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Governor Fear-Mongers about the Subway


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9 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Photo is apparently from yesterday...  Broad daylight around 4pm...Yet de Blasio says all is well in the subways...

183320276_10160826872189128_676995973065

What in the absolute hell...

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The hits just keep on coming...

No ‘real New Yorker’ fears NYC subway, says Mayor de Blasio after bloody attack on MTA worker and train-delaying mayhem

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This attack on an (MTA) worker that almost left them blind is just one of several attacks yesterday in the subway system alone, but de Blasio INSISTS that the (MTA) isn't just fear-mongering, but that they are "lying" about crime issues in the subway. Smh

Source: https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-subway-stabbing-slash-overnight-20210506-ns4jasm4rzcbxjoipnssufjvju-story.html

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Posted (edited)
On 5/6/2021 at 1:50 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Photo is apparently from yesterday...  Broad daylight around 4pm...Yet de Blasio says all is well in the subways...

183320276_10160826872189128_676995973065

JFC

30 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

The express bus period is looking real good right now.

I have the BxM3 and 4 within walking distance, the BxM1 a short local bus ride away (8 minutes with no traffic), and all three MNR mainline services near me. I don't need the (1)(4)(A) or (D) for nothin'.

edit: actually I kinda wish the BxM2 stopped in Inwood so I can get to the west side, or if the BxM2 had a west side transfer on 98th and 5th or something. Otherwise, I'm pretty much set

Edited by paulrivera
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I'm not condoning the string of incidents that have been going on in the subway, or the inaction by NYPD and deBozo, but even so I think it's a little disingenuous to compare it to the bad old days of 35-45 years ago.

The current events pale in comparison to what was regularly going on between the late '60s and early '90s.  Ready any account from back then and you'll know crime was so out of control that the Transit Authority at times wasn't even able to keep track of the rates, let alone prevent crime.

The one thing I will concede is I've almost never ridden the subway between 12-5 AM, but that was drilled into my head as a kid for damn good reason.  Same reason you won't find me navigating through the brigade of skells on East 28th Street at 2:15 AM on a Saturday; it's called common freaking sense...

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, paulrivera said:

JFC

I have the BxM3 and 4 within walking distance, the BxM1 a short local bus ride away (8 minutes with no traffic), and all three MNR mainline services near me. I don't need the (1)(4)(A) or (D) for nothin'.

edit: actually I kinda wish the BxM2 stopped in Inwood so I can get to the west side, or if the BxM2 had a west side transfer on 98th and 5th or something. Otherwise, I'm pretty much set

No way in hell that's happening... Inwood has the subway for the West Side. No need for the BxM2 to stop there. Bad enough having the BxM1s stop there. We take the BxM2 to avoid those via Inwood bus.

20 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

I'm not condoning the string of incidents that have been going on in the subway, or the inaction by NYPD and deBozo, but even so I think it's a little disingenuous to compare it to the bad old days of 35-45 years ago.

The current events pale in comparison to what was regularly going on between the late '60s and early '90s.  Ready any account from back then and you'll know crime was so out of control that the Transit Authority at times wasn't even able to keep track of the rates, let alone prevent crime.

The one thing I will concede is I've almost never ridden the subway between 12-5 AM, but that was drilled into my head as a kid for damn good reason.  Same reason you won't find me navigating through the brigade of skells on East 28th Street at 2:15 AM on a Saturday; it's called common freaking sense...

The people that say it's not that bad... I'd like to know how often you are using the subway? A lot of what is going on now is happening in broad daylight, not overnight, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. The chick that was recently mugged... That was Sunday in the afternoon... I think a lot of the people saying it's not as bad as the old days are driving, so of course they'd say that. I have not used the subway in months having seen the conditions worsen every time I would take it prior to COVID, with the increase in homeless, mentally ill, people smoking on the train, shooting up on the platform... Pissing on the mezzanine levels... I've seen plenty and that was before COVID, including passengers almost shoved off the platform in the middle of rush hour by mental cases walking around. No way would I subject myself to what's going on now. The times I did use the subway during this pandemic, I was particularly turned off by how many maskless people were walking around on the platforms and taking the trains. They can have it. 

What really pushed me out of the subway quite frankly was how unreliable the service became, even though the other issues were problems too that left me feeling as if the system was in decline with the filthy trains and homeless taking over almost entire trains on some trips. Once I decided to stop using the subway for certain trips, one night, one of the stations I used, someone was shot during the heart of rush hour. Luckily I decided to go another way by car, otherwise, I may have been caught up in that. Like I said, more nonsense like this happening during normal hours.

I think the subway was fine in the mid 90s. I rode as a teenager then to and from the City to hang out with friends. We would even ride back to Brooklyn late nights after concerts and felt totally safe. Now, I wouldn't have my worst enemy use the subway. There are just too many homeless and mentally ill about. You always had some homeless on the subway, but now, it is just out of control. 

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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Posted (edited)

I been taking the subway regularly for 20-25 years.  That ain't changing anytime soon. 

And with all due respect, since when do you of all people care about what happens on the subway?  Since time immemorial you've gone out of your way to remind the rest of us that you take the express bus and Metro-North because of your disdain for the subway. 🙃

You know, I could sit here and complain about all the yuppie snobs I've encountered in the 5-6 times in my life I've ridden the BxM18, but I don't because I almost never ride the express bus.  I'm not in the habit of criticizing services I don't even use, so it always perplexes me when others do just that.  If you have no stake in the outcome one way or the other, then why bother?

Not saying people should never talk about things outside of their regular routine, just trying to figure out what your agenda is here..

Edited by R10 2952
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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

I been taking the subway regularly for 20-25 years.  That ain't changing anytime soon. 

And with all due respect, since when do you of all people care about what happens on the subway?  Since time immemorial you've gone out of your way to remind the rest of us that you take the express bus and Metro-North because of your disdain for the subway. 🙃

You know, I could sit here and complain about all the yuppie snobs I've encountered in the 5-6 times in my life I've ridden the BxM18, but I don't because I almost never ride the express bus.  I'm not in the habit of criticizing services I don't even use, so it always perplexes me when others do just that.  If you have no stake in the outcome one way or the other, then why bother?

Not saying people should never talk about things outside of their regular routine, just trying to figure out what your agenda is here..

That's comical. Unlike you, I use just about everything transit wise... I've been using the subway since I was teenager for a good 20 years now. I know the system quite well, so I've earned the right to not use the subway if I so choose. I've rode just about every line in the system, and not for fanning purposes either. Even when I started working professionally and switched to the express bus, my morning commute consisted of taking the X16 to.... the subway every morning to finish my commute, so don't come at me like I'm this sheltered guy that hasn't used the subway in years. lol. I switched to a Midtown office a few years later, but still took the subway here and there. I would say even with my daily commute consisting of the express bus or Metro-North, pre-pandemic, I still used the subway at least 3-4 times a week, just to get around primarily in Manhattan. I have a lot of meetings for work and sometimes opt to skip the Uber and hop on the subway like most New Yorkers. My preference is just not to use it, but that's a different story. I have no agenda... At the end of the day, I have a pretty damn good idea of what goes on in the subway system.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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Before the pandemic hit I used to use the subways just about everyday and any time of day. I can’t speak for everyone of course but I really had no problems with people other than having homeless people ask for change all the time. Maybe I ended up being lucky because I was riding the subways even at 2 and 3 in the morning and I never ran into problems. I don’t like when people make it seem like the subways are like they were back in the 1970s/1980s when homicides, rape, and etc were at all time highs. Crime is still low in comparison to even back in the 1990s. However I do recognize that we also have a lot of mentally ill in the subway, many of which also happen to be homeless which definitely creates issues too, because some of these folks are drugged up, desperate or mentally unstable. However like I stated before that problem is one that has been neglected for years and it will only get worst being that the pandemic has caused a lot of financial hardship for many. You can throw police at the problem but it still doesn’t do anything to actually correct the problem. All that will happen is that the homeless will move elsewhere and when the NYPD inevitably becomes  more lax with the situation the homeless/mentally ill will move right back into the subway. As long as the city continues to ignore the growing homeless problem the more these incidents will occur. Of course not all homeless people are committing crimes but I wouldn’t be surprised if a good chunk are being they are in the situation they are in. 
 

I think another big contributor to the crime is the fact that 60-70% of the subway ridership is still absent so it makes it more likely for something to happen because there are less eyes watching in general. This was the same issue that occurred back in the 70s and 80s, because ridership was also low back so I gave trouble makers more incentive to act out. I think this issue will somewhat ease up when you have more people utilizing the subway, because the more eyes you have the less likely it is for someone to commit a crime.

I think there should be more cops in the subways in general especially at night when there are in generally less people out. What I’ve noticed from before the pandemic and even now is that you’ll see cops at several stations around the city in the day time but at night they are nowhere to be found. That’s the time when they should be riding the subways and on the station platforms. I can understand not having so many during the daytime because more people are around but to literally see no police at night when there are less people out is a problem. 

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21 hours ago, paulrivera said:

I have the BxM3 and 4 within walking distance, the BxM1 a short local bus ride away (8 minutes with no traffic), and all three MNR mainline services near me. I don't need the (1)(4)(A) or (D) for nothin'.

edit: actually I kinda wish the BxM2 stopped in Inwood so I can get to the west side, or if the BxM2 had a west side transfer on 98th and 5th or something. Otherwise, I'm pretty much set

I'm either a B35 or a B46 ride away from the BM's (1-4).... When I used to take the express to work when I worked in the W. Village, I never actually took the B35 to "checkpoint" (the Church/Ocean Pkwy stop, just before it turns off for the Prospect Expwy.) in the mornings.... Much better chance at getting a seat taking the B46 to either Av. H (BM2) or Flatlands (BM1)... I've historically always favored taking the (2)/(5) over the (3)/(4), but the IRT in general I tend to shirk, compared to taking the (B)/(Q) - even though I'm closer to the (2)/(5).....

Definitely noticed an influx of homeless ppl. on the (2) (even more than during pre-covid times, which is telling).... I haven't had any problems taking the (Q) though (yet anyway)....

So I'm saying all of this to say (even if I didn't have my own car), I'm personally not at the point where I'm completely considering avoiding the subway for the express bus.... Matter of fact, I haven't recently embarked upon an express bus at all (no real reason to - although I do want to get around to riding more of those SIM routes sometime before year's end)... But for those who feel the need to (avoid the subway), in light of how things have gotten, well I can't really say I blame them..... I'm not in it to say whether someone's embellishing or over-exaggerating claims when it comes to the subway....

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I took the (E) on Friday and saw some MTA Police on patrol at 51st/Lex. I hadn't seen them in the subways since before the pandemic. Not sure if this was a one-off extra patrol in response to crime or not. 

Speaking of, with afternoon traffic on Queens Blvd back to pre-pandemic levels, the subway is back to being faster than QM1, etc, but unless it's off-peak, i stick to the express bus so I can get a seat and close my eyes. Even then, I often wait for the second train because the first one is pretty damn full. 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I took the (E) on Friday and saw some MTA Police on patrol at 51st/Lex. I hadn't seen them in the subways since before the pandemic. Not sure if this was a one-off extra patrol in response to crime or not. 

Speaking of, with afternoon traffic on Queens Blvd back to pre-pandemic levels, the subway is back to being faster than QM1, etc, but unless it's off-peak, i stick to the express bus so I can get a seat and close my eyes. Even then, I often wait for the second train because the first one is pretty damn full. 

 

I took the (7) today from Bryant Park to Hudson Yards. I scanned the car before getting on for any homeless. I was shocked not to see any, but I still won't be taking the subways with any regularity. Figured after I got off of the express bus I could save $25.00 and take the subway for once. lol Definitely took an Uber going back to the express bus though. Apparently about 30 minutes or so after I got off at 42nd off of the express bus is when that shooting in Times Square took place. Unreal.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

This is why they need to have more police presence during those hours, but the police are literally nowhere to be found. But then again wasn’t NYC one of those places that wanted to defund the police?  

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Mindless sensationalism without context- watch a documentary about what was going on in the '70s and '80s, read the actual statistics and you'll see there's still less crime going on today compared to before 1990.

@MHV9218 At this rate, you're going to have to change the title of this thread to "VG8 Fear-Mongers about the Subway".

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16 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

Mindless sensationalism without context- watch a documentary about what was going on in the '70s and '80s, read the actual statistics and you'll see there's still less crime going on today compared to before 1990.

@MHV9218 At this rate, you're going to have to change the title of this thread to "VG8 Fear-Mongers about the Subway".

I'm not fear mongering at all... The latest data seems to confirm what riders are saying, which is crime is up in the subways. The difference now is we have a lot more mentally ill people in the system, so it's really a mentally ill crisis versus the '70s and '80s. That was just today, let alone two days ago... 

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/nyc-subway-safety-concerns-continue-following-string-of-violent-morning-attacks/3051559/

There is something going on now almost every day, like the guy that stabbed a person randomly with a screwdriver. What is troubling is that most of the attacks seem to be unprovoked, so it's not about a robbery or anything.

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1 hour ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

This is why they need to have more police presence during those hours, but the police are literally nowhere to be found. But then again wasn’t NYC one of those places that wanted to defund the police?  

Wanted to? They did, hence no more plain clothes unit... What happened to the social workers that de Blasio said would be deployed? <_< 

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On 5/8/2021 at 6:37 PM, QM1to6Ave said:

I took the (E) on Friday and saw some MTA Police on patrol at 51st/Lex. I hadn't seen them in the subways since before the pandemic. Not sure if this was a one-off extra patrol in response to crime or not. 

Speaking of, with afternoon traffic on Queens Blvd back to pre-pandemic levels, the subway is back to being faster than QM1, etc, but unless it's off-peak, i stick to the express bus so I can get a seat and close my eyes. Even then, I often wait for the second train because the first one is pretty damn full

 

I've seen them more in the trains than on the platform. I've seen them most at Penn Station, Times Square, West 4th and World Trade Center and hardly anywhere else. They're at Sutphin every now and then, but I hardly ever see them at any station between Sutphin and Court Square with the exception of Briarwood, since the police station is on the mezzanine level.

I've had to pass up (E)s as well, but when I have my bike, I take the LIRR.

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2 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Mindless sensationalism without context- watch a documentary about what was going on in the '70s and '80s, read the actual statistics and you'll see there's still less crime going on today compared to before 1990.

@MHV9218 At this rate, you're going to have to change the title of this thread to "VG8 Fear-Mongers about the Subway".

The NYC Subway in the 1970s and 1980s should not be used as a benchmark to say "Things are not bad". That's like saying because less people die of TB or Cholera now than in 1900 we shouldn't take public health seriously. 

Another thing to consider is that the NYC subway was a perfectly clean, respectable means of mass transit from it's inception to about 1970 when the wheels came off. What people like VG8 are saying is that the conditions of the 70s and 80s didn't happen overnight. It was a year by year increase in disorder and violence thru the 1950s and 1960s that culminated in the "The Warriors" style system that it became by 75' or so. If we don't get a handle on things now, we can't be smugly assured things won't slide back down. Even during Guiliani I remember the windows being unusable due to scratchiti. It took the TA a long time and a lot of work to get the system back to what it has been during the late 90s thru mid 2010s. 

 

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2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Wanted to? They did, hence no more plain clothes unit... What happened to the social workers that de Blasio said would be deployed? <_< 

In all fairness, I can't tell you how many times I've seen 4-5 cops chatting away or on their phones in a big group in a mezzanine somewhere while the trains and platforms are easy pickings. There does need to be a serious discussion about professionalism when it comes to patrolling. 

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3 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

This is why they need to have more police presence during those hours, but the police are literally nowhere to be found. But then again wasn’t NYC one of those places that wanted to defund the police?  

Why pay them when they’re not doing their job?

If the beat is the subway, and there are whole substations in the subway for the transit bureau set up to patrol the subway beat, yet you rarely see them in the subway, do they need:

a) the same funding

b) more funding

c) less funding since them not doing the job is wasting our money on unnecessary overtime and less “safety”, or

d) replacement by officers who have the ethic of walking their assigned beat at all times instead of those occasions when shit happens and UWS monied interests complain and get PIX 11 and the Post to cover and sensationalize their failures?

 

It'll be interesting to see how you rationalize dereliction of duty as a justifiable thing here.

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13 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Why pay them when they’re not doing their job?

If the beat is the subway, and there are whole substations in the subway for the transit bureau set up to patrol the subway beat, yet you rarely see them in the subway, do they need:

a) the same funding

b) more funding

c) less funding since them not doing the job is wasting our money on unnecessary overtime and less “safety”, or

d) replacement by officers who have the ethic of walking their assigned beat at all times instead of those occasions when shit happens and UWS monied interests complain and get PIX 11 and the Post to cover and sensationalize their failures?

 

It'll be interesting to see how you rationalize dereliction of duty as a justifiable thing here.

Funny.... People forget when the Upper West Side was a slum. It's basically new money... The homeless shelters and SROs were always there. Now there are just more homeless shelters, which is the problem. The issue isn't the cops... The issue is bail reform releasing these people after the cops catch them.

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5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'm not fear mongering at all... The latest data seems to confirm what riders are saying, which is crime is up in the subways. The difference now is we have a lot more mentally ill people in the system, so it's really a mentally ill crisis versus the '70s and '80s. That was just today, let alone two days ago... 

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/nyc-subway-safety-concerns-continue-following-string-of-violent-morning-attacks/3051559/

There is something going on now almost every day, like the guy that stabbed a person randomly with a screwdriver. What is troubling is that most of the attacks seem to be unprovoked, so it's not about a robbery or anything.

Show me actual statistics that demonstrate crime in the subway is as high now as it was in, say 1985 or 1990, and I'll believe you.  Otherwise, posting a string of sensationalist local news stories doesn't really count for much of anything.

3 hours ago, shiznit1987 said:

The NYC Subway in the 1970s and 1980s should not be used as a benchmark to say "Things are not bad". That's like saying because less people die of TB or Cholera now than in 1900 we shouldn't take public health seriously. 

Another thing to consider is that the NYC subway was a perfectly clean, respectable means of mass transit from it's inception to about 1970 when the wheels came off. What people like VG8 are saying is that the conditions of the 70s and 80s didn't happen overnight. It was a year by year increase in disorder and violence thru the 1950s and 1960s that culminated in the "The Warriors" style system that it became by 75' or so. If we don't get a handle on things now, we can't be smugly assured things won't slide back down. Even during Guiliani I remember the windows being unusable due to scratchiti. It took the TA a long time and a lot of work to get the system back to what it has been during the late 90s thru mid 2010s. 

Of course it should be used as a benchmark; you expect people to just block that entire 25-year period out of their collective memories and act like the sky is falling everytime somebody gets stabbed on a train in a city of 9 million people? I'm no fan of deBlasio and the NYPD's incompetence, but the media spreading panic is not exactly helping things, either.

Edited by R10 2952
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