn)....

Hmm... think I just stumbled onto a new term there.... gonna start using it from now on to describe those B24, Q38, NJT #452, etc. type of routes.... Boomerang route.

Edited by B35 via Church
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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Hmm... think I just stumbled onto a new term there.... gonna start using it from now on to describe those B24, Q38, NJT #452, etc. type of routes.... Boomerang route.

 

The 452 doesn't just "boomerang" — it intersects itself.

(Question: Does it offer a transfer privilege from itself to itself, or do people have to ride out of their way to get from one terminal to the other?)

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25 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

The 452 doesn't just "boomerang" — it intersects itself.

(Question: Does it offer a transfer privilege from itself to itself, or do people have to ride out of their way to get from one terminal to the other?)

Yeah, at 26th & River, before it turns off for the Kroc Center.

To your question, IDK (although I've thought about that, myself)....

 

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