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MTA/Academy Pool On The SIM23 & SIM24


JAzumah

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56 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yes, some of them do, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're taking the subway to places the SIMs go. On the other hand, plenty of people will stay on the express bus to Midtown because they want no part of the subway. I wouldn't mind a Midtown route on weekends if it did well, but the Downtown SIM2 did not perform well serving just five stops Downtown, hence why I would just run them from Midtown. As I said, I thought they not only had a small catchment area, but the scheduling was terrible. Too much service. Start times were too early, esp. the return service back to Tottenville (no one is using an express bus that early). Expand the catchment area, trim down the span and see how that works.

Not solely for taking the subway for places the SIM's go (although inclusive), but more merely looking to get off the bus because they don't want (or need) to ride it further north, for whatever their reasons/wherever they're going... Either way, I'd aim to do away with as much of that phenomenon as possible... Unlike other transit systems, NYC's commuter/express bus model isn't, nor shouldn't have near as noticeable a trend where folks are ditching for rail transit after having disembarked these buses.... Defeats the purpose AFAIC.... Leave the intra-city bus-to-subway model for the local buses....

Considering a certain demand for points past (as in, north of) Downtown Manhattan, if the SIM2 with the 5 stops or whatever underperformed, an extension to Midtown would attract more people seeking areas past Downtown.... So why have those folks sitting through Downtown... I don't know to what exact extent, but I do believe there's more of a demand for areas at & north of NoHo, than I do for areas b/w Downtown Manhattan & NoHo... That isn't to say nobody's seeking the latter, but as the saying goes, transportation exists for the masses & it can't be all things to all people.....

To sum it up, I would try my hand at a weekend Midtown direct (not a Midtown only) service first, before I would try my hand at a Midtown via Downtown service.... I personally don't care for drumming up long-winded barebone services... To me, a Midtown via Downtown service way out from Tottenville on the SIM2 reeks of desperation.... With that setup, I still think a majority of people would still ditch for the subway, the minute inbound buses reach Downtown & not garner enough ridership up to Midtown as a result....

Edited by B35 via Church
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31 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Not solely for taking the subway for places the SIM's go (although inclusive), but more merely looking to get off the bus because they don't want (or need) to ride it further north, for whatever their reasons/wherever they're going... Either way, I'd aim to do away with as much of that phenomenon as possible... Unlike other transit systems, NYC's commuter/express bus model isn't, nor shouldn't have near as noticeable a trend where folks are ditching for rail transit after having disembarked these buses.... Defeats the purpose AFAIC.... Leave the intra-city bus-to-subway model for the local buses....

Considering a certain demand for points past (as in, north of) Downtown Manhattan, if the SIM2 with the 5 stops or whatever underperformed, an extension to Midtown would attract more people seeking areas past Downtown.... So why have those folks sitting through Downtown... I don't know to what exact extent, but I do believe there's more of a demand for areas at & north of NoHo, than I do for areas b/w Downtown Manhattan & NoHo... That isn't to say nobody's seeking the latter, but as the saying goes, transportation exists for the masses & it can't be all things to all people.....

To sum it up, I would try my hand at a weekend Midtown direct (not a Midtown only) service first, before I would try my hand at a Midtown via Downtown service.... I personally don't care for drumming up long-winded barebone services... To me, a Midtown via Downtown service way out from Tottenville on the SIM2 reeks of desperation.... With that setup, I still think a majority of people would still ditch for the subway, the minute inbound buses reach Downtown & not garner enough ridership up to Midtown as a result....

You'll never eliminate that though, because the reality is some people are going to hop off for the subway. Hell when I first started taking the express bus, I took the X16 in, transferred to the 1 train at Rector St. There were other express bus options, but given that I wanted to stop off at certain places for breakfast, no express bus would've did it for me, so the subway was the best option. The way I look at it, the express bus is there to serve the Central Business Districts, and some people will have to transfer, just like Metro-North folks or LIRR folks. You just get the bus into the core of Midtown or Downtown. That puts some people directly near their offices with a short walk, and for others, a quick transfer most of the time, unless they are outside of the CBD.

The current SIM2 does some trips in about an hour, so you could even eliminate a few stops to keep the bus moving if need be on weekends. I just don't see either option getting enough ridership, otherwise I'd be open to either. I would probably do something like they did with the old X17 on weekends, where it ran limited hours. Maybe every half hour here and there, but primarily every hour. 

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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35 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You'll never eliminate that though, because the reality is some people are going to hop off for the subway. Hell when I first started taking the express bus, I took the X16 in, transferred to the 1 train at Rector St. There were other express bus options, but given that I wanted to stop off at certain places for breakfast, no express bus would've did it for me, so the subway was the best option. The way I look at it, the express bus is there to serve the Central Business Districts, and some people will have to transfer, just like Metro-North folks or LIRR folks. You just get the bus into the core of Midtown or Downtown. That puts some people directly near their offices with a short walk, and for others, a quick transfer most of the time, unless they are outside of the CBD.

The current SIM2 does some trips in about an hour, so you could even eliminate a few stops to keep the bus moving if need be on weekends. I just don't see either option getting enough ridership, otherwise I'd be open to either. I would probably do something like they did with the old X17 on weekends, where it ran limited hours. Maybe every half hour here and there, but primarily every hour. 

...Which doesn't help the case for an extension of the thing from Downtown, from that deep in SI on weekends (even if you do profess a concern of a Midtown direct routing not garnering enough riders)...

Anyway, you say you'd go about eliminating a few stops to keep the bus moving... I'd have it avoid the entire Downtown portion to mitigate runtime.... I've never been a fan of killing off bus stops for the purpose of making buses faster (regardless of express or local buses); it's one of the main issues I have with the Queens bus redesign as a matter of fact.... But to sum this up, what it boils down to is, where specifically are these people (South Shore patrons) trying to get to on weekends....

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2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

...Which doesn't help the case for an extension of the thing from Downtown, from that deep in SI on weekends (even if you do profess a concern of a Midtown direct routing not garnering enough riders)...

Anyway, you say you'd go about eliminating a few stops to keep the bus moving... I'd have it avoid the entire Downtown portion to mitigate runtime.... I've never been a fan of killing off bus stops for the purpose of making buses faster (regardless of express or local buses); it's one of the main issues I have with the Queens bus redesign as a matter of fact.... But to sum this up, what it boils down to is, where specifically are these people (South Shore patrons) trying to get to on weekends....

Right... We're not talking about tons of stops. Two or three, but in my mind, stops shouldn't be too close anyway. It's supposed to be an express bus, so having a stop every 7-8 City blocks is totally fine, or even about every 10-11 blocks, depending on the location. For example, having a stop at 34th and nothing until 23rd is totally doable. If you need anything up to 27th St, get on at 34th. Anything south of that. get on at 23rd, etc.

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7 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I'm not sure if you're talking during pre-covid times, but if so, it actually was (traffic) - especially around that noon to like, 4-5pm slot on Saturdays.... The parades & detours only exacerbated matters.

True, and also that same 12-5pm slot on Sundays as well (Saturdays, the buses ran a little more frequently so the gaps in service weren't quite as bad).

It's been a long time since I've actually rode an express bus all the way from Midtown via Downtown, even on the weekends (I would always make my way Downtown and try to catch it by the last couple of stops before the tunnel), so I would experience the delay, but not the traffic itself. But yeah, the mixture of parades and traffic (and traffic induced by the parades) often made a mess.

6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I travel on weekends. Traffic was definitely an issue pre-pandemic. Not sure why you would say it wasn't an issue. Parades have always happened down 5th. They aren't going away. I've worked along 5th Avenue in some capacity almost my entire career, and I'm somewhere on or near 5th on weekends often, be it Midtown, Chelsea or what have you. You deal with them. They're annoying, but they don't happen every single weekend.  I have taken the SIMs from up by CPS plenty of times. I don't find the travel time to be insane on weekends from Midtown to Downtown.

I didn't say it wasn't an issue. I said it wasn't the issue, and not something that would automatically be resolved by turning one section of the route into a busway.

6 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

What I am convinced of is that a majority of weekend express riders that get off in Downtown from SI gun for the subway.... There's something to that.... That phenomenon is what I would try to quell, or even eliminate....

This is true. I don't believe that it is necessarily a problem, but at the same time, if the routes can be reasonably restructured to reduce this phenomenon (by providing more off-peak direct Midtown service), I say go for it.

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The current SIM2 does some trips in about an hour, so you could even eliminate a few stops to keep the bus moving if need be on weekends. I just don't see either option getting enough ridership, otherwise I'd be open to either.

Not a single stop on the Staten Island end should be eliminated. On the Manhattan end...well we have a different viewpoint on that aspect anyway, so (**shrugs**)

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I would probably do something like they did with the old X17 on weekends, where it ran limited hours. Maybe every half hour here and there, but primarily every hour. 

They literally copy-pasted the old X17 schedule onto the SIM4C. Saturday service is every 20-30 minutes for the whole day. Sunday service is every 30-60 minutes. The sections of time on Sundays where it runs every 30 minutes are more than just "here and there", but in any case, I would agree to it for Sunday but not Saturday. (The frequency shouldn't be any worse than the X17/SIM4C)

But in any case, the big complaint about the old X17 on the weekends (which remains with the SIM4C, and was especially made worse when they had the SIM4C pick up X10 passengers) is that it didn't run late enough. Having the last bus out of Manhattan before 9:30pm on the weekends (and just after 9pm on Sundays) is ridiculous. The BM routes run later on Saturday and ridership is a fraction of what it is on the SIM2, let alone the SIM4C.

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33 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

1. I didn't say it wasn't an issue. I said it wasn't the issue, and not something that would automatically be resolved by turning one section of the route into a busway.

2. Not a single stop on the Staten Island end should be eliminated. On the Manhattan end...well we have a different viewpoint on that aspect anyway, so (**shrugs**)

3. They literally copy-pasted the old X17 schedule onto the SIM4C. Saturday service is every 20-30 minutes for the whole day. Sunday service is every 30-60 minutes. The sections of time on Sundays where it runs every 30 minutes are more than just "here and there", but in any case, I would agree to it for Sunday but not Saturday. (The frequency shouldn't be any worse than the X17/SIM4C)

But in any case, the big complaint about the old X17 on the weekends (which remains with the SIM4C, and was especially made worse when they had the SIM4C pick up X10 passengers) is that it didn't run late enough. Having the last bus out of Manhattan before 9:30pm on the weekends (and just after 9pm on Sundays) is ridiculous. The BM routes run later on Saturday and ridership is a fraction of what it is on the SIM2, let alone the SIM4C.

1. It'll never be perfect, and the idea that it's soooo hard to ride the express bus from Midtown to Downtown.... Thousands of riders do it on weekends.... It is really not that big of a deal unless you are absolutely obsessed with counting your commute down to the minute, which is the case with you, but I've done both (subway to the express bus and just the express bus), and quite frankly, the train has to be moving AND the connections really linking in order for you to save any real time over the express bus most of the time, so it's really not that big of a deal. It's a pain in the @ss to run to the subway, get on, and try to link with the express bus, but whatever floats your boat. I'm not up for all of that running around. Been there and done that. It gets tiring after a while. I still will do it in some cases, but only if it makes sense. If I'm saving a few minutes tops, forget it.

2. Seems like you have a reading problem. I thought it was clear that I said I would only eliminate 2-3 stops, and I only mentioned Manhattan, not Staten Island, so not sure what you're going bonkers about. You could definitely cut two or three stops from a line that ran from Midtown to Downtown depending on where it started. If you started it from Madison and 57th instead of Lex and 57th, that's one stop right there.

3. Just stop it. I'm thinking about a while ago when they first expanded the X17 service on weekends. It was definitely not that frequent overall. Either way, the point remains. The SIM2 does not need a bus every 30 minutes for the entire weekend, as there is simply not enough ridership for it, so you can do hourly service most of the time, and perhaps provide a bus every 30 minutes at some parts of the day. Yeah, no one likes hourly service, but some of the later X17 trips were not crowded at all, and there was no reason to run even more service on top of it, so it's still better than nothing at all. I sure as hell used it regardless. What's important is that the service is reliable and punctual. As ridership grows over time, you add more service to meet demand, just as they did with the old X1 on weekends. I definitely remember when it ran every 30 minutes earlier on during parts of the weekend, then every 20, every 15 and so on, as needed.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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20 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

1. It'll never be perfect, and the idea that it's soooo hard to ride the express bus from Midtown to Downtown.... Thousands of riders do it on weekends.... It is really not that big of a deal unless you are absolutely obsessed with counting your commute down to the minute, which is the case with you, but I've done both (subway to the express bus and just the express bus), and quite frankly, the train has to be moving AND the connections really linking in order for you to save any real time over the express bus most of the time, so it's really not that big of a deal. It's a pain in the @ss to run to the subway, get on, and try to link with the express bus, but whatever floats your boat. I'm not up for all of that running around. Been there and done that. It gets tiring after a while. I still will do it in some cases, but only if it makes sense. If I'm saving a few minutes tops, forget it.

2. Seems like you have a reading problem. I thought it was clear that I said I would only eliminate 2-3 stops, and I only mentioned Manhattan, not Staten Island, so not sure what you're going bonkers about. You could definitely cut two or three stops from a line that ran from Midtown to Downtown depending on where it started. If you started it from Madison and 57th instead of Lex and 57th, that's one stop right there.

3. Just stop it. I'm thinking about a while ago when they first expanded the X17 service on weekends. It was definitely not that frequent overall. Either way, the point remains. The SIM2 does not need a bus every 30 minutes for the entire weekend, as there is simply not enough ridership for it, so you can do hourly service most of the time, and perhaps provide a bus every 30 minutes at some parts of the day. Yeah, no one likes hourly service, but some of the later X17 trips were not crowded at all, and there was no reason to run even more service on top of it, so it's still better than nothing at all. I sure as hell used it regardless. What's important is that the service is reliable and punctual. As ridership grows over time, you add more service to meet demand, just as they did with the old X1 on weekends. I definitely remember when it ran every 30 minutes earlier on during parts of the weekend, then every 20, every 15 and so on, as needed.

1. That's my exact point. The routing is causing buses to be delayed, which affects both Midtown riders and Downtown riders (and those in the Greenwich Village area). 

2. You didn't specify Manhattan or Staten Island. You gave an example in Manhattan but that doesn't tell anything about your stance about eliminating stops on Staten Island.

3. The X17 started off with Saturday service in 2002 and Sunday service in 2012. But anyway, point taken.

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1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

1. That's my exact point. The routing is causing buses to be delayed, which affects both Midtown riders and Downtown riders (and those in the Greenwich Village area). 

2. You didn't specify Manhattan or Staten Island. You gave an example in Manhattan but that doesn't tell anything about your stance about eliminating stops on Staten Island.

3. The X17 started off with Saturday service in 2002 and Sunday service in 2012. But anyway, point taken.

1. Let's be real here. The dispatching sucks, which is a big problem. That's just the reality of it. I have sat at CPS with buses there laying over waiting to go to Staten Island with the current SIM system. No dispatch there. Drivers just sitting around leaving whenever, esp. on weekends, That is the one thing this redesign has not fixed. Staten Island B/Os seem to have to carte blanche to do whatever, and dispatch acts like they can't do anything to run the buses on-time. It's a joke, so before the redesign and after the redesign, I routinely have dealt with SIM/X buses that were 20+ minutes late, not because of traffic or detours, but just because drivers left whenever. 

2. I actually did. You just didn't see it. 

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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