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East side access City Terminal Zone


AJ023
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Will stops on City Terminal Zone stations such as Woodside, Forest Hills and Kew Gardens get both Penn Station and Grand Central Station trains once the project is completed?

Im curious as to how they will schedule trains.  

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On 5/29/2021 at 5:54 PM, AJ023 said:

Will stops on City Terminal Zone stations such as Woodside, Forest Hills and Kew Gardens get both Penn Station and Grand Central Station trains once the project is completed?

Im curious as to how they will schedule trains.  

Any sample timetables were from long ago so are probably irrelevant now, but I do remember that the documents for Port Washington Yard expansion showed four trains to Penn and four trains to GC per hour during the peak, alternating.

I would imagine, at minimum, most branches looking like that, and the Atlantic Branches being replaced with services to Penn (given that when ESA opens it's highly likely Penn will become the less popular terminal)

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On 5/29/2021 at 8:54 PM, AJ023 said:

Will stops on City Terminal Zone stations such as Woodside, Forest Hills and Kew Gardens get both Penn Station and Grand Central Station trains once the project is completed?

Im curious as to how they will schedule trains.  

Same (about the curiosity bit)....

Anyway, I can't see those stations getting only service to one of the two stations.... The question as I see it is, how much (service) of one over the other, will those stations get over the other.....

On 5/31/2021 at 3:38 PM, bobtehpanda said:

....(given that when ESA opens it's highly likely Penn will become the less popular terminal)

The more I think about ESA, the more I still think more people will gravitate towards Penn..... I'm excluding people using the LIRR to get to/from Manhattan for night time activities & things of the sort when I say that too....

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Posted (edited)

I think Penn and GCT will both be nearly equally as popular. If you're heading to midtown or uptown, GCT is the ideal destination. But if you're heading Midtown West, Downtown or Downtown Brooklyn, Penn is the better bet.  2/3 or the A subway from Penn is a faster route downtown most of the time than the 4/5 N/R/W from GCT. But GCT is the ticket East side and central midtown.

 

 

Edited by mzxeternal
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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Same (about the curiosity bit)....

Anyway, I can't see those stations getting only service to one of the two stations.... The question as I see it is, how much (service) of one over the other, will those stations get over the other.....

The more I think about ESA, the more I still think more people will gravitate towards Penn..... I'm excluding people using the LIRR to get to/from Manhattan for night time activities & things of the sort when I say that too....

 

11 minutes ago, mzxeternal said:

I think Penn and GCT will both be nearly equally as popular. If you're heading to midtown or uptown, GCT is the ideal destination. But if you're heading Midtown West, Downtown or Downtown Brooklyn, Penn is the better bet.  2/3 or the A subway from Penn is a faster route downtown most of the time than the 4/5 N/R/W from GCT. But GCT is the ticket East side and central midtown.

The numbers are quite severe, something like 75% of jobs in Manhattan are a 15 minute walk from Grand Central, and that was from a study in 2004; it's almost definitely shifted further away from Downtown since then.

If you're heading to Downtown Brooklyn you'd be better off hoofing it to Platform F at Jamaica.

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On 5/30/2021 at 2:54 AM, AJ023 said:

Will stops on City Terminal Zone stations such as Woodside, Forest Hills and Kew Gardens get both Penn Station and Grand Central Station trains once the project is completed?

Im curious as to how they will schedule trains.  

On the wiki page of East Side Access there is written that the trains are expected to run 24 hours a day and that the plans call for 24 trains per hour to run to Grand Central during peak morning hours, with an estimated 162,000 passenger trips to and from Grand Central on an average weekday.

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My fear is that Woodside service will be seriously cut now that there will be little to zero LIRR to <7>(7) traffic. Taking the Q53 to catch the train to Penn is a favorite mode of getting to the city when the QM15 isn't an option. 

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19 hours ago, shiznit1987 said:

My fear is that Woodside service will be seriously cut now that there will be little to zero LIRR to <7>(7) traffic. Taking the Q53 to catch the train to Penn is a favorite mode of getting to the city when the QM15 isn't an option. 

...do people switch from the (7) to Penn in significant numbers? I can't imagine that'd save a whole lot of time if you account for walking and waiting time, over say (7) to 7th Avenue, and it would cost a lot more as a zone 1-3 fare.

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On 6/13/2021 at 6:28 PM, shiznit1987 said:

My fear is that Woodside service will be seriously cut now that there will be little to zero LIRR to <7>(7) traffic......

That xfer scenario isn't all too high to begin with though....

If LIRR Woodside service does see serious cuts due to ESA, pretty certain what you bring up here wouldn't be a reason....

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Does the ESA plan mean that all service originating from Long Island/eastern terminals will go to either Penn or Grand Central? If that's the case, I personally feel that there should be some direct service (during peak hours at the very least) from Atlantic Terminal. 

I personally see Grand Central as a more attractive option for more of the Midtown crowd (definitely for East Midtown) . Penn would still be useful for west Midtown and for parts of Lower Manhattan. 

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45 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Does the ESA plan mean that all service originating from Long Island/eastern terminals will go to either Penn or Grand Central? If that's the case, I personally feel that there should be some direct service (during peak hours at the very least) from Atlantic Terminal. 

I personally see Grand Central as a more attractive option for more of the Midtown crowd (definitely for East Midtown) . Penn would still be useful for west Midtown and for parts of Lower Manhattan. 

Yeah, I get the impression that Penn service will drop off significantly once ESA opens.  Even more reason to maintain direct service to Altantic-Flatbush in my opinion, for people trying to reach Manhattan below 14th.

On some level, I'm surprised the High Line was never used for passenger service; if I recall correctly, the street-level railroad it replaced did provide passenger service to Saint John's Park.

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55 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

Yeah, I get the impression that Penn service will drop off significantly once ESA opens.  Even more reason to maintain direct service to Altantic-Flatbush in my opinion, for people trying to reach Manhattan below 14th.

On some level, I'm surprised the High Line was never used for passenger service; if I recall correctly, the street-level railroad it replaced did provide passenger service to Saint John's Park.

There pretty much isn't any good way to get to street level from a proper station due to all the meandering into warehouses it did. In fact, the relative lack of street access points is a problem for it as a park as well.

Also, it was built to service a warehouse district and docks that largely stopped after containerization, but that also had the effect of removing any real reason to go there.

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On 6/14/2021 at 9:28 PM, R10 2952 said:

Yeah, I get the impression that Penn service will drop off significantly once ESA opens.  Even more reason to maintain direct service to Altantic-Flatbush in my opinion, for people trying to reach Manhattan below 14th.

On some level, I'm surprised the High Line was never used for passenger service; if I recall correctly, the street-level railroad it replaced did provide passenger service to Saint John's Park.

Agreed. I'm really not a fan of LIRR's plan to turn Brooklyn service into a shuttle to/from Jamaica.

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