BxM4C Midday Service Elimination & Other Bee-Line Changes Effective September 7th, 2021

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

https://transportation.westchestergov.com/images/stories/Schedules/fall21seasonalposter.pdf

The largest changes are on the 5 and 6 buses on Sundays, as they will now operate every 40 minutes combined (every 80 minutes individually) instead of every hour combined. The span on the 6 is more frequent.

Also notable is the BxM4C midday service (or what was left of it) being eliminated. The route will now be a rush-hour only service in the peak direction, with some early evening service. Although it may also be a matter of time before the evening service also gets eliminated. 

 

[Lex]

42 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

https://transportation.westchestergov.com/images/stories/Schedules/fall21seasonalposter.pdf

The largest changes are on the 5 and 6 buses on Sundays, as they will now operate every 40 minutes combined (every 80 minutes individually) instead of every hour combined. The span on the 6 is more frequent.

Also notable is the BxM4C midday service (or what was left of it) being eliminated. The route will now be a rush-hour only service in the peak direction, with some early evening service. Although it may also be a matter of time before the evening service also gets eliminated. 

 

The fact that Route 28 held on this long at all is amazing, given what some on this forum have been saying about it.

[Lawrence St]

5 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

https://transportation.westchestergov.com/images/stories/Schedules/fall21seasonalposter.pdf

The largest changes are on the 5 and 6 buses on Sundays, as they will now operate every 40 minutes combined (every 80 minutes individually) instead of every hour combined. The span on the 6 is more frequent.

Also notable is the BxM4C midday service (or what was left of it) being eliminated. The route will now be a rush-hour only service in the peak direction, with some early evening service. Although it may also be a matter of time before the evening service also gets eliminated. 

 

Not surprised, the BxM4c has lost a good chunk of its ridership from COVID, especially with the midday trips.

[R10 2952]

On 9/4/2021 at 8:59 AM, Lawrence St said:

Not surprised, the BxM4c has lost a good chunk of its ridership from COVID, especially with the midday trips.

Honestly, it lost a lot of ridership after the last cuts in 2009 or so.  It's basically a shell of what it used to be at this point.

[Lawrence St]

6 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

Honestly, it lost a lot of ridership after the last cuts in 2009 or so.  It's basically a shell of what it used to be at this point.

Ehh, I've taken it from Scarsdale to the City and it got filled up during the morning rush. During COVID tho, it was so empty they threw the 30 footers on it.

[B35 via Church]

4 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Honestly, it lost a lot of ridership after the last cuts in 2009 or so.  It's basically a shell of what it used to be at this point.

To this day, these are still my sentiments on that route....

They blatantly decimated the casual ridership the thing used to get, which I would argue rivaled, if not dwarfed the dedicated ridership that came from the "regulars" of the route.... It was never going to be a flourishing bus equivalent to the MNRR... You know how with some people, they need to touch an open flame to find out that it's hot? Well here we are with the (transformation of the) BxM4c in that regard....

 

[paulrivera]

11 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

To this day, these are still my sentiments on that route....

They blatantly decimated the casual ridership the thing used to get, which I would argue rivaled, if not dwarfed the dedicated ridership that came from the "regulars" of the route.... It was never going to be a flourishing bus equivalent to the MNRR... You know how with some people, they need to touch an open flame to find out that it's hot? Well here we are with the (transformation of the) BxM4c in that regard....

 

Yea, the BxM4C was much more attractive before they started chipping everything away. Started with the cutback from the Transcenter (which I still don't get; the Transcenter is a major hub for Bee-Line. It's like if Delta Airlines has a hub in Atlanta, and not having their flagship flights to LA leave from ATL, they would instead leave from a random place like Savannah), the Doomsday budget cuts that took the Wall Street runs away, then it continued with the $7.50 fare, the chipping away of transfer privileges, and of course the chipping away of midday service.

[67thAve]

On 9/4/2021 at 6:14 AM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

https://transportation.westchestergov.com/images/stories/Schedules/fall21seasonalposter.pdf

The largest changes are on the 5 and 6 buses on Sundays, as they will now operate every 40 minutes combined (every 80 minutes individually) instead of every hour combined. The span on the 6 is more frequent.

Also notable is the BxM4C midday service (or what was left of it) being eliminated. The route will now be a rush-hour only service in the peak direction, with some early evening service. Although it may also be a matter of time before the evening service also gets eliminated. 

 

I'll eat my hat if the route survives Westchester's bus network redesign in the near future.

That's how confident I am regarding it going the way of the dodo.

[jaf0519]

1 hour ago, 67thAve said:

I'll eat my hat if the route survives Westchester's bus network redesign in the near future.

That's how confident I am regarding it going the way of the dodo.

Speaking of Westchester’s bus redesign, I wonder when the will publicize the results. The website said Summer 2021, so maybe the end of this month, since that will be the technical end of summer?

[B35 via Church]

4 hours ago, paulrivera said:

Yea, the BxM4C was much more attractive before they started chipping everything away. Started with the cutback from the Transcenter (which I still don't get; the Transcenter is a major hub for Bee-Line. It's like if Delta Airlines has a hub in Atlanta, and not having their flagship flights to LA leave from ATL, they would instead leave from a random place like Savannah), the Doomsday budget cuts that took the Wall Street runs away, then it continued with the $7.50 fare, the chipping away of transfer privileges, and of course the chipping away of midday service.

All you have to do is put 2 & 2 together.... It was a sheer catering to the majority of their peak direction regular riders.

Daily commuters weren't the main ones taking BxM4c's from the Transcenter... Commuters seeking Lower Manhattan (on the BxM4c specifically anyway) were in a significant minority - compared to those seeking service no further south than 23rd... The exorbitant fare hike was a passive aggressive measure to thwart casual usage... Peak direction commuter express riders seldom, if ever, xfer to other buses... and Lastly, peak commuters would be working during the midday hrs....

[paulrivera]

10 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

It was a sheer catering to the majority of their peak direction regular riders.

I wonder how that's working out for them nowadays...

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, paulrivera said:

I wonder how that's working out for them nowadays...

Depends if we're talking about Bee Line themselves, or the selfish ass riders that didn't want casuals on "their" buses....

[Lex]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Depends if we're talking about Bee Line themselves, or the selfish ass riders that didn't want casuals on "their" buses....

If I were Liberty Lines, I'd either restore service to the TransCenter with a sensible fare structure or can the route and tell those asshats to get f*cked, as they don't truly care about public transportation. At the very least, doing the latter could allow for resource redistribution, while the former could possibly restore some of its prestige.

[40MntVrn]

9 hours ago, Lex said:

If I were Liberty Lines, I'd either restore service to the TransCenter with a sensible fare structure or can the route and tell those asshats to get f*cked, as they don't truly care about public transportation. At the very least, doing the latter could allow for resource redistribution, while the former could possibly restore some of its prestige.

Wouldn't this decision rest with WDOT? 

 

Totally agree that the route should end at the Transcenter--I can't imagine a cost or time savings so significant that would justify starting a route 5 minutes away. Seems like a way to persuade riders against the route if you ask me.

 

Always wanted to ask this here, can someone explain how this route directly competes with the Harlem Line? Aside from the prestige and frequency of Metro-North, this argument has always confused me. I know the routing is similar, but unless you're boarding the bus nearby 42nd, this route mostly eliminates the need to transfer to any other mode or route.

[paulrivera]

On 9/20/2021 at 1:08 AM, B35 via Church said:

Depends if we're talking about Bee Line themselves, or the selfish ass riders that didn't want casuals on "their" buses....

The 4C's ridership in general.

13 hours ago, 40MntVrn said:

Totally agree that the route should end at the Transcenter

Especially now that it's a peak direction only route.

13 hours ago, 40MntVrn said:

Seems like a way to persuade riders against the route if you ask me.

The 4C's ridership was being chipped away quite a bit over the years even without Bee-Line/WCDOT tinkering with it. But once you take away things like downtown service, free/discounted transfers, and midday service in a time where NYC was becoming more than just a "9-to-5" destination.... It's really hard to attract any new ridership, especially when the "old guard" doesn't feel like a "casual rider" "belongs" on that bus. When the old guard ages out, who's gonna be riding that bus?

[trainfan22]

I wonder if they will even bother getting replacements for the Suburban Orions and just use regular transit buses on the 4C. That would be a throwback to the PBL days in the 5 boros when they regularly ran hard seaters on express routes (this is well documented though photos).

 

 

They can't replace them with MCI or Prevosts as Bee Line simply can't afford to buy OTR coaches, that's why they got suburban Orions in the first place.

 

 

As for Express bus regulars not wanting casuals on their bus, that's definitely a thing lol. Especially on Brooklyn and Queens expresses, SI and BX is more causal friendly for lack of an better term. Just my experience. Its corny to be so snobbish over a form of public transportation but it is what is. Its still riding the bus, a person with a 20 year old Honda Accord is still higher tier of transportation than riding a brand new coach bus.

Edited September 22, 2021 by trainfan22

[R10 2952]

2 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

I wonder if they will even bother getting replacements for the Suburban Orions and just use regular transit buses on the 4C. That would be a throwback to the PBL days in the 5 boros when they regularly ran hard seaters on express routes (this is well documented though photos).

They can't replace them with MCI or Prevosts as Bee Line simply can't afford to buy OTR coaches, that's why they got suburban Orions in the first place.

As for Express bus regulars not wanting casuals on their bus, that's definitely a thing lol. Especially on Brooklyn and Queens expresses, SI and BX is more causal friendly for lack of an better term. Just my experience. Its corny to be so snobbish over a form of public transportation but it is what is. Its still riding the bus, a person with a 20 year old Honda Accord is still higher tier of transportation than riding a brand new coach bus.

If Bee Lines is that strapped for cash, perhaps they'll just replace the suburban O5s with... Gilligs.

God forbid, but at this point anything's possible.

[paulrivera]

2 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

SI and BX is more causal friendly for lack of an better term.

I can vouch for the Bronx being casual friendly. Everyone pretty much keeps to themselves on the bus with no hostility at all. Of all the scattered amount of times I've used an express bus, I've only encountered one snob who was worried about people jumping the line to board the bus.

[trainfan22]

9 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

If Bee Lines is that strapped for cash, perhaps they'll just replace the suburban O5s with... Gilligs.

God forbid, but at this point anything's possible.

They can afford New Flyers, they already have quite a few XDE artics and plan to purchase XDE40 local buses. They could get single door suburban XDE40s, I'd love to see an LF suburban bus in the NY Tri State area. 

[B35 via Church]

20 hours ago, paulrivera said:

The 4C's ridership in general.

...So, the selfish riders.

With those changes, whoever's left that's still utilizing the thing got the exclusivity they wanted... If they're that content paying the $7.50 for it, then more power to them.... They better take advantage of the benefit (as they may see it) while it (the route) lasts...

[R10 2952]

They'll probably be the first to throw a hissy fit if and when the route gets eliminated entirely.

Edited September 22, 2021 by R10 2952