First it was the ferries, now it's the express bus...

[R10 2952]

2 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Not to get too off topic, but I found Bill Thompson to be a practical, middle of the road politician with a good background (and I voted for him that year, as did a darn high number of other voters)

I watched the debates and his performance came across as anger without a plan.  Walked away from that convinced he would sink like a stone.

On even more of a side note, the total votes in that election were barely over a million.  No wonder all the candidates are crap when less than an eighth of the city's population bothers to vote. 

[Deucey]

14 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

Term limits were approved by voter referendum in 1993 and 1996.  In 2009 however, Bloomberg and other term-limited officials used the recession as a convenient excuse to override the limits and give themselves a third term.  Voters were pissed.  Bloomberg only got re-elected because his main opponent was completely incompetent, and a year later in 2010 a voter referendum to reinstate term limits passed by 73 percent.

So speed limits and bus lanes are constitutional/charter issues, and not part of a political mandate?

[R10 2952]

43 minutes ago, Deucey said:

So speed limits and bus lanes are constitutional/charter issues, and not part of a political mandate?

I wouldn't go so far as to call them constitutional or charter issues, but I do say that major, controversial changes across the city should not be imposed unilaterally by a single person or their administration.

Vision Zero was definitely not an item that had reasonably-broad consensus.  Read through the forum's topic history and you'll come across plenty of articles by @BrooklynBus that document how the NYC DOT blatantly ignored input from community boards and civic organizations to ram through their initiatives.  Hence my original point that many of DeBlasio's (and earlier, Bloomberg's) traffic concepts would not have come to pass had they been referendums on the ballot.

Nobody's going to vote for something that will make driving around more difficult unless a genuine, concerted effort is made to improve and expand public transit.  Bus lanes are a jack shit half-measure compared to building an actual subway. And even then, you have people claiming that congestion pricing is a must for new subways to happen, even though the real issue (pre-COVID anyway) was not a genuine lack of funding, but the fact that the politicians didn't adequately fund the MTA from already-existing, dedicated revenues in the first place.

DeBlasio pushing his anti-car agenda while he simultaneously opposed calls for the City to increase its contribution towards NYCT 5-6 years ago is case in point of why I don't blindly count on local elected officials to "do the right thing". 

Edited March 29, 2021 by R10 2952

[Deucey]

27 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

I wouldn't go so far as to call them constitutional or charter issues, but I do say that major, controversial changes across the city should not be imposed unilaterally by a single person or their administration.

But if he campaigned on lowering speeds on streets for pedestrian safety, and NYC voted for him, isn’t that part of his mandate from NYC voters - and appropriately “not controversial” - since it’s not a constitutional or charter issue and falls under “Home Rule” as NYS Law is concerned?

 

[R10 2952]

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

But if he campaigned on lowering speeds on streets for pedestrian safety, and NYC voted for him, isn’t that part of his mandate from NYC voters - and appropriately “not controversial” - since it’s not a constitutional or charter issue and falls under “Home Rule” as NYS Law is concerned?

Vision Zero was hardly the leading issue people voted him in for; most were tired of three terms of Bloomberg's uber-capitalist elitism and looked to DeBlasio in the hope he would take steps do undo the inequality greatly exacerbated by Bloomberg's policies.

And as I mentioned before, quite a handful of communities opposed many of the redesign plans his administration laid out (Woodhaven Boulevard being the most infamous example).  Tell them it wasn't controversial and I think they'd disagree.

Either way, outside of the military, 'my way or the highway' is no way to run things.  I didn't like it when teachers did it, didn't like it when bosses did it, and I don't like it when elected officials do it.  If a reasonable alternative exists, then I support the alternative- hence my position that major issues at the local level should be decided by referendum, and not by a bunch of politicians on a massive ego trip.

Edited March 29, 2021 by R10 2952

[JAzumah]

1 hour ago, R10 2952 said:

Nobody's going to vote for something that will make driving around more difficult unless a genuine, concerted effort is made to improve and expand public transit.  Bus lanes are a jack shit half-measure compared to building an actual subway. And even then, you have people claiming that congestion pricing is a must for new subways to happen, even though the real issue (pre-COVID anyway) was not a genuine lack of funding, but the fact that the politicians didn't adequately fund the MTA from already-existing, dedicated revenues in the first place.

DeBlasio pushing his anti-car agenda while he simultaneously opposed calls for the City to increase its contribution towards NYCT 5-6 years ago is case in point of why I don't blindly count on local elected officials to "do the right thing". 

BINGO! 

There is nothing wrong with traffic calming in high-volume locations. However, some people don't realize that buses and cars use the same streets. NYCDOT takes forever to implement anything bus related.

[P3F]

1 hour ago, R10 2952 said:

And as I mentioned before, quite a handful of communities opposed many of the redesign plans his administration laid out (Woodhaven Boulevard being the most infamous example).  Tell them it wasn't controversial and I think they'd disagree.

What doesn't help, is that in many cases, their redesigns are done in the worst way possible... Remove as many travel lanes as you can, and screw up parking as well. Some that come to mind are E.L. Grant Hwy, Flatbush Av, and Dyckman Street.

Recently they built "bus boarding islands" on Dyckman Street, which means that when making a stop, the M100 blocks the single travel lane, holding up everyone behind the bus. Dyckman was never great to drive on, but this is still quite the downgrade from 2 lanes each way, with two extra for parking (and normal bus stops next to the curb).

Edited March 29, 2021 by P3F

[Via Garibaldi 8]

10 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

@B35 via Church@Via Garibaldi 8@JAzumah To me, the express buses became a lot less useful once Vision Zero kicked in.  The expansion of pedestrian plazas, deliberate mistiming of traffic lights, lowering of the speed limit to 25 miles per hour even on major arteries like Queens Boulevard, and the overall attempts to artificially induce gridlock have largely stifled the utility many of these routes used to have.

More generally, I am neither pro nor anti car- I just don't like it when a mayor and his career bureaucrats think they can arbitrarily impose their ideology upon the rest of us.  Doesn't matter to me what side of the political aisle they stand on.  Had their initiatives been presented directly to the voters as referendums, I doubt even half of them would have passed.  Something like congestion pricing would never have gotten off the ground in NYC had it been a ballot measure.

I've been riding the express bus for over 15 years. The express buses initially were slower because of Vision Zero, but I'm pretty sure that some lights have been tweaked, so Vision Zero is less of a problem as shown by the performance of express buses since the pandemic. I get to Midtown at times that I used to before Vision Zero whenever I do use them (sometimes about 40 minutes, which is the times I used to get to Midtown), so the real problem is congestion, especially for-hire vehicles. They need to be capped, and the City has moved to do just that. The amount of vehicular traffic has been noticeable over the last six or seven years, and I say this as someone that gets around by car more now than before. Our streets simply are not built to handle all of the traffic we are seeing.

Express buses are the form of transit for many without subways, even if they aren't as quick as they used to be, but the alternative is still a lot longer when you have to take several subways and a bus.  My trips without the express bus would still be painfully long. I would take one bus (Bx7 or Bx10), take the  train down to 96th, transfer to the  unless I want to ride local all the way to 42nd St, then transfer to the  or  . One bus and three trains later I am in my office versus one bus, and it is a mini-marathon. It could be one train and one bus, but then a long walk afterwards. The more transfers that have to be made, the more chances for delays. I have been stuck quite a few times where the  had some problem around 137th St, and I had to get off and find a way Downtown, resulting in being an hour late for work.

People really don't understand unless they live in an area without subway access. I have also taken the  , which is even worse (I think it's one of the worse subway lines in the system), even if it is express, and a rather long ride on the Bx20, where you are subjected to the traffic along Broadway. Sometimes the subway ride can be fine, only to be destroyed by long waits for the bus. I much prefer the express bus. One bus. If there is traffic, I can sit and relax or take a nap, and delays are usually pretty predictable so that you build in a little extra time for them.

Then there is the fact that very few subways up here are ADA accessible. We have a large senior population, and many of them are simply not mobile, and the express buses are a lifesaver, as they would be stuck at home otherwise. There are a number of seniors in my group that depend on them, so they are vital form of transit for us. You are looking at it solely in terms of how quick the trips are, when the reality is that the subway service pre-COVID was garbage, with constant delays. Believe me, I have arrived LATE to a number of functions because of it, and it is the reason why I use cars more now and avoided them (the subway) pre-COVID for trips that could not be done with the express bus, and I'm just talking about trips primarily within Manhattan.

For the record, I have used the subway since I was a teenager. I think the service has worsened considerably on a number of lines. It seems that pre-COVID, quite a few subway lines were maxed a capacity, with overcrowded trains where you couldn't get on and had to wait several trains. That is something the  has not addressed either, so we need to encourage ALL modes of transit. I support more ferries, more railroad service, express bus service and so on to take the strain off of our subways. COVID may have been a blessing in disguise, as it means some people can work from home and free up space on the trains.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BrooklynBus]

On 3/29/2021 at 12:08 AM, Deucey said:

But if he campaigned on lowering speeds on streets for pedestrian safety, and NYC voted for him, isn’t that part of his mandate from NYC voters - and appropriately “not controversial” - since it’s not a constitutional or charter issue and falls under “Home Rule” as NYS Law is concerned?

 

But he lied when he campaigned. He promised that  Vision Zero would not include arterials. That the default speed on residential local streets would be reduced from 30 to 25 mph. That only made sense for narrow streets, not for all local streets.

But even worse, the first streets he attacked were arterials. For example the speed limit on some arterials like Coney Island Avenue was lowered to 25 mph even before Vision Zero went into effect under the slow speed zone program. Then when Vision Zero took effect, the speeds on virtually every arterial in the city was reduced to 25 mph, in effect eliminating arterials, turning all streets into local streets.

Brooklyn which has very few highways was especially hard hit. Arterials with few pedestrians such as Flatbush Avenue near the Belt Parkway where the speed lanes limit was 40 or 35 mph had their speed limits lowered by 5 or 10 mph too, which was never mentioned when the Vision Zero Plan.

Also, many lanes were striped off to further slow traffic, or were turned into bus or bike lanes. Unnecessary traffic channelization, and turn restrictions also increased travel times, not to mention massive elimination of parking spaces where it is already in short supply. 

Not only was car travel slowed, but bus travel was slowed as well, since they also have to obey speed limits. 

Edited April 23, 2021 by BrooklynBus

[BrooklynBus]

On 3/29/2021 at 12:57 AM, R10 2952 said:

Vision Zero was hardly the leading issue people voted him in for; most were tired of three terms of Bloomberg's uber-capitalist elitism and looked to DeBlasio in the hope he would take steps do undo the inequality greatly exacerbated by Bloomberg's policies.

And as I mentioned before, quite a handful of communities opposed many of the redesign plans his administration laid out (Woodhaven Boulevard being the most infamous example).  Tell them it wasn't controversial and I think they'd disagree.

Either way, outside of the military, 'my way or the highway' is no way to run things.  I didn't like it when teachers did it, didn't like it when bosses did it, and I don't like it when elected officials do it.  If a reasonable alternative exists, then I support the alternative- hence my position that major issues at the local level should be decided by referendum, and not by a bunch of politicians on a massive ego trip.

And as far as Woodhaven was concerned, they also lied about that promising decreased bus travel time by up to 30 percent. When they released their progress report, they could only show a 3 percent reduction in travel time for bus riders, but they still claimed success. Of course they ignored the increased travel time for cars by 20 minutes or more during the rush hours and about 5 minutes more at other times. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

13 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

And as far as Woodhaven was concerned, they also lied about that promising decreased bus travel time by up to 30 percent. When they released their progress report, they could only show a 3 percent reduction in travel time for bus riders, but they still claimed success. Of course they ignored the increased travel time for cars by 20 minutes or more during the rush hours and about 5 minutes more at other times. 

 

Sounds like somebody wants to enforce the old Robert Moses policy that "cities exist only to be conduits for suburban traffic" and thus aren't entitled to their own viability. 

[bobtehpanda]

Also, the subtext with "ignoring communities" here is that certain people feel some type of way but in no means is this actually necessarily representative.

Community Boards are appointed by Borough Presidents at their discretion and you have to apply, and no term limits. In practice, this usually results in community boards that are

• whiter than the neighborhood at large
• more male than the neighborhood at large
• older than the neighborhood at large
• and, where this data is available, more representative of homeowners than the neighborhood at large.

This problem is particularly acute in neighborhoods that have seen major demographic shifts over the years. White people are overrepresented on every single community board in the borough.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

25 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Also, the subtext with "ignoring communities" here is that certain people feel some type of way but in no means is this actually necessarily representative.

Community Boards are appointed by Borough Presidents at their discretion and you have to apply, and no term limits. In practice, this usually results in community boards that are

• whiter than the neighborhood at large
• more male than the neighborhood at large
• older than the neighborhood at large
• and, where this data is available, more representative of homeowners than the neighborhood at large.

This problem is particularly acute in neighborhoods that have seen major demographic shifts over the years. White people are overrepresented on every single community board in the borough.

 

It's not just Community Boards. 

 

When I lived in Kew Gardens, I wanted to join the local Civic Association but couldn't — only single-family houses counted as "part of the community" and I lived in an apartment.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

42 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Also, the subtext with "ignoring communities" here is that certain people feel some type of way but in no means is this actually necessarily representative.

Community Boards are appointed by Borough Presidents at their discretion and you have to apply, and no term limits. In practice, this usually results in community boards that are

• whiter than the neighborhood at large
• more male than the neighborhood at large
• older than the neighborhood at large
• and, where this data is available, more representative of homeowners than the neighborhood at large.

This problem is particularly acute in neighborhoods that have seen major demographic shifts over the years. White people are overrepresented on every single community board in the borough.

This is a much to do about nothing. As was stated, those who want to apply can, and anyone on the board LIVES in the district. At the end of the day, it comes down to who wants to be on the board. I'm not on my board, but attend a number of meetings to get things done in the district and to keep the quality of life high.

[bobtehpanda]

16 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

This is a much to do about nothing. As was stated, those who want to apply can, and anyone on the board LIVES in the district. At the end of the day, it comes down to who wants to be on the board. I'm not on my board, but attend a number of meetings to get things done in the district and to keep the quality of life high.

Not much use asking people their opinions if they don't represent their community accurately.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Not much use asking people their opinions if they don't represent their community accurately.

The job of every board member is to represent the entire district and their needs. I don't see why much else should matter. They volunteer their time for the better of the community.

[bobtehpanda]

12 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The job of every board member is to represent the entire district and their needs. I don't see why much else should matter. They volunteer their time for the better of the community.

Humans have personal biases. And it's not that hard to find incidents where they let their true colors show.

Quote

Queens Borough President Donovan Richards reappointed a controversial member of a community board who once said that some pedestrians “deserve” to die — even as he unveiled a slate of reforms this week to ensure that community boards better represent the communities they’re supposed to serve, not just the loudest people, who have historically been wealthy, White, and older car-owners, in favor of people of color, lower-income residents, and people who rely on public transit.

Richards’s reappointment of Flushing resident Kim Ohanian to Community Board 7 came as a shock, given Ohanian’s comments at a May, 2019, public meeting — comments that then-Council Member Richards condemned and said would not be tolerated if he got the borough’s top job.

Quote

A Brooklyn community board member has come under fire for saying Frontus shouldn’t have apologized in a racist anti-Asian tirade of his own.

“These Chinese restaurants in our community make millions of dollars off us,” Ronald X. Stewart, a friend of Frontus, wrote on social media Tuesday. “They don’t hire us; don’t donate to any of our events and express racism against us.”

The United Chinese Association of Brooklyn wrote Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams demanding Stewart be removed from Community Board 13, stating Wednesday, “what hurts the community the most is [when] people attack each other.”

“Adams condemns in the strongest possible terms the comments made this week by a community board member," the beep’s spokesman Jonah Allon said in a statement. "The NYC Charter only permits a community board to remove current board members, but we will not be reappointing the board member that made the comments.”

Quote

In followup interviews with these outlets, the 30-year community board veteran effectively dug herself a hole so deep she's in danger of gophering out in China.

Asked how she could tell if only immigrants were using bike lanes, Darby told ABC7: "Some people wear unusual dress, so you can tell if they are bred and born here."

Responding to the same question from DNAinfo, she said she used "observation and logic" to pick an immigrant out of a crowd. "You can kind of tell, especially sometimes the way they dress."

And once more, again answering the same question from NBC4, she said: "Well, I use certain kinds of dress, the people I know use certain kind of dress. If different people wear different kids of dress, you know they're different kinds of people."

Darby also told DNAinfo that, using her acute observational skills, she determined recently that ICE has already rounded up the majority of NYC's bicycle-riding illegals. "I see who goes by and who doesn't, and there was a lot of people going by to work early in the morning, and like about 90 percent of them are gone," she said — a clear sign that they had been "picked up by ICE." She then said: "It looks like they were illegal aliens, I don't know, I didn't speak to them."

Things got even cringier in her convo with NBC4. "They were telling me, ICE is going through Corona, Jackson Heights and Elmhurst, so when ICE goes through, logistically speaking, they're not going to have people using bike lanes," Darby said.

And finally, summing up her general life approach to NBC4: "I'm a realist, not a racist. I speak the truth."

A bad apple spoils the bunch.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Humans have personal biases. And it's not that hard to find incidents where they let their true colors show.

A bad apple spoils the bunch.

Right. I never said board members are perfect. If they are conducting themselves in a way that is inappropriate, that should be dealt with.

[B35 via Church]

8 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Sounds like somebody wants to enforce the old Robert Moses policy that "cities exist only to be conduits for suburban traffic" and thus aren't entitled to their own viability. 

I get what it's supposed to mean, but as worded, that quote from our good friend robert moses never made much sense to me - especially considering that suburbanites aren't doing a shit ton of driving through urbanized citi(es) to get from one suburb/exurb to some other suburb/exurb..... In the NY Metropolitan area? LMFAO - How many non-urbanites that can even afford a car, work in non-urban areas - compared to non-urbanites that work in urbanized areas...

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

Also, the subtext with "ignoring communities" here is that certain people feel some type of way but in no means is this actually necessarily representative.

Community Boards are appointed by Borough Presidents at their discretion and you have to apply, and no term limits. In practice, this usually results in community boards that are

• whiter than the neighborhood at large
• more male than the neighborhood at large
• older than the neighborhood at large
• and, where this data is available, more representative of homeowners than the neighborhood at large.

This problem is particularly acute in neighborhoods that have seen major demographic shifts over the years. White people are overrepresented on every single community board in the borough.

Nice to know cronyism is still alive...

1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

It's not just Community Boards. 

When I lived in Kew Gardens, I wanted to join the local Civic Association but couldn't — only single-family houses counted as "part of the community" and I lived in an apartment.

Nice to know "keeping up with the Jones' " is still alive (just who the heck the Jones' are, is another topic )...

45 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Not much use asking people their opinions if they don't represent their community accurately.

While I agree with the sentiment, how much "asking" is even transpiring by residents of their respective CB territories though....

Edited April 24, 2021 by B35 via Church

[MHV9218]

Not for nothing, if we got rid of community boards tomorrow, New York City would be a significantly better place. 

[QM1to6Ave]

1 hour ago, MHV9218 said:

Not for nothing, if we got rid of community boards tomorrow, New York City would be a significantly better place. 

They can be useful at times--I've had some positive results contacting my local CB on some local issues that my politicians couldn't be bothered to write back to me about. But I agree, in many cases the board members have enormous egos and think they run a fiefdom, causing headaches for some local businesses etc 

[B35 via Church]

7 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

Not for nothing, if we got rid of community boards tomorrow, New York City would be a significantly better place. 

I'm not all that high on them either, but I'm curious as to why you deem this city would significantly be a better place without em.... I think it would be immaterial/wouldn't make much difference if they didn't exist.

Edited April 27, 2021 by B35 via Church

[MHV9218]

6 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I'm not all that high on them either, but I'm curious as to why you deem this city would significantly be a better place without em.... I think it would be immaterial/wouldn't make much difference if they didn't exist.

It varies a little bit by neighborhood, but you get two problems at once imo:

1) specific nuisances by NIMBY boards – won't allow a new restaurant, a liquor license, a bar; favor projects approved by other rich people and their staid suburban-esque lives

2) specific nuisances that the city then learns from, internalizes, and turns into a policy norm – i.e. board X in Queens refuses to approve a bus lane/bike lane and threatens to sue, the city doesn't want to risk losing the right to build any bus/bike lines, so they give up ever trying to build bike/bus lanes because they want to avoid the conflict

That second category has a real insidious, subtle effect where the whole scope of projects attempted by the city gets weaker and lamer by the year because they anticipate losing out to community boards that (as bobtehpanda is saying) don't really represent anybody and tend to skew towards the people who can show up at their weekday afternoon meetings (by and large old people, retired people, people with more money, and you can go figure from there what that looks like demographically). 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

40 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

It varies a little bit by neighborhood, but you get two problems at once imo:

1) specific nuisances by NIMBY boards – won't allow a new restaurant, a liquor license, a bar; favor projects approved by other rich people and their staid suburban-esque lives

2) specific nuisances that the city then learns from, internalizes, and turns into a policy norm – i.e. board X in Queens refuses to approve a bus lane/bike lane and threatens to sue, the city doesn't want to risk losing the right to build any bus/bike lines, so they give up ever trying to build bike/bus lanes because they want to avoid the conflict

That second category has a real insidious, subtle effect where the whole scope of projects attempted by the city gets weaker and lamer by the year because they anticipate losing out to community boards that (as bobtehpanda is saying) don't really represent anybody and tend to skew towards the people who can show up at their weekday afternoon meetings (by and large old people, retired people, people with more money, and you can go figure from there what that looks like demographically). 

People that show up or attend their community board meetings are involved. The meetings for the most part are after working hours, so everyone can attend. No one is stopped from attending. I've been attending board meetings virtually now and one lady had the nerve to say that we were "privileged" because we were attending the board meeting and speaking out in opposition to the DOT's proposal to narrow a very important corridor in our community that would impact emergency vehicles and the like getting through should something happen. It's a preposterous thing to say that community boards don't really represent anyone. I can't speak for all of them, but the ones I've been involved with, the board members have lived in the neighborhood for decades and volunteer a ton of time to ensure that they truly represent the neighborhoods they live in.

If people give a damn about where they live, they will attend the meetings and work them into their schedules.  If it is something that I know is going to impact my quality of life, I will and have taken off from work if need be to be sure that my voice is heard. That's just the way it is. The neighborhoods with a high quality of life are involved and the residents volunteer a great deal of time and effort in keeping their neighborhoods nice. That may mean giving up a weekend or what have you. We have many people like that in my neighborhood (and they are not white, rich or elderly either). Just ordinary people that give a damn about where they live, and I applaud them. We have a man and a lady that either arrange volunteer clean-ups or do it on their own on weekends or whenever. The whole classist angle constantly thrown around is pathetic and simply not true. If you want your neighborhood to thrive and remain nice, you get involved, otherwise, it turns to s***, especially with this De Blasio administration. Their goal is to destroy safe, upper middle to upper class areas. He won't touch the yuppie areas like Park Slope though. That's his backyard, of course not.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

13 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

They can be useful at times--I've had some positive results contacting my local CB on some local issues that my politicians couldn't be bothered to write back to me about. But I agree, in many cases the board members have enormous egos and think they run a fiefdom, causing headaches for some local businesses etc 

If we got rid of community boards, the de Blasio types would have a field day ramming through projects with their one size fits all mentality. Make no mistake about it. For the most part, he doesn't give a damn about the outer borough middle class areas. He's trying to destroy areas of Northeast Queens like Little Neck, claiming that he's making a "fairer" City. Please. Same nonsense in Middle Village and Glendale.