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MHV9218

Governor Fear-Mongers about the Subway

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4 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

lol I guess you missed the part about police officers retiring en masse... There may be lots of stations, but the NYPD can't recruit fast enough to replace all of the cops that are throwing in the towel. When you have an anti-police environment, this is what you get. I have friends who are cops that I grew up with. They feel demoralized, unappreciated and undervalued, not just as cops, but as human beings. They have families to go home to just like we do.  When you have the bail reform changes, and you see the same perps being arrested and then released over and over again because they committed "non-violent crimes", you have to wonder what's the point? The City's goal is empty out the jails so that they can close down Rikers and build those lovely borough-based jails. If you think it's because they give a damn about the conditions on Rikers Island, I have a bridge to sell you.

If I announced that I was going to arrange an anti-subway crime armed militia, they would put 2,000 cops in the subway so fast your head would spin. The city is doing the minimum on everything until someone pushes them.
 

24 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I love it when the naysayers like you experience something. Then that makes it valid. :lol:

I am a realistic person. Everyone wants to go to fantasyland and they can't accurately peg where they are now. I am that "We Are Here" arrow.

An assessment of reality is just that. Where you go from there is always a choice. 

Deucey is correct. When I was a kid, the Transit Police was always visible where they were needed. They tried to put more people near the hotspots. After the merger, the NYPD was never as visible as the Transit Police were. They went through phases of having officers ride trains and when they did that, crime went way down. This has nothing to do with retirements. It has everything to do with priorities.

The subways have been functional and decent on safety for years. The element that is riding through the city center was not allowed to do that with impunity. People are not complaining for their health. The change is real and substantial. A friend of mine almost had a problem on the Second Avenue Subway and look at the real estate around it.

My main philosophy is that public transit dollars be used to carry people and provide enough mobility to support the economy. I do not believe that public transportation should be constructed solely to stimulate land development unless the developers want to kick in some dough. The ferries make me upset because the city swears it has no more room for transit money as it operates ferries to develop land. You will never get me to accept that. $30M/year could operate 3-4 more SBS routes and SBS is a much bigger improvement in public transit than some toy boats. 

The city is reopening because the banks and the stock exchange threatened to leave. I am glad they did that. The supply chain in the country is fraying because they are short on manpower. Everyone is complaining about being short on employees. It is impacting food production. NYC was going to be f'ed if corporations started leaving for NC, FL, TX, and TN. The people who run the city think people don't have a choice but to be here. They are dead wrong. Someone recently said they were surprised that I am still in NYC.

At the end of the day, if you don't run the MTA in a sustainable matter, then it will become a job that no one wants. Feinberg is actually pretty good. Hopefully, people will let her do her job. The subways have to be safe or the MTA will not be able to balance the books without catastrophic cuts. What you saw proposed last year is sitting on a shelf someplace.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

If I announced that I was going to arrange an anti-subway crime armed militia, they would put 2,000 cops in the subway so fast your head would spin. The city is doing the minimum on everything until someone pushes them.
 

I am a realistic person. Everyone wants to go to fantasyland and they can't accurately peg where they are now. I am that "We Are Here" arrow.

An assessment of reality is just that. Where you go from there is always a choice. 

Deucey is correct. When I was a kid, the Transit Police was always visible where they were needed. They tried to put more people near the hotspots. After the merger, the NYPD was never as visible as the Transit Police were. They went through phases of having officers ride trains and when they did that, crime went way down. This has nothing to do with retirements. It has everything to do with priorities.

The subways have been functional and decent on safety for years. The element that is riding through the city center was not allowed to do that with impunity. People are not complaining for their health. The change is real and substantial. A friend of mine almost had a problem on the Second Avenue Subway and look at the real estate around it.

My main philosophy is that public transit dollars be used to carry people and provide enough mobility to support the economy. I do not believe that public transportation should be constructed solely to stimulate land development unless the developers want to kick in some dough. The ferries make me upset because the city swears it has no more room for transit money as it operates ferries to develop land. You will never get me to accept that. $30M/year could operate 3-4 more SBS routes and SBS is a much bigger improvement in public transit than some toy boats. 

The city is reopening because the banks and the stock exchange threatened to leave. I am glad they did that. The supply chain in the country is fraying because they are short on manpower. Everyone is complaining about being short on employees. It is impacting food production. NYC was going to be f'ed if corporations started leaving for NC, FL, TX, and TN. The people who run the city think people don't have a choice but to be here. They are dead wrong. Someone recently said they were surprised that I am still in NYC.

At the end of the day, if you don't run the MTA in a sustainable matter, then it will become a job that no one wants. Feinberg is actually pretty good. Hopefully, people will let her do her job. The subways have to be safe or the MTA will not be able to balance the books without catastrophic cuts. What you saw proposed last year is sitting on a shelf someplace.

You can't prioritize when you don't have enough manpower. That's just a fact. You think the subways are the only problem? Various neighborhoods around the City are asking for more police presence, and each time, the response is, "We are short manpower", in some cases down 100 police officers, and that's just one precinct. That is not a small number. Now you can deal with some issues sure, but when you are short as much as the NYPD is to the point to where de Blasio is stopping officers from retiring, it's a problem... A big one... You can plug the holes with overtime to some extent, but there's only so many officers to go around, even with OT.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You can't prioritize when you don't have enough manpower. That's just a fact. You think the subways are the only problem? Various neighborhoods around the City are asking for more police presence, and each time, the response is, "We are short manpower", in some cases down 100 police officers. That is not a small number. Now you can deal with some issues sure, but when you are short as much as the NYPD is to the point to where de Blasio is stopping officers from retiring, it's a problem... A big one... You can plug the holes with overtime to some extent, but there's only so many officers to go around, even with OT.

The subways are the #1 priority. They can ask DHS for additional police if needed from all over the country.

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1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

When you have an anti-police environment, this is what you get. I have friends who are cops that I grew up with. They feel demoralized, unappreciated and undervalued, not just as cops, but as human beings.

Self-inflicted wounds that are easy to heal - especially within the NYPD, but that's another OT debate.

I wish I could remember where I read it - it's been years, but in the 00s there were comments in newspapers about how too much responsibility was being put on police for them to do their job effectively and correctly. IIRC, part of it was related to terrorism law and social services duties like mentally disturbed persons. Leaving out the systemic racism in policing from the beginning, here we are.

That's why I haven't understood two things about NYPD:

1) 35,000 sworn officers and they can't find at least 2800 to be in station on platforms to rapid respond if something happens (ie not need to hold at station and wait for at least two cops to come into the paid fare area)

2) Why NYC needs 35,000 when City of LA has half NYC's population and only 1/4 of the cops (without CHP and LA Sheriff supplementing on patrols)

As much as people kvetch here about bloated inefficiency of (MTA) staff, no one seems to ask why NYPD is so big but ineffective in it's overall responsibility, and in this narrow one for the Transit Division.

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18 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

The subways are the #1 priority. They can ask DHS for additional police if needed from all over the country.

And to hell with everything else...

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

MTA says they're cleaning the cars at each terminal and that's a downright lie.

I wouldn't go that far to say what you said @Lawrence St.

On one of my last (5) train rides before the one that sent me, my mother, and my younger brother down the (2) train, I noticed that the floor was mopped clean, particularly the one that the conductor was going to be in his cab for the journey to Bowling Green. I haven't felt comfortable sitting at the wheelchair end of the car where the conductor would be out of wanting to give space to the conductor or motorman that is in the cab.

I think the one thing that was likely etched into my conscience came when I entered the (4) train with my mom for the first time during the pandemic last June, when the Mosholu conductor of that interval my mom and I entered on the east track (that is, Track 4) put caution tape in the wheelchair area to create a space between himself and the other passengers and I could not blame him for doing that given the current situation and circumstances; the last time that I entered it was the previous March with a Mosholu conductor that knew me from when I used to get off at Burnside to go to my former place at the Mount Hope Houses right by 179, and I haven't seen him to know how he had been coping with the pandemic. This happened about a week or two before the lockdown began in the city later that month.

I cannot deny that I have been on edge; I felt more at peace when the (4) train was not as packed early in the pandemic, but the recent times that I have taken it with or without my mom weekdays or weekend, people have flocked to it the likes that I haven't really seen since the pandemic likely because of its status as the main express backbone. It is why I have mostly taken the (5) train over the weekend - the ridership there hasn't really rebounded since the pandemic, much less before that.

Edited by 4 via Mosholu
clarification needed.

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21 minutes ago, Deucey said:

1) 35,000 sworn officers and they can't find at least 2800 to be in station on platforms to rapid respond if something happens (ie not need to hold at station and wait for at least two cops to come into the paid fare area)

Every train between midnight and 5am should have eight officers on it. During the day, at least two officers should be on every train. 

They can find the officers if pushed.

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25 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

And to hell with everything else...

The subway is the absolute #1 priority. If you can eliminate the use of the subway as a "residence" and a staging area for opportunistic crime, you can then use officers to transition between the two environments as needed. The subway officers need not be confined there.

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15 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I think the point that all of us on here agree with is that services for the chronically mentally ill who live in the subway are severely under resourced, but it is not "sexy" to fund those programs, so the situation never really improves. Sigh. 

Excellent point.  It's not "sexy" to fund programs that can help the homeless and others with serious mental issues, but until people address that fact, this is a vicuous cycle that will continue. 

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1 hour ago, Deucey said:

Self-inflicted wounds that are easy to heal - especially within the NYPD, but that's another OT debate.

I wish I could remember where I read it - it's been years, but in the 00s there were comments in newspapers about how too much responsibility was being put on police for them to do their job effectively and correctly. IIRC, part of it was related to terrorism law and social services duties like mentally disturbed persons. Leaving out the systemic racism in policing from the beginning, here we are.

That's why I haven't understood two things about NYPD:

1) 35,000 sworn officers and they can't find at least 2800 to be in station on platforms to rapid respond if something happens (ie not need to hold at station and wait for at least two cops to come into the paid fare area)

2) Why NYC needs 35,000 when City of LA has half NYC's population and only 1/4 of the cops (without CHP and LA Sheriff supplementing on patrols)

As much as people kvetch here about bloated inefficiency of (MTA) staff, no one seems to ask why NYPD is so big but ineffective in it's overall responsibility, and in this narrow one for the Transit Division.

That number consists of things like Traffic Agents, School Safety Agents and so on. If we look at those two groups alone, they make up almost 10,000 employees, so it's not really 35,000 police officers. lol

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54 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Self-inflicted wounds that are easy to heal - especially within the NYPD, but that's another OT debate.

I wish I could remember where I read it - it's been years, but in the 00s there were comments in newspapers about how too much responsibility was being put on police for them to do their job effectively and correctly. IIRC, part of it was related to terrorism law and social services duties like mentally disturbed persons. Leaving out the systemic racism in policing from the beginning, here we are.

That's why I haven't understood two things about NYPD:

1) 35,000 sworn officers and they can't find at least 2800 to be in station on platforms to rapid respond if something happens (ie not need to hold at station and wait for at least two cops to come into the paid fare area)

2) Why NYC needs 35,000 when City of LA has half NYC's population and only 1/4 of the cops (without CHP and LA Sheriff supplementing on patrols)

As much as people kvetch here about bloated inefficiency of (MTA) staff, no one seems to ask why NYPD is so big but ineffective in it's overall responsibility, and in this narrow one for the Transit Division.

I’ve made late night/ overnight trips in the mid eighties on the (2) . Transit police officer boarded at 241 St and rode the train to Times Square. Next officer would board there and ride the train to the terminal station at New Lots or , later on , Flatbush. I recall an incident after the merger with the NYPD when some officers rushed up the stairs at Van Siclen with their weapons drawn looking for some perp. After scaring the people getting off the train a radio clarification identified the proper location as Van Siclen on the (J) which is about a mile away although it’s the same 75th Pct. I knew people on all three forces, NYPD, Housing, and the Transit Bureau, and not one really supported the merger. It’s my personal opinion that there are still enough people available to patrol the system if they are properly deployed. Heck I come from the era when we had a Vandals Squad deployed in the layup area between Morris Park and Pelham Parkway besides the officers assigned to the train. I think the failure is solely on the City and the NYPD. My take. YMMV. Carry on.

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1 hour ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I’ve made late night/ overnight trips in the mid eighties on the (2) . Transit police officer boarded at 241 St and rode the train to Times Square. Next officer would board there and ride the train to the terminal station at New Lots or , later on , Flatbush. I recall an incident after the merger with the NYPD when some officers rushed up the stairs at Van Siclen with their weapons drawn looking for some perp. After scaring the people getting off the train a radio clarification identified the proper location as Van Siclen on the (J) which is about a mile away although it’s the same 75th Pct. I knew people on all three forces, NYPD, Housing, and the Transit Bureau, and not one really supported the merger. It’s my personal opinion that there are still enough people available to patrol the system if they are properly deployed. Heck I come from the era when we had a Vandals Squad deployed in the layup area between Morris Park and Pelham Parkway besides the officers assigned to the train. I think the failure is solely on the City and the NYPD. My take. YMMV. Carry on.

The part of my OP when I said that the morale and other feelings are "self-inflicted"? You just explained it.

Cops have job duties and often enough they're not doing them or doing them wrong. That was made plain to me when the video of that officer in South Carolina chose to shoot an already-arrested man with mental issues for running away instead of tasing or chasing him.

Add to it that with NYPD Transit Bureau they're not policing the transit system except to catch farejumpers in the hood, AND that pre-Rona I could see unis with Anti-Terror unit STSing by the 2 Broadway side faregates of Bowling Green during Rush Hour,  congregating all over GC-42nd St by the fare gates but not at any other station on the lower Lex - save USQ and Fulton St,  again by the fare gates, that perception of the subway being unsafe can easily be changed. NYPD Transit has the bodies.

Those bodies are just uninterested in doing more than minimal job duties or even doing them in a way that doesn't get people killed.

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2 hours ago, Deucey said:

The part of my OP when I said that the morale and other feelings are "self-inflicted"? You just explained it.

Cops have job duties and often enough they're not doing them or doing them wrong. That was made plain to me when the video of that officer in South Carolina chose to shoot an already-arrested man with mental issues for running away instead of tasing or chasing him.

Add to it that with NYPD Transit Bureau they're not policing the transit system except to catch farejumpers in the hood, AND that pre-Rona I could see unis with Anti-Terror unit STSing by the 2 Broadway side faregates of Bowling Green during Rush Hour,  congregating all over GC-42nd St by the fare gates but not at any other station on the lower Lex - save USQ and Fulton St,  again by the fare gates, that perception of the subway being unsafe can easily be changed. NYPD Transit has the bodies.

Those bodies are just uninterested in doing more than minimal job duties or even doing them in a way that doesn't get people killed.

And why would they be interested in doing anything with the "woke" anti-police movement in this City? The Manhattan DA has made it clear that he will no longer prosecute anyone farebeating, but the reality is, most of the people causing problems in the system DON'T pay, so that's a wonderful message to send to the people that start problems and don't pay. "Don't worry, you can farebeat, and keep coming back. Nothing will happen". 

You can't send mixed messages, which is what we have now in our City when it comes to policing. People want the cops "to do their job", then crucify them when they don't do it exactly the way we think it should be done, then change laws to NOT prosecute certain non-violent crimes so that when the cops "do their job", the perps walk and are out again doing the same things people are complaining about, and then wonder why the system is a mess. LOL

Either you want cops to get tough on crime or you don't and if you do, then you don't support elected officials and DAs who think it's ok to no longer prosecute certain crimes, leading to a revolving door.

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1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

And why would they be interested in doing anything with the "woke" anti-police movement in this City?

To not do so is dereliction of duty - which is grounds for dismissal. DeBlasio reminded them of that that one year they decided to barely work after turning their backs to him at a funeral for a slain officer.

And their wounded pride is a self-inflicted thing - as it is with all police in the US. It wasn't protesters confiscating bikes and hitting NYPD with batons as they were kettled and leaving Manhattan - it was NYPD.

Damn sure wasn't protesters hitting cops with cars at Barclay's; that was NYPD.

Definitely wasn't a protester who shoved a cop for filming at a protest in Brooklyn; that was NYPD.

So if they're unwilling to do their jobs because people don't like them, and are unwilling to change how they do their jobs when their misdeeds are seen on international television and their bosses - the people they police - say "Don't do that", then they need not continue collecting paychecks from us.

Military personnel get that, as do employees at private firms.

So expecting people who are entrusted with the State's power to police to not only do their job ethically and effectively, but to be the example to the public isn't a far-fetched idea; to expect bus drivers and bureaucrats to do so but not the people with the ability to kill in the name of keeping the peace is.

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11 minutes ago, Deucey said:

To not do so is dereliction of duty - which is grounds for dismissal. DeBlasio reminded them of that that one year they decided to barely work after turning their backs to him at a funeral for a slain officer.

And their wounded pride is a self-inflicted thing - as it is with all police in the US. It wasn't protesters confiscating bikes and hitting NYPD with batons as they were kettled and leaving Manhattan - it was NYPD.

Damn sure wasn't protesters hitting cops with cars at Barclay's; that was NYPD.

Definitely wasn't a protester who shoved a cop for filming at a protest in Brooklyn; that was NYPD.

So if they're unwilling to do their jobs because people don't like them, and are unwilling to change how they do their jobs when their misdeeds are seen on international television and their bosses - the people they police - say "Don't do that", then they need not continue collecting paychecks from us.

Military personnel get that, as do employees at private firms.

So expecting people who are entrusted with the State's power to police to not only do their job ethically and effectively, but to be the example to the public isn't a far-fetched idea; to expect bus drivers and bureaucrats to do so but not the people with the ability to kill in the name of keeping the peace is.

Police brutality is a totally separate issue, and yes, is totally unacceptable, but I'm not talking about that because we are really talking about enforcement. Let's assume that cops ARE doing their jobs, patrolling and arresting people creating problems to the extent possible. Cops are only as effective as the laws on the books, so when cops arrest people and the DA REFUSES to take action, and that person is released again and back on the street, that makes the cops look ineffective, even the best ones, because the reality is not all cops are animals. Many are out here doing the right thing. No one is talking about perps with rap sheets several pages long, who keep getting arrested and released, through no fault of the NYPD.

On that end, it makes the cops' efforts futile, and so that's another way that make cops feel demoralized. 

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I'm not getting too riled up over this.... This fear mongering bit isn't much more than calculated, passive aggressive shot at DeBozo number 5739274874289.... This egotistical narcissist isn't exactly pro-transit anyway (yes, even given whatever adjective you want to classify his LGA AIRTrain project as being), so this idea that he's so concerned about the safety of the subway, I refuse to put stock in....

Sound, sane, sympathetic minds want to believe that there is a real concern being conveyed by Cuomo, but unfortunately it is anything but....

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Posted (edited)

If he’s so concerned, then he should take some kind of action to work with the City and the NYPD to get crime and harassment of riders down on the subway. It doesn’t have to just be the City doing all the work. We keep hearing about having mental health experts be present when trying to stop mentally ill people from committing crimes or harassment. Well, why can’t the state put funding that? 

As for fare evasion, I personally think it should be a summons and/or a fine for fare evasion. It should be on the same level as parking or traffic violations. Throwing them in jail solely for not paying is not the answer. Maybe install cameras at turnstiles that click and flash if someone jumps over them or goes through the emergency gates. And install better locks on those gates so they stay shut once they close.

And lastly, the City needs step up their game in the Transit Division. If there are to be more police, then they need to be dispersed throughout the system and on the trains, not concentrated in big clusters in a select few areas. Including plainclothes officers. If there’s going to be more officers, then many more of them should be in plainclothes. The mayor needs to step up his game in making easier to fire rogue cops who think their badges, batons, OC sprays and guns are an excuse to play sociopath racist high school bully. Training to be a police officer needs to be much longer than it is with more attention paid to cadets’ mental health and attitude. But he’s also got to have the backs of those who actually are doing their jobs. And cops need to be actually part of the community, not just there to police it. Weren’t cops and other City employees once required to live in the City? Maybe we should bring that back. 

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue

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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

I'm not getting too riled up over this.... This fear mongering bit isn't much more than calculated, passive aggressive shot at DeBozo number 5739274874289.... This egotistical narcissist isn't exactly pro-transit anyway (yes, even given whatever adjective you want to classify his LGA AIRTrain project as being), so this idea that he's so concerned about the safety of the subway, I refuse to put stock in....

Sound, sane, sympathetic minds want to believe that there is a real concern being conveyed by Cuomo, but unfortunately it is anything but....

Sarah Feinberg has been complaining about this for almost a year. Cuomo may very well be hating on de Blasio, but he is actually correct on this issue.

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So, Sarah Feinberg took a ride along with a reporter from channel 7 today. Based on the report, she got on a train at Bowling Green (across the street from MTA HQ).

As soon as the train pulled out of Bowling Green, there was a confrontation between two riders in the very train car she was on.

https://abc7ny.com/video/embed/?pid=10581769

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

1. If he’s so concerned, then he should take some kind of action to work with the City and the NYPD to get crime and harassment of riders down on the subway. It doesn’t have to just be the City doing all the work. We keep hearing about having mental health experts be present when trying to stop mentally ill people from committing crimes or harassment. Well, why can’t the state put funding that? 

2. As for fare evasion, I personally think it should be a summons and/or a fine for fare evasion. It should be on the same level as parking or traffic violations. Throwing them in jail solely for not paying is not the answer. Maybe install cameras at turnstiles that click and flash if someone jumps over them or goes through the emergency gates. And install better locks on those gates so they stay shut once they close.

3. And lastly, the City needs step up their game in the Transit Division. If there are to be more police, then they need to be dispersed throughout the system and on the trains, not concentrated in big clusters in a select few areas. Including plainclothes officers. If there’s going to be more officers, then many more of them should be in plainclothes. The mayor needs to step up his game in making easier to fire rogue cops who think their badges, batons, OC sprays and guns are an excuse to play sociopath racist high school bully. Training to be a police officer needs to be much longer than it is with more attention paid to cadets’ mental health and attitude. But he’s also got to have the backs of those who actually are doing their jobs. And cops need to be actually part of the community, not just there to police it. Weren’t cops and other City employees once required to live in the City? Maybe we should bring that back. 

1. It seems like some people don't understand who is in charge of what. Mayor de Blasio handles the NYPD and is the one responsible for deploying more cops in the subway system when the (MTA) requests it. Cuomo is simply criticizing how the Mayor is handling the situation, and he's correct, even if he's doing it to take a stab at him for the hell of it.

2. The people creating the problems underground don't give a damn about a summons and won't pay them. In any case, farebeating is no longer prosecuted, so it's a moot point. A summons is pretty much what they get now, if that, and even that is frowned upon by the "woke" crowd, so at the end of the day, the cops are supposed to "do their job" and the people creating the problems... There should be no enforcement of anything. The very people not paying are usually the ones involved in the thefts and other more serious, violent behavior we're seeing on the subways that people here are complaining about. That was one of the points of the broken windows strategy... Address issues like farebeating, which lead to more violent crimes, but people didn't like that, so here we are. More cameras have been installed throughout the system. Again, the people creating the problems don't give a damn. One of the latest robberies in the subway system done in broad daylight was caught right on camera. If the perp. was concerned about cameras, he wouldn't have did what he did. Cameras help catch the perps after the fact. They don't necessarily deter them from committing crimes.

3. The plainclothes unit was disbanded because the "woke" people didn't care for that, so no more plainclothes unit. People need to better educate themselves about what changes have occurred and how they have negatively impacted the cops' ability to "do their jobs".

https://gothamist.com/news/nypd-disbands-plainclothes-anti-crime-units

Lastly, if you want NYPD officers to "live in NYC", I suppose you support them being paid more so that they can afford to do that? The starting salary for an NYPD police officer is $42,500. Rent, even in the worst areas of the City is so high that a cop cannot afford to live in NYC on that. 

Sounds like you're going on a rant without using factual information...

 

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Mayor de Blasio handles the NYPD and is the one responsible for deploying more cops in the subway system when the (MTA) requests it.

And when the mayor's been on record saying flat out he doesn't think there's a problem with the subway system and that everything's fine, it's pretty much an uphill battle at that point.

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5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 Sounds like you're going on a rant without using factual information...

 

I’ll just disagree with you on that.

And yes, I do support them being paid enough to live in the City if it can foster better relationships with the communities they’re supposed to serve. 

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25 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

I’ll just disagree with you on that.

And yes, I do support them being paid enough to live in the City if it can foster better relationships with the communities they’re supposed to serve. 

Well you are, given that you have stated some things that factually are no longer happening.

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3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Well you are, given that you have stated some things that factually are no longer happening.

Well I don't believe that I am. And perhaps some of these things can - and maybe should - start to happen again...like bringing back plainclothes officers in the subway. Or go back to having a separate transit police force; this time, the MTA Police (unlike the old Transit Police Department, which was a City department). And yes, put additional state funding towards additional MTA police officers, so it doesn’t blow up the (MTA)'s budget. If the Governor wants to gripe about how unsafe the system, then this is a potential fix for that. And it's definitely not without precedent. The MBTA, SEPTA and WMATA have their own police forces that patrol their subway and bus systems. It’s not left up to the Boston/Cambridge/Quincy, Philadelphia or DC Metropolitan Police departments to handle it. If they can do it in Boston, Philadelphia and DC, then NYC has no excuse. There is too much finger-pointing going on - especially between the Governor and the Mayor. But what is there to show for it? Take the subways and buses out of the Mayor’s and NYPD’s hands. If there really is a depletion in PD’s ranks, then how can we really expect them to patrol the subways and buses (yes, buses too!) effectively?

I’m just here to offer ideas to tackle crime and mentally ill people harassing riders. I don’t have the exact or perfect answer for what’s going to stop them and I don’t believe there is one. But I do know that what’s being done now clearly isn’t working. And that’s a fact. I took the (MTA)‘s surveys. Like most people who took them, crime was my biggest concern (with service reliability being a very close second). If the vagrants are the source of much of the crime/harassment, then they are who need to be dealt with. I stated so in the surveys. But putting them in jail for a while isn’t going to fix their problems. Another fact - jail has become the largest place to house the mentally ill. That’s a sign of the state’s/city’s failure to handle homeless/mentally ill. That’s a big issue that needs reform. I don’t know exactly what’s the right answer for it, but throwing them in jail for a while definitely ain’t it. Because corrections officers are paid to keep order in the jails. They aren’t paid - or fully trained, if trained at all - to deal with mental illness. We shouldn’t expect them to be. 

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue

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5 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Well I don't believe that I am. And perhaps some of these things can - and maybe should - start to happen again...like bringing back plainclothes officers in the subway. Or go back to having a separate transit police force; this time, the MTA Police (unlike the old Transit Police Department, which was a City department). And yes, put additional state funding towards additional MTA police officers, so it doesn’t blow up the (MTA)'s budget. If the Governor wants to gripe about how unsafe the system, then this is a potential fix for that. And it's definitely not without precedent. The MBTA, SEPTA and WMATA have their own police forces that patrol their subway and bus systems. It’s not left up to the Boston/Cambridge/Quincy, Philadelphia or DC Metropolitan Police departments to handle it. If they can do it in Boston, Philadelphia and DC, then NYC has no excuse. There is too much finger-pointing going on - especially between the Governor and the Mayor. But what is there to show for it? Take the subways and buses out of the Mayor’s and NYPD’s hands. If there really is a depletion in PD’s ranks, then how can we really expect them to patrol the subways and buses (yes, buses too!) effectively?

I’m just here to offer ideas to tackle crime and mentally ill people harassing riders. I don’t have the exact or perfect answer for what’s going to stop them and I don’t believe there is one. But I do know that what’s being done now clearly isn’t working. And that’s a fact. I took the (MTA)‘s surveys. Like most people who took them, crime was my biggest concern (with service reliability being a very close second). If the vagrants are the source of much of the crime/harassment, then they are who need to be dealt with. I stated so in the surveys. But putting them in jail for a while isn’t going to fix their problems. Another fact - jail has become the largest place to house the mentally ill. That’s a sign of the state’s/city’s failure to handle homeless/mentally ill. That’s a big issue that needs reform. I don’t know exactly what’s the right answer for it, but throwing them in jail for a while definitely ain’t it. Because corrections officers are paid to keep order in the jails. They aren’t paid - or fully trained, if trained at all - to deal with mental illness. We shouldn’t expect them to be. 

Yeah well quite a few people think the plainclothes officers should come back, but again, they didn't just go away just because. As I said, everything that relates to policing, people PROTEST and complain about in this City, which includes doing away with the plainclothes officers, so now there aren't any, and now people are complaining that the cops aren't doing enough, BUT this is what people asked for! It's a joke... If these people are so outraged about police brutality, ask that reforms be made to address the brutality, which CAN be done, but disbanding the plainclothes unit, and demanding that tons of resources be pulled away from the NYPD isn't going to work when you make changes to no longer have certain crimes prosecuted.

People didn't want Stop & Frisk, so it went away. Fine, but if you're not going to have Stop & Frisk, then you need MORE cops patrolling because if you don't have enough boots on the ground as a presence, AND no plainclothes cops AND changes to not prosecuting certain crimes, you get what we have now... A City that is out of control. The City also has poured MILLIONS into addressing mental illness, but the programs have FAILED and are not effective, not to mention the MILLIONS lost from Thrive. At the end of the day, it all comes back to de Blasio and his ineffectiveness as the Mayor of this City. 

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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