Service to Penn Station via East Bronx

[GojiMet86]

The environmental assessment:

https://pennstationaccess.info/environmental-assessment

 

The Project Alternatives:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5d278d57950ce60001fd9b83/t/60a431e43e998f0fd9e0004d/1621373417555/02_PSA+EA_Project+Alternatives.pdf

 

These are the locations and the track maps/diagrams of the new line:

 

Hunts Point:

The Hunts Point station area has more challenges for station construction and operation than the other proposed station locations. The station would be near Hunts Point Avenue and south of the Bruckner Expressway within a cut, well below street level. This area of the right-of-way has five overhead road bridges, with abutments that constrain the width of the right-of-way and the position of the tracks below. Within the right-of-way, the Oak Point freight rail yard is near this location to the south of the proposed passenger tracks, further limiting the position of the platform. To fit a station platform in this area, along with the passenger tracks and the freight tracks, the platform would have to taper at either end. Hunts Point Avenue is the spine of the adjacent neighborhood, connecting the residential community on the peninsula to the commercial core of Southern Boulevard to the north. While other roadways connect here as well, Hunts Point Avenue has the advantage of connecting pedestrians to the No. 6 Line subway in Monsignor Raul Del Valle Square (an express stop station). To the east, the right of-way threads its way under the Bruckner Expressway and curves to the Bronx River Bridge. The ramping system of the Bruckner Expressway, Sheridan Expressway, and Bruckner Boulevard to the east of Faile Street creates a large barrier to the north for pedestrians, and would greatly diminish the value of a station if moved in that direction.

The proposed access to the below-grade station platform would be from the northwest corner of Hunts Point and Garrison Avenues (Figure 2-2). Passengers would use newly constructed stairwells and/or an ADA compliant elevator to reach the platform. While a former New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad rail station still stands on the east side of Hunts Point Avenue, its condition is extremely poor and does not align with the proposed project track alignment. Further, a third party leases the station building as a small business incubator, which would not be able to accommodate station access in addition to business opportunities. While the constraints of the area are difficult, as mentioned the station is within two blocks of the No. 6 Line subway. The Hunts Point Peninsula—also home to the Fulton Fish Market—has taken on a larger role of handling food distribution within the city along with its associated jobs and commuting workers who could utilize the proposed station.

 

Parkchester-Van Nest:

This station would be within the railroad right-of-way east of Unionport Road and north of Tremont Avenue East on the site of the former New York, New Haven, and Hartford Railroad station. The station would be adjacent to the Van Nest Substation (which powers the HGL) and the Con Edison facility to the north and the Parkchester Apartment Complex to the south.

As shown in Figure 2-3, the tracks heading west from this location rapidly change into a curve in order to fit the four tracks between the bridge abutments of White Plains and Unionport Roads above the tracks. The platform cannot be located farther west because of the track curvature and the limited space available under those roads. Access to the at-grade station would be from the north side of Tremont Avenue East, using the former railroad service building lot. Stairwells and an elevator would be constructed to provide passenger access between the platform and street level. MTACD and the New York City Department of Transportation have discussed potentially creating a connection from the station platform to the Unionport Bridge to better serve the Van Nest neighborhood farther north. Similarly, a private developer that owns a site adjacent to the station area has suggested a connection to the north side of the site. However, given the uncertainty of these plans, for the purposes of this EA, MTA analyzed the entrance developed as part of the 30 percent design (to be included in the design-build contract) as part of the Proposed Project. Any impacts from changes to the design would be assessed by MTA and the design-builder through a supplemental NEPA evaluation.

 

Morris Park:

This station would be in the railroad right-of-way east of Eastchester Road and north of Basset Road in the Morris Park community, which is surrounded by multiple medical centers to the north (Jacobi, Montefiore, and Calvary Hospitals, and Yeshiva Medical School) and a burgeoning redevelopment site to the south (the former Bronx Psychiatric Center) (Figure 2-4). The overpass connecting to the station platform would provide an important connection between the distinct portions of the neighborhood (the medical campus and the redevelopment area). Two factors prevent the platform from moving farther west:

• The Eastchester Road bridge immediately to the west of this location comprises multiple bridge spans that the tracks have to follow, which limits the length of straight section where a platform could be located.

• Just past the bridge is the start of a large curve in the tracks.

In addition, the platform could not be located farther east because an active distribution center exists to the southeast, and no available corridor exists to create a linkage between the medical centers and the redevelopment area. Lastly, the tracks begin to curve just past the distribution center in order to slot between the large concrete piers that support Pelham Parkway overhead. As mentioned, access to the at-grade station would be from both sides of the right-of-way to serve the array of facilities on either side of the tracks. Morris Park Avenue is the best location for a connection over the right-of-way because of its central location leading into the heart of the community, which is flanked by the various medical facilities. Stairwells and elevators would be constructed to provide passenger access between the platform, overpass, and each end at street level. The north entrance would be next to the tracks near Morris Park Avenue. The south entrance would be across the street from the tracks, next to an existing 9/11 memorial. Although private owners of sites adjacent to the station have suggested a potentially larger station that would serve as a gateway between the two neighborhoods, given the uncertainty of these plans, for the purposes of this EA, MTA analyzed the layout developed as part of the 30 percent design (to be included in the design-build contract) as part of the Proposed Project. Any impacts from changes to the design would be assessed by MTA and the design builder through a supplemental NEPA evaluation.

 

Co-op City:

The proposed station would be within the railroad right-of-way south of Erskine Place and west of DeReimer Avenue, in Section 5 of Co-op City see Figure 2-5). As the easternmost station, at the end of the new fourtrack section of the HGL, the station platform would be located sufficiently west to allow the four tracks to merge into two to then cross the existing Pelham Bay Bridge. The bridge is at the end of a curve, meaning the switches for merging the tracks cannot be directly adjacent to the bridge, but rather more inland. The station platform cannot be located next to those switches so that trains not stopping at the station could continue unimpeded. These technical requirements constrain the eastern limit of the station location. Further, the proposed station location was established to avoid precluding Amtrak’s future replacement of the Pelham Bay Bridge, which is expected to be higher than the existing bridge to minimize the number of required openings. (Figure 2-5 represents a potential new bridge.) The New England Thruway (I-95) overhead constrains the western limit of the station location, because the New England Thruway ramps and Hutchinson River Parkway effectively block access to the local street network in that area. To remain accessible, the platform must extend slightly eastward past the overhead New England Thruway bridge to be able to connect to the local street network on Erskine Place at DeReimer Avenue. Access at this location would be via a newly constructed overpass above the railroad right-of-way using stairwells and an elevator—the latter being required for ADA compliance. An expansion of the sidewalk network westward along the edge of the right-of-way and the Erskine Place Ramp to the New England Thruway could be developed and lead to an additional entrance to the west end of the platform. Layovers for New York City buses occur near the station, and this station would leverage those stops to serve the greater Co-op City community. Chapter 12, “Transportation” further discusses traffic circulation.

 

And the track maps:

Edited May 21, 2021 by GojiMet86

[bobtehpanda]

So except for Hunts Point all of them would have pretty long walking connections to crossing bus routes. Great.

How long are the platforms?

[B35 via Church]

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

In theory, 168th makes sense (I would not dismiss the need of a W 125th station quite frankly - I'll explain why later). The challenge with a stop in the vicinity of 168th is where to place to station so that it is accessible. I actually have found myself spending more time up in the Hudson Heights area over the last few years, and while the views of the Hudson and Palisades are great, much of it is not accessible there or further south by New York-Presbyterian. That's a trip I take more and more by car. It's just across the Henry Hudson Bridge, so it's a 10-15 minute trip that is much much longer via public transit.

As far as W 125th St, as someone who frequents the Columbia University area, I definitely see the use for that stop. Usually when I go down there, I go by car because it's not easy to reach without a number of transfers. Demographically speaking, I would say you could perhaps get people that currently drive to perhaps hop on the train since it would be so quick. I'm thinking primarily of people that live in my area in Riverdale that work at Columbia University or go to school there. One thing I have learned living here... There are a ton of people that work in the medical field that live up here... Mount Sinai, New York-Presbyterian and the other major hospitals, and some of the hospitals mentioned have housing facilities for staff here (purchased a number of buildings around Central Riverdale years ago). I guess it's suburban enough to feel removed, but still close enough to get to and from work easily. Columbia University is an affiliate of New York-Presbyterian. There's also a dorm here in Riverdale for Columbia University grad students. They have a shuttle bus that takes them back and forth, but that isn't always available, so I could see that W 125th St stop being useful for those folks.

2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

When I went to CCNY I knew a few people who commuted from Westchester. I could definitely see it getting some usage from college students at both schools. (And around the holidays, you could even get some Amtrak trains to stop there for the students in the dorms who are going home to visit their family)

A RR station on that end of 125th st. panning out, I see as being theoretical, for reasons stated in VG8's post....

As much as IDC for GWB terminal as a major terminal in & of itself, I'd much rather take my chances with propping up a RR station more proximate to it, than banking on whatever transformation that Manhattanville will undergo as a result of Columbia U's expansion....

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

To be honest, Amtrak should probably stop there all the time if it gets built.

The first stop after Penn Station is Yonkers. Yonkers is at least an hour away from Penn Station by local transit. A station halfway uptown would slash travel times to Amtrak services for a good million or two people.

Specifically, although I see the west side of 125th being overrated with Columbia's presence over there, any infill stations in general regarding this MNRR west side plan should be solely left for MNRR itself....

 

[bobtehpanda]

39 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

A RR station on that end of 125th st. panning out, I see as being theoretical, for reasons stated in VG8's post....

As much as IDC for GWB terminal as a major terminal in & of itself, I'd much rather take my chances with propping up a RR station more proximate to it, than banking on whatever transformation that Manhattanville will undergo as a result of Columbia U's expansion....

Specifically, although I see the west side of 125th being overrated with Columbia's presence over there, any infill stations in general regarding this MNRR west side plan should be solely left for MNRR itself....

 

125th (or whatever Uptown station you want) could use the frequency.

Here you can use the commuter rail passes on the Amtrak trains to Portland and Vancouver since they make the same stops. The Amtrak trains are still faster than the buses and faster than flying once accounting for door to airport time.

[40MntVrn]

I know it is very premature to ask, but are there any proposals around service frequency?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

30 minutes ago, 40MntVrn said:

I know it is very premature to ask, but are there any proposals around service frequency?

No. Too soon for that. What I expect however is for there to be local trains running either before or after express trains on the New Haven to cover these new stations, similar to what exists on the Harlem and Hudson lines, so you'll likely see something like a train every 30 minutes most of the day or once an hour at other times. You definitely won't be getting subway frequencies, that much I'm sure of.

 

9 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

A RR station on that end of 125th st. panning out, I see as being theoretical, for reasons stated in VG8's post....

As much as IDC for GWB terminal as a major terminal in & of itself, I'd much rather take my chances with propping up a RR station more proximate to it, than banking on whatever transformation that Manhattanville will undergo as a result of Columbia U's expansion....

Specifically, although I see the west side of 125th being overrated with Columbia's presence over there, any infill stations in general regarding this MNRR west side plan should be solely left for MNRR itself....

 

I think you definitely need some data to see how such a station would do, but I do think there is some demand there. The question is how much. I think some  train riders would also go for the option. That's usually where the line starts to become crowded and then by 103rd St, it's unbearable.

[B35 via Church]

17 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

125th (or whatever Uptown station you want) could use the frequency.

Here you can use the commuter rail passes on the Amtrak trains to Portland and Vancouver since they make the same stops. The Amtrak trains are still faster than the buses and faster than flying once accounting for door to airport time.

 Sure - just as long as that frequency isn't comprised of Amtrak trains stopping (wherever) in uptown....

7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I think you definitely need some data to see how such a station would do, but I do think there is some demand there. The question is how much. I think some  train riders would also go for the option. That's usually where the line starts to become crowded and then by 103rd St, it's unbearable.

When I said I personally wouldn't bother with a 125th st station (on the west side), that wasn't to implicate a belief of there not being any demand.... I'm simply not buying into the Columbia hype drawing in all too many riders, enough to prop up a RR station over there.... As it stands, that area around 125th & what they apparently have planned for it, appears to resemble an awkward, watered down version of Lincoln Center.... If that's what the developers are going for, more power to them....

----------

Anyway, funny thing about those that gentrify into this city, is that they tend to not be all too fond of the RR (LIRR Long Island City is a good enough an example - folks that moved into One Hunters Point [that condo literally/directly across the f***ing street from the LIRR station/yard, mind you] practically demanded that the MTA get rid of the whole yard... Entitlement at its finest.... I forget what entity it was (I believe it was the owners of that very bldg. in question), but a suggestion was made that consisted of a whole deck be installed over the rail yard!! Pure gold... Can't make this shit up... Even if the LIRR transported riders into Manhattan over there, I'd still say their sentiments/disgust would still be apparent)....

edit: Found it - https://licpost.com/tf-cornerstone-puts-together-plan-to-rezone-a-large-chunk-of-hunters-point-involves-a-deck-over-sunnyside-yard
(ignore the embarrassing gaffe of conflating Sunnyside Yard with Long Island City LIRR yard.... Morons)

Edited May 22, 2021 by B35 via Church

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

 When I said I personally wouldn't bother with a 125th st station (on the west side), that wasn't to implicate a belief of there not being any demand.... I'm simply not buying into the Columbia hype drawing in all too many riders, enough to prop up a RR station over there.... As it stands, that area around 125th & what they apparently have planned for it, appears to resemble an awkward, watered down version of Lincoln Center.... If that's what the developers are going for, more power to them....

Yeah I think the only question is how much demand, 

[R10 2952]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Anyway, funny thing about those that gentrify into this city, is that they tend to not be all too fond of the RR (LIRR Long Island City is a good enough an example - folks that moved into One Hunters Point [that condo literally/directly across the f***ing street from the LIRR station/yard, mind you] practically demanded that the MTA get rid of the whole yard... Entitlement at its finest.... I forget what entity it was (I believe it was the owners of that very bldg. in question), but a suggestion was made that consisted of a whole deck be installed over the rail yard!! Pure gold... Can't make this shit up... Even if the LIRR transported riders into Manhattan over there, I'd still say their sentiments/disgust would still be apparent)....

edit: Found it - https://licpost.com/tf-cornerstone-puts-together-plan-to-rezone-a-large-chunk-of-hunters-point-involves-a-deck-over-sunnyside-yard
(ignore the embarrassing gaffe of conflating Sunnyside Yard with Long Island City LIRR yard.... Morons)

THIS. Lot of things about the yuppie and hipster transplant rich kids from the suburbs get on my nerves, but the one thing that I find absolutely irritating is their attitude that their wants outweigh native New Yorkers needs.  Especially in the transportation context- High Line, Essex "Low Line", the bullshit with LIC... the list goes on.

Edited May 22, 2021 by R10 2952

[checkmatechamp13]

23 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

To be honest, Amtrak should probably stop there all the time if it gets built.

The first stop after Penn Station is Yonkers. Yonkers is at least an hour away from Penn Station by local transit. A station halfway uptown would slash travel times to Amtrak services for a good million or two people.

You're not really saving much, considering by definition there would be Metro-North trains stopping Uptown. (The other thing is that there's still 125th & Park for quick access to Yonkers, so you're only really benefitting those on the West Side of Manhattan). Not to say that they should or shouldn't stop there, but I'd consider it like Yonkers or (especially) Croton-Harmon: It's nice that they stop there but it wouldn't be the end of the world if they didn't.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

20 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

125th (or whatever Uptown station you want) could use the frequency.

Here you can use the commuter rail passes on the Amtrak trains to Portland and Vancouver since they make the same stops. The Amtrak trains are still faster than the buses and faster than flying once accounting for door to airport time.

 

24 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

You're not really saving much, considering by definition there would be Metro-North trains stopping Uptown. (The other thing is that there's still 125th & Park for quick access to Yonkers, so you're only really benefitting those on the West Side of Manhattan). Not to say that they should or shouldn't stop there, but I'd consider it like Yonkers or (especially) Croton-Harmon: It's nice that they stop there but it wouldn't be the end of the world if they didn't.

Speaking of Amtrak, there has been talk thrown around about it stopping at the Riverdale station. No idea if it'll ever happen.

[Deucey]

3 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

THIS. Lot of things about the yuppie and hipster transplant rich kids from the suburbs get on my nerves, but the one thing that I find absolutely irritating is their attitude that their wants outweigh native New Yorkers needs.  Especially in the transportation context- High Line, Essex "Low Line", the bullshit with LIC... the list goes on.

As the descendant of a native NYer who grew up hearing native NYers complain about NY then go do something else, more of you need to be like @Via Garibaldi 8 and less like the folks on sitcoms portraying NY.

Only reason those gentrifiers get what they want and NYers don’t is because they were trained to B&M and march and lobby to get what they want while NYers generally B&M and then ignore the rallies and elections.

We could have RBB getting EIR’d and funding identified to get folks from 53rd to JFK if NYers B&M’d loud and constantly enough. Hell,  were gonna cancel SAS Phase 2 until Harlem put feet down and said “BUILD THIS” and put the pressure on. VG8 gets routes, frequencies and stops changed bc he and his folks do the same AND network with decision makers.

IJS.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

14 minutes ago, Deucey said:

As the descendant of a native NYer who grew up hearing native NYers complain about NY then go do something else, more of you need to be like @Via Garibaldi 8 and less like the folks on sitcoms portraying NY.

Only reason those gentrifiers get what they want and NYers don’t is because they were trained to B&M and march and lobby to get what they want while NYers generally B&M and then ignore the rallies and elections.

We could have RBB getting EIR’d and funding identified to get folks from 53rd to JFK if NYers B&M’d loud and constantly enough. Hell,  were gonna cancel SAS Phase 2 until Harlem put feet down and said “BUILD THIS” and put the pressure on. VG8 gets routes, frequencies and stops changed bc he and his folks do the same AND network with decision makers.

IJS.

I am repping you because you are absolutely correct about transplants. They also vote too, something that many New Yorkers do not do because they don't think anything will change (there is some truth to that as well). However, for me, if I am irked enough by something, I have no problem working to fix it, no matter how long it takes. Our City is very dysfunctional in many ways and it takes a long time to get basic things done, but you have to work in an organized, systematic way. 

As for me getting things done, particularly with the  , they absolutely hate me. I'm totally fine with it. The reason is because I don't stop. I keep pressuring them and I am respectful along the way, so they have put up with me to some extent. That's the way you do it. We don't get everything done, but I sure as hell will continue to push. That's the only way the status quo will change, and that will definitely ruffle feathers and has. I'm cool with that too. Such is life. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Deucey]

6 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I am repping you because you are absolutely correct about transplants. They also vote too, something that many New Yorkers do not do because they don't think anything will change (there is some truth to that as well).

In 22 years of being eligible to vote, I’ve only missed two elections: the California General in 1998 and the Sacramento County special in November 2013 - both because my absentee ballot didn’t arrive (‘98 I was in Atlanta for school, ‘13 I had just moved here and mail wasn’t going to my PO Box fast enough). Haven’t missed any election since I changed my residency to NY.

And every time, I shlep down St Marks Pl and inside the church to answer the three questions on the ballot and keep it moving.

And back when I was a Californian, I’d drive to the church for my precinct, answer the 20 questions on the four pages of ballot sheet, and keep it moving.

So I don’t get why it’s so hard for natives to do that when Trump isn’t on the ballot. I get NY drains the soul, but it might be that folks like you and I understand nothing changes if we don’t agitate for change, and 5 minutes (in NYC) to fill in some bubbles is the easiest way to effect the beginning of change AND piss off those spoiled suburban gentrifiers by not letting them get what they want at everyone else’s expense.

/soapbox 

[R10 2952]

I agree with all the points made above; too many New Yorkers are passive about public policy issues and local electoral politics, and only a few are willing to throw up their hands and say, "this is bullshit".

Back in 2010 when I lived in the West Bronx, MTA tried to axe the Bx20.  It's still around mainly because the neighborhood showed up at hearings to remind the agency bean-counters that not everyone trying to get the  at 207th lives along the Bx7. 

More recently, when the U.S. Postal Service started royally screwing up mail service because of that idiot postmaster DeJoy, I made it clear to my elected officials how I felt about it, and now we have 55-60 members of Congress calling on Biden to remove the entire USPS Board of Governors for cause.

Or all the state legislators who put up with Cuomo's ego for years- now that they're starting to push back, they realize he's not the infallible demigod he makes himself out to be. 

In other words... no deposit, no return.

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by R10 2952

[B35 via Church]

6 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

You're not really saving much, considering by definition there would be Metro-North trains stopping Uptown. (The other thing is that there's still 125th & Park for quick access to Yonkers, so you're only really benefittng those on the West Side of Manhattan). Not to say that they should or shouldn't stop there, but I'd consider it like Yonkers or (especially) Croton-Harmon: It's nice that they stop there but it wouldn't be the end of the world if they didn't.

To add to the 125th/park point, what's underrated are the amount of Queens patrons from the east (at least) that take M60's to the MNRR.... Good luck getting anyone from the opposite coast making their way across the Hudson (down from GWB) to get to an MNRR 125th st station on the west side, let alone too much of anyone else outside of the immediate region (Manhattanville/Harlem) that would trek over to the station for RR usage....

To your other point about not being the end of the world, I agree with that when it comes to Yonkers & New Roc' (being they're large enough cities in their respective general regions that trains pass by & what not), but a west side 125th st. MNRR station would be more akin to Amtrak trains stopping at Croton-Harmon... What I'm saying is that there is a stark difference b/w Amtrak trains stopping at Yonkers vs. that of Croton-Harmon.... The benefits to having trains stop at both of those stations aren't remotely close to being similar - hell, you even emphasized it by having used the word "especially" there.....

1 hour ago, R10 2952 said:

I agree with all the points made above; too many New Yorkers are passive about public policy issues and local electoral politics, and only a few are willing to throw up their hands and say, "this is bullshit".

Back in 2010 when I lived in the West Bronx, MTA tried to axe the Bx20.  It's still around mainly because the neighborhood showed up at hearings to remind the agency bean-counters that not everyone trying to get the  at 207th lives along the Bx7. 

More recently, when the U.S. Postal Service started royally screwing up mail service because of that idiot postmaster DeJoy, I made it clear to my elected officials how I felt about it, and now we have 55-60 members of Congress calling on Biden to remove the entire USPS Board of Governors for cause.

Or all the state legislators who put up with Cuomo's ego for years- now that they're starting to push back, they realize he's not the infallible demigod he makes himself out to be. 

In other words... no deposit, no return.

While there's been (and still is) a certain ongoing passivity by us natives, there is also a certain catering to/assisting of transplants over natives in this city - but of course that part always gets left out.... This notion that they're doing all this strapping on of bootstraps & having the city transformed to how they want it (as you referenced in an earlier post) is half-truthed at best & farcical at worst... The tourists of yesteryear & the transplants of today into this city have more in common than they like to let on....

To analogize, it's akin to a dude that's still legally married to some woman whose love has waned for, but is giving the chick he's messing around with on the side almost (if not all) the love & attention the wife should be getting.... The side chick has a clear advantage there in that regard.... People can say (or make like) what they want about all things being equal, yada yada yada, but mistrust of someone/something (e.g. local politics) grows over time; it doesn't happen just because..... Suffice it to say, that is what's going on here with the whole (NYC) natives vs. transplants bit... When today's transplant is no longer the new kid on the block, then they'll be singing the same tune those of us that's been (born) into this city & having lived long enough a time in it are - providing they stay long enough, of course (which a lot of them don't do, but want to talk about natives jumping ship).... The f*** out of here

[paulrivera]

Morris Park is gonna be printing money. That's gonna be the Fordham of the East Bronx right there. Jacobi, Einstein, Montefiore, Hutch Metro Center are all nearby and are going to bring riders from both directions. More importantly, I think this station alone is going to attract a lot of new riders who aren't even riding Metro-North today (much less anything )

[B35 via Church]

39 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

Morris Park is gonna be printing money. That's gonna be the Fordham of the East Bronx right there. Jacobi, Einstein, Montefiore, Hutch Metro Center are all nearby and are going to bring riders from both directions. More importantly, I think this station alone is going to attract a lot of new riders who aren't even riding Metro-North today (much less anything )......

If you had said that whole Morris Park-Parkchester-Westchester Sq. region of the Bronx, I'd concur... Morris Park by itself however, while it'll be much better off than the quiet, not much talked about enclave that it currently is, it singularly doesn't have that "it" factor to be the comparative Fordham of the East Bronx...

Speaking of Fordham, Fordham better worry about being the Fordham of the Bronx....

Edited May 22, 2021 by B35 via Church

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

If you had said that whole Morris Park-Parkchester-Westchester Sq. region of the Bronx, I'd concur... Morris Park by itself however, while it'll be much better off than the quiet, not much talked about enclave that it currently is, it singularly doesn't have that "it" factor to be the comparative Fordham of the East Bronx...

Speaking of Fordham, Fordham better worry about being the Fordham of the Bronx....

 

3 hours ago, paulrivera said:

Morris Park is gonna be printing money. That's gonna be the Fordham of the East Bronx right there. Jacobi, Einstein, Montefiore, Hutch Metro Center are all nearby and are going to bring riders from both directions. More importantly, I think this station alone is going to attract a lot of new riders who aren't even riding Metro-North today (much less anything )

It will get a lot of reverse peak riders though. Let's just say that Albert Einstein and Montefiore are big clients of mine and they have a large staff at that Albert Einstein campus there in Morris Park. A lot of them live in Manhattan, but commute to Morris Park, primarily via the BxM10, since it stops right there by Eastchester Rd and Morris Park Av. Those buses are constantly filled, even off-peak, especially during the week. Montefiore and Albert Einstein are both affiliates, and Montefiore is one of the largest employers in that area, and is the largest employer in the Bronx, so I expect them to continue to expand in Morris Park where possible. It's a safe, quiet neighborhood, with a good housing stock, so you also have doctors that live right there in Morris Park/Indian Village. It will not be a Fordham, but that station will definitely make the neighborhood more desirable than it already is. I also forgot that the station is fairly close to Pelham Gardens, so those people will definitely use it if they have a need. They're another group that are big express bus riders. Board over by Mace Av and Eastchester Rd.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Deucey]

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

To analogize, it's akin to a dude that's still legally married to some woman whose love has waned for, but is giving the chick he's messing around with on the side almost (if not all) the love & attention the wife should be getting....

The flaw to your analogy is that while the side chick has the attention and affection, the wife can take all his money and end the side chick’s reign just by calling the lawyers and being hardline during the mediation or trial.

There’s more native NYers and (like me) assimilated NYers than transplants; we easily could make the transplants and hipsters “get on board” or go home by doing like how @Via Garibaldi 8does or all of Harlem did with SAS.

Nihilism never achieved anything useful.

[bobtehpanda]

14 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

You're not really saving much, considering by definition there would be Metro-North trains stopping Uptown. (The other thing is that there's still 125th & Park for quick access to Yonkers, so you're only really benefitting those on the West Side of Manhattan). Not to say that they should or shouldn't stop there, but I'd consider it like Yonkers or (especially) Croton-Harmon: It's nice that they stop there but it wouldn't be the end of the world if they didn't.

To be clear, what I'm not saying is that there needs to be faster access to Yonkers.

What I am trying to say, is that if you are going to Albany and you live in, I don't know, East Harlem, neither schlepping down to Penn Station nor the reverse to Yonkers to catch the Empire Corridor is going to be very attractive, because that's what, an additional 30, 60 minutes to get to the station, for a trip that only takes 2.5 hours to start with.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

To be clear, what I'm not saying is that there needs to be faster access to Yonkers.

What I am trying to say, is that if you are going to Albany and you live in, I don't know, East Harlem, neither schlepping down to Penn Station nor the reverse to Yonkers to catch the Empire Corridor is going to be very attractive, because that's what, an additional 30, 60 minutes to get to the station, for a trip that only takes 2.5 hours to start with.

That could easily be determined by simply seeing how much potential ridership is there. If there's a sizable demand, sure, but it's a railroad, not a subway. It's the same thing with Metro-North. We have too many people trying to turn our railroads into de-facto subways. If you want more subways, advocate for them being built (and that's a general statement, not directly at you), but everyone is clamoring for more rail service, but no one is willing to put the money there for it. We've had two subway extensions, both in subway rich Manhattan....

Edited May 22, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That could easily be determined by simply seeing how much potential ridership is there. If there's a sizable demand, sure, but it's a railroad, not a subway. It's the same thing with Metro-North. We have too many people trying to turn our railroads into de-facto subways. If you want more subways, advocate for them being built (and that's a general statement, not directly at you), but everyone is clamoring for more rail service, but no one is willing to put the money there for it. We've had two subway extensions, both in subway rich Manhattan....

It would be nice if the railroads were more like RER, but that would require more builds, interagency cooperation or amalgamation, and reformed labor practices (ie why can’t the railroads have turnstiles for entry/exit instead of conductors putting paper on seats).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, Deucey said:

It would be nice if the railroads were more like RER, but that would require more builds, interagency cooperation or amalgamation, and reformed labor practices (ie why can’t the railroads have turnstiles for entry/exit instead of conductors putting paper on seats).

Paper tickets are slowly being phased out though. The monthly ticket program will eventually be replaced with e-tickets. OMNY's upcoming phases involve MNRR and the LIRR. Quite frankly, I haven't purchased a paper ticket in years. I buy them on my iPad. The technology is secure enough now that I even feel comfortable buying weekly or monthly tickets, though I have not needed to mainly working from home. I don't know what they plan to do via OMNY aside from scanners for the e-tickets, but it is coming. The punch tickets for the different zones... Don't see any other process for that, but who knows. In Italy, we had ticket machines on each track and you would have your ticket stamped before getting on the train. If you didn't you would be fined on the spot and would have to pay then and there. 5€ or something... Happened to me once because I didn't know. Most places operate using an honor system and a verification process. I don't care for the turnstiles idea, as that could lead to more farebeating and less safe trains. 

The cops can be called immediately to remove any unruly passenger on Metro-North or someone that refuses to pay, so it keeps that element off of the train.

[bobtehpanda]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That could easily be determined by simply seeing how much potential ridership is there. If there's a sizable demand, sure, but it's a railroad, not a subway. It's the same thing with Metro-North. We have too many people trying to turn our railroads into de-facto subways. If you want more subways, advocate for them being built (and that's a general statement, not directly at you), but everyone is clamoring for more rail service, but no one is willing to put the money there for it. We've had two subway extensions, both in subway rich Manhattan....

I mean this is neither here nor there.

What I mean to say is, if the stop is going to get built anyways as part of Penn Station Access, and there aren't passing tracks around the station (which there probably wouldn't be given the Empire Corridor's constraints), then Amtrak should just stop there anyways since it won't add much time.

As an example, if you take the ICE out of Berlin to Frankfurt it stops at Berlin Ostkreuz, Berlin Hbf and Berlin Spandau. If you take the Tokaido Shinkansen out of Tokyo it stops at Tokyo Station and Shinagawa. The same principle is in place for all of them; for intercity trips of 3-4 hours backtracking an hour via local transit to get from the door to the station or vice versa is counterproductive.