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Service to Penn Station via East Bronx


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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

This project is about six years behind schedule... 

East Side Access is kind of the prerequisite, and that had an original projected opening date of 2009.

Edited by bobtehpanda
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9 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

East Side Access is kind of the prerequisite, and that had an original projected opening date of 2009.

I know but I'm specifically talking about the Metro-North part. It had been announced for completion years ago, then sat.

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Just now, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I know but I'm specifically talking about the Metro-North part. It had been announced for completion years ago, then sat.

Well yeah. The trains from the East Bronx run to Penn Station, which doesn't currently have room until the new terminal under Grand Central is available.

It doesn't really make sense to start construction for a project if you can't run the trains by the time you're done.

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13 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Well yeah. The trains from the East Bronx run to Penn Station, which doesn't currently have room until the new terminal under Grand Central is available.

It doesn't really make sense to start construction for a project if you can't run the trains by the time you're done.

Please. They could've completed the EIS statements and anything else so that they'd be ready to go to build the stations. I get sick of hearing the excuses when it comes to the outer boroughs. Cuomo made a note about how the project is SOOOO expensive and this and that. Just get the thing done. If this were Manhattan, the cost wouldn't be of concern.

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6 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Please. They could've completed the EIS statements and anything else so that they'd be ready to go to build the stations. I get sick of hearing the excuses when it comes to the outer boroughs. Cuomo made a note about how the project is SOOOO expensive and this and that. Just get the thing done. If this were Manhattan, the cost wouldn't be of concern.

Literally a year ago the entire capital plan was on the chopping block, including the Second Avenue Subway's second phase. This isn't some preferential treatment thing.

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2 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

Penn Station Access has been on the drawing board in one form or another for at least 20 years. We all know about it.

 

1 minute ago, bobtehpanda said:

Literally a year ago the entire capital plan was on the chopping block, including the Second Avenue Subway's second phase. This isn't some preferential treatment thing.

So I think this is what OP is actually trying to bring attention to: https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-resumption-metro-north-penn-station-access-project

Quote

May 13, 2021 | Albany, NY - Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today announced the resumption of the Metro-North Penn Station Access Project, which had been paused by the COVID-19 pandemic and MTA funding uncertainty. The reopened process will select a firm to design and build four new Metro-North Railroad stations and make track upgrades in the Bronx. The MTA had identified three consortia qualified to bid for the project in February 2020, three weeks before COVID-19's arrival in New York raised questions about funding the historic 2020-2024 capital program. Devastating financial losses and uncertainty related to the pandemic led the MTA to pause the capital program and procurement process.

The Governor also announced that the federal government has given the MTA approval to publish the draft Environmental Assessment for public comment. 

 

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5 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Literally a year ago the entire capital plan was on the chopping block, including the Second Avenue Subway's second phase. This isn't some preferential treatment thing.

Uh huh. As I said, Cuomo had no need to bring up the cost of the project as he did recently, as if this was Manhattan, there would've been no mention of "how expensive" it is.

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So why are these Penn Station slots going en masse to MNRR over NJT or even Amtrak?

I get not every person in Connecticut or Dutchess County works on the East Side, but imagine the congestion relief on the West Side if NJT had more slots for frequent service at Penn - especially if ARC’s successor is built.

So why is the LIRR capacity going to MNRR?

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25 minutes ago, Deucey said:

So why are these Penn Station slots going en masse to MNRR over NJT or even Amtrak?

I get not every person in Connecticut or Dutchess County works on the East Side, but imagine the congestion relief on the West Side if NJT had more slots for frequent service at Penn - especially if ARC’s successor is built.

So why is the LIRR capacity going to MNRR?

The way how it works is the trains that are freed up from Penn Station will now go to GCT, and the freed up space in Penn Station will be replaced by MNRR, which in turn will allow Amtrak to discontinue some of it's NEC trains into Penn Station to allow MNRR to operate.

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55 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

The way how it works is the trains that are freed up from Penn Station will now go to GCT, and the freed up space in Penn Station will be replaced by MNRR, which in turn will allow Amtrak to discontinue some of it's NEC trains into Penn Station to allow MNRR to operate.

Yes, but my question was:

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

So why are these Penn Station slots going en masse to MNRR over NJT or even Amtrak?

 

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5 hours ago, Deucey said:

So why are these Penn Station slots going en masse to MNRR over NJT or even Amtrak?

I get not every person in Connecticut or Dutchess County works on the East Side, but imagine the congestion relief on the West Side if NJT had more slots for frequent service at Penn - especially if ARC’s successor is built.

So why is the LIRR capacity going to MNRR?

I honestly doubt there are any suitable places to turn trains before reaching Stamford, which is well past New York State.

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Personally, I'm interested in how Phase Two of Penn Station Access will pan out.  Unless they restore the second track on the drawbridge, move Spuyten Duyvil Station north of the junction, and throw in an extra stop on the West Side Line around 96th or 168th Street, I can't imagine the frequency or ridership will be too good.

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1 hour ago, Lex said:

I honestly doubt there are any suitable places to turn trains before reaching Stamford, which is well past New York State.

But that doesn’t answer my question:

6 hours ago, Deucey said:

So why are these Penn Station slots going en masse to MNRR over NJT or even Amtrak?

Maybe I should’ve said “…MNRR instead of NJT or even Amtrak?”

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11 hours ago, Deucey said:

So why are these Penn Station slots going en masse to MNRR over NJT or even Amtrak?

I get not every person in Connecticut or Dutchess County works on the East Side, but imagine the congestion relief on the West Side if NJT had more slots for frequent service at Penn - especially if ARC’s successor is built.

So why is the LIRR capacity going to MNRR?

The Gateway tunnels need to exist before NJT or Amtrak can send a single train from the west.

There are two tracks under the Hudson and four under the East River. Soon there will be six; LIRR gets two and so Metro-North gets (some of) the slots freed up. (The exact operating plans of ESA, PSA, and Amtrak have not been publicized.)

Gateway could use that room, but the difference is that ESA is, hopefully, actually almost done this time, whereas Gateway doesn't have a shovel in the ground to speak of. 

Plus, the Gateway Program also includes building Penn South, so it's not like NJT and Amtrak are getting nothing.

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17 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Personally, I'm interested in how Phase Two of Penn Station Access will pan out.  Unless they restore the second track on the drawbridge, move Spuyten Duyvil Station north of the junction, and throw in an extra stop on the West Side Line around 96th or 168th Street, I can't imagine the frequency or ridership will be too good.

Years ago one Saturday morning, I was at the Spuyten Duyvil station taking the train in. Overheard my Assemblyman speaking with a guy who was clesrly knowledgeable about the situation discussing possible plans. The Spuyten Duyvil station would remain as is, and the idea thrown around then was that people would be shuttled to the Riverdale station for West Side access. As it stands now, the only discussions about improvements at the Spuyten Duyvil station is ADA accessibility. Shuttling people to the recently renovated Riverdale station is not the worst idea. For the most part a lot of us in Riverdale use both stations, unless they are right by the Spuyten Duyvil station.

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18 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Personally, I'm interested in how Phase Two of Penn Station Access will pan out.  Unless they restore the second track on the drawbridge, move Spuyten Duyvil Station north of the junction, and throw in an extra stop on the West Side Line around 96th or 168th Street, I can't imagine the frequency or ridership will be too good.

I think putting back the second track on the drawbridge would be key to running any kind of convenient Metro-North Hudson Line service to Penn Station. A couple stops on the West Side would be a major draw both for suburban commuters whose destination is not Midtown, such as Columbia-Presbyterian Hospital workers, and for West Siders who want an alternative to the overcrowded (1)(2)(3) trains. Though it might be quite the challenge to build a station in close proximity to Presbyterian given that the tracks are just above water level and the hospital facilities are on a very high bluff overlooking the Hudson.

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48 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

I think putting back the second track on the drawbridge would be key to running any kind of convenient Metro-North Hudson Line service to Penn Station. A couple stops on the West Side would be a major draw both for suburban commuters whose destination is not Midtown, such as Columbia-Presbyterian Hospital workers, and for West Siders who want an alternative to the overcrowded (1)(2)(3) trains. Though it might be quite the challenge to build a station in close proximity to Presbyterian given that the tracks are just above water level and the hospital facilities are on a very high bluff overlooking the Hudson.

I thought the original plan had two stops? One by 125th and another near 60th St or something?

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1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I thought the original plan had two stops? One by 125th and another near 60th St or something?

Sounds about right. If I remember correctly it is supposed to be 125 St and 62 St. There is a map with proposals on the Metro North Wikipedia page.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/19/2021 at 2:28 PM, Deucey said:

So why are these Penn Station slots going en masse to MNRR over NJT or even Amtrak?

I get not every person in Connecticut or Dutchess County works on the East Side, but imagine the congestion relief on the West Side if NJT had more slots for frequent service at Penn - especially if ARC’s successor is built.

So why is the LIRR capacity going to MNRR?

Why should NJT have anymore of a precedence over the MNRR if NJ/NJT has a slew of buses clogging up the Lincoln Tunnel during the rush hour, along with the RR service they already have transporting them to/from the west side... If the LIRR is set to get direct east side access, then I see no issue with MNRR getting direct west side access, when currently neither of those RR services has access to those respective aforementioned sides of Manhattan....

You mention imagining NJT's congestion relief if they had more slots.... I tried - and I simply don't have the ardor you apparently have with that accomplishing much of it.... Increasing the amt. of platforms of bottlenecked trains coming in/leaving Penn is a band-aid solution at best..... NJT RR's problem isn't merely due to a lack of slots; which is what your question intimates towards...

On 5/19/2021 at 2:56 PM, Lawrence St said:

The way how it works is the trains that are freed up from Penn Station will now go to GCT, and the freed up space in Penn Station will be replaced by MNRR, which in turn will allow Amtrak to discontinue some of it's NEC trains into Penn Station to allow MNRR to operate.

Of the 5 "W's", you're answering a "what", when he's asking a "why"...

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I thought the original plan had two stops? One by 125th and another near 60th St or something?

It does, but I'm inclined to agree with him (T to Dyre).... While I'd keep that 62nd stop or whatever, I personally wouldn't bother with a 125th st stop on the west side; I'd have the thing stop somewhere between your Spuyten Duyvil & 125th.... 168th is simply a better draw than 125th (even being that 125th (1) is what it is, in terms of getting b/w street & platform level)...

Edited by B35 via Church
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

It does, but I'm inclined to agree with him (T to Dyre).... While I'd keep that 62nd stop or whatever, I personally wouldn't bother with a 125th st stop on the west side; I'd have the thing stop somewhere between your Spuyten Duyvil & 125th.... 168th is simply a better draw than 125th (even being that 125th (1) is what it is, in terms of getting b/w street & platform level)...

In theory, 168th makes sense (I would not dismiss the need of a W 125th station quite frankly - I'll explain why later). The challenge with a stop in the vicinity of 168th is where to place to station so that it is accessible. I actually have found myself spending more time up in the Hudson Heights area over the last few years, and while the views of the Hudson and Palisades are great, much of it is not accessible there or further south by New York-Presbyterian. That's a trip I take more and more by car. It's just across the Henry Hudson Bridge, so it's a 10-15 minute trip that is much much longer via public transit.


As far as W 125th St, as someone who frequents the Columbia University area, I definitely see the use for that stop. Usually when I go down there, I go by car because it's not easy to reach without a number of transfers. Demographically speaking, I would say you could perhaps get people that currently drive to perhaps hop on the train since it would be so quick. I'm thinking primarily of people that live in my area in Riverdale that work at Columbia University or go to school there. One thing I have learned living here... There are a ton of people that work in the medical field that live up here... Mount Sinai, New York-Presbyterian and the other major hospitals, and some of the hospitals mentioned have housing facilities for staff here (purchased a number of buildings around Central Riverdale years ago). I guess it's suburban enough to feel removed, but still close enough to get to and from work easily. Columbia University is an affiliate of New York-Presbyterian. There's also a dorm here in Riverdale for Columbia University grad students. They have a shuttle bus that takes them back and forth, but that isn't always available, so I could see that W 125th St stop being useful for those folks.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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When I went to CCNY I knew a few people who commuted from Westchester. I could definitely see it getting some usage from college students at both schools. (And around the holidays, you could even get some Amtrak trains to stop there for the students in the dorms who are going home to visit their family)

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12 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

When I went to CCNY I knew a few people who commuted from Westchester. I could definitely see it getting some usage from college students at both schools. (And around the holidays, you could even get some Amtrak trains to stop there for the students in the dorms who are going home to visit their family)

To be honest, Amtrak should probably stop there all the time if it gets built.

The first stop after Penn Station is Yonkers. Yonkers is at least an hour away from Penn Station by local transit. A station halfway uptown would slash travel times to Amtrak services for a good million or two people.

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