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Bee Line redesign plan released


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2 hours ago, Lex said:

Let's not forget that this is the same person who complained about people piling onto Westchester's buses while the Bx30 basically carries air.

Let's also not forget that this is the same person who claimed that B35 ridership on 39th Street is higher than B35 ridership on Church Avenue.

And when was the last time YOU rode these routes?

 

4 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

That's just not true, you have people coming from Westchester and a good chunk stays on to Fordham, and also a lot of alighting on Boston Road too. Buses to Westchester can be SRO from Fordham and hold that all the way through the Bronx. Yes there'll be intra NYC ridership (even still given the Bx30 is still a lousy excuse of an alternative as it doesn't go to Fordham), but there's also a lot of riders going to Westchester. 

I don't know what buses you've been riding but they don't match up with typical ridership habits on the 'trunk'. 

What trips are you riding on? 

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9 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

There’s no reason for all 3 Boston Road routes to continue down to Fordham while the Bx30 is there now. You still maintain a subway connection, and the 62 still runs down there making Limited Stops.

And I’ve ridden the 60 and 61 for a long time, most Westchester residents use it to get to the subway. A lot of NYC riders use it for local service.

I get what you're trying to do with the 60/61/62, but the problem with your plan from an operational standpoint is that it would call for way too many 62's throughout the day.... Otherwise, you're not going to get much of any Bronxites seeking Westchester county to make their way to Dyre/Boston (for your truncated 60) for more service - including taking the Bx30 to Dyre....

You are making it out to be like there's a huge swathe of intra-Bronx ridership on the BL-60/61 that is such this problem (never mind making that declaration you made, like the new/current Bx30 is some panacea or something).... IDK if you're conflating the BL-60/61's intra-Bronx usage with their intra-county usage or what, but to have only the 62 running to Fordham to have 60's & 61's cut back to Dyre (5) simply goes too far left with it all... You've ridden the BL-60 & 61 for a long time? Great, and so have I - enough to unhesitatingly concur with what  @BM5 via Woodhaven stated in that last post of his, as far as ridership habits are concerned.... It's been the case with those routes for decades now....

Yes, the demand for service to/from White Plains on the BL-60 from/to The Bronx is quite high, but you are still putting too much stock into that individual ridership pattern with this plan of yours.... While it's imperative for both routes to serve The Bronx, and even though the demand for the BL-60 is higher than the BL-61, the BL-61 needs the Bronx more than the BL-60 does (re-read that as many times as you have to).... The BL-60 ending at Dyre (5) would screw too many inter-county riders.... There's no space to terminate the BL-60 & and the BL-61 around Dyre (5) anyway.... It's enough that the BL-55 ends at that station.... You are the same person that was quite defiant about BL-25 riders wanting the (2) & how no one wants the (5), so I find it realllllll interesting that you're putting that much stock/importance into Dyre (5) for folks currently taking BL-60's/61's....

Edited by B35 via Church
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34 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I get what you're trying to do with the 60/61/62, but the problem with your plan from an operational standpoint is that it would call for way too many 62's throughout the day.... Otherwise, you're not going to get much of any Bronxites seeking Westchester county to make their way to Dyre/Boston (for your truncated 60) for more service - including taking the Bx30 to Dyre....

You are making it out to be like there's a huge swathe of intra-Bronx ridership on the BL-60/61 that is such this problem (never mind making that declaration you made, like the new/current Bx30 is some panacea or something).... IDK if you're conflating the BL-60/61's intra-Bronx usage with their intra-county usage or what, but to have only the 62 running to Fordham to have 60's & 61's cut back to Dyre (5) simply goes too far left with it all... You've ridden the BL-60 & 61 for a long time? Great, and so have I - enough to unhesitatingly concur with what  @BM5 via Woodhaven stated in that last post of his, as far as ridership habits are concerned.... It's been the case with those routes for decades now....

Yes, the demand for service to/from White Plains on the BL-60 from/to The Bronx is quite high, but you are still putting too much stock into that individual ridership pattern with this plan of yours.... While it's imperative for both routes to serve The Bronx, and even though the demand for the BL-60 is higher than the BL-61, the BL-61 needs the Bronx more than the BL-60 does (re-read that as many times as you have to).... The BL-60 ending at Dyre (5) would screw too many inter-county riders.... There's no space to terminate the BL-60 & and the BL-61 around Dyre (5) anyway.... It's enough that the BL-55 ends at that station.... You are the same person that was quite defiant about BL-25 riders wanting the (2) & how no one wants the (5), so I find it realllllll interesting that you're putting that much stock/importance into Dyre (5) for folks currently taking BL-60's/61's....

Alright fine I’ll put them back to Fordham. And what are your thoughts on the other changes?

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Continuing on:

20: Unchanged, except Raceway buses now carry the 20E designation.

21: Unchanged, service expanded to run 8 AM-8 PM.

25: Certain trips will now skip the Cross County shopping center based on trips with the lowest boarding passengers as the 25X. Service on Woodlawn Rd would be eliminated, with the route remaining on Kimball Ave to McClean Ave.

26: Eliminated. Service partially replaced by route 55.

27: Replaced by route 81.

28: Routing unchanged, service span expansion.

30: Service in New Rochelle would be shifted to operate along Lincoln Ave.

32: Service along Buena Vista Ave eliminated, but school trips will remain serving that area.

34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39: Eliminated

40: Service north of White Plains eliminated. Select trips to 241st St remain.

41: Unchanged.

42: Service will now operate straight across Colonial Ave instead of Pelhamdale Ave. Service south of 241 St discontinued due to continuing problems with double parking and cars parked on corners.

43: Unchanged, except service along Bradhurst Av will be discontinued.

45: Eliminated; replaced by 8.

45Q: Eliminated.

More to come.

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9 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

IDK if you're conflating the BL-60/61's intra-Bronx usage with their intra-county usage or what....

Should read inter-county usage.

9 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Alright fine I’ll put them back to Fordham...

FTR & just to be clear, I don't entirely disagree with what you're trying to do there.... Instead of having the BL-61 running to Fordham, I wish there was a way for it to garner more intra-Westchester riders (because the BL-60's clearly got the BL-61 beat in that category)... Being that's not the case, the BL-61 needs as much inter-county usage as it can get... As for Boston rd. service between Fordham & White Plains., I'd say it needs more of a LTD/local type of setup along the BL-60 route, more than separate routes having a local/express setup b/w the 2 points (with the expresses running nonstop to White Plains after serving folks b/w Fordham & New Roc like the BL-62 does).... Kind of like how the BL-40/41 between Mt. Vernon & White Plains is setup.... I'd say the BL-60 needs a local/LTD type of setup more than the BL-40 does, but that's neither here nor there - running throughout the day, on top of it....

To sum it up, if the BL-61 had way more intra-Westchester ridership than it currently does, I would only have a 60 local & a 60 LTD running b/w Fordham & White Plains.... No thanks to how the highway network is laid out, but the BL-62's routing b/w New Roc & White Plains I just don't care for, to be perfectly honest...

9 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

....And what are your thoughts on the other changes?

Well, looking at this map (since you haven't finished your text explanations for these ideas yet).....

  • Can't tell what your 81 is supposed to be doing....
  • Yeah, agreed that the Redesign Plan's "109" & "111" may as well be one route running b/w Yonkers & Ossining (which you have named the 10)...
  • Yeah, the BL-12 at minimum needs to run to Mt. Kisco... The current Armonk shit is obviously not cutting it... Furthermore (albeit an old idea of mine), I still think the BL-12 should serve Manhattanville College & SUNY Purchase via that Anderson Hill rd. routing.... NB buses would backtrack to serve Manhattanville College, to then pan back up to serve SUNY Purchase, before running up to serve the Airport & Mt. Kisco... Basically what I'm saying here is that I would do away with the 12's routing along the Platinum Mile to get to Purchase st.... I would give the Platinum Mile to the BL-13; it doesn't really need the BL-12 partially supplementing it....
  • I wouldn't bother running the BL-3 past White Plains... SUNY Purchase does not need express service to Yonkers & The Bronx.... If not for having the BL-12 serve it, I would much rather have the (Redesign plan's proposed) BL-6 run out there, instead of the BL-3 - and it doesn't have to be every BL-6 trip either....
  • I also wouldn't bother extending the BL-55 from Cross County to Bronxville over the BL-26, but I would choose the BL-55 over the BL-26 if *something* absolutely had to
  • It looks like your 19 is bypassing the heart of White Plains, basically turning NB off Lake onto Broadway.... I can't agree with that... There is a need to connect that part of the BL-6 b/w Pleasantville & White Plains, specifically to the heart of White Plains... While a Harrison - Katonah route would make for a nice little coverage route, it would be DOA without a worthwhile ridership generator....
  • I would extend your 75 to MNRR Port Chester to do away with having 13's running to Rye... Not only that, but during the off-season (non-summers), I'd turn such a route into a loop, only terminating at MNRR Port Chester, instead of running down to Playland....
  • Not sure why the 30 stopped dead at Saw Mill River rd. like that for.....
  • Your 8/78 idea I find to be over the top.... You're turning the BL-78 into a BL-8 that would serve Ridge Hill & the Stew Leonard's - To cut the BL-8 back to Getty Square, to have that extended past MNRR Tuckahoe to phase out the entire BL-45? What need is there to have the BL-8 (of all routes) extended to Pelham Bay Park exactly? The BL-8 slogs along the current route as it is & to (apparently) have the BL-45 run out to Yonkers as an attempt to increase ridership, just reeks of desperation..... Furthermore, Nepperhan moves much better than that part of Saw Mill River rd (which is why they got the current BL-78 using it), so to have that extended 8 of yours even utilizing it makes little sense from that standpoint alone....
  • In comparison to the Redesign Plan's "66" & "110", it looks like you're making the 66 faster to make the "110" route (which you renamed 63) a little more attractive.... I'm more or less indifferent for the need for either of that to be done, as IDRC much for the Redesign Plan's "110" ....
  • I like driving that stretch of Midland av along Tibbetts Brook Park, but that's neither here nor there... While I do like your 9 idea on paper (which appears to act as a defacto express b/w Yonkers & Nereid (2)), I still wouldn't have your 9 and the BL-25 coexisting in the network.... I also wouldn't choose your 9 over the Redesign Plan's #101 between Nereid (2) & Downtown Yonkers...
  • Lastly for now, as it appears, I can't agree with trying to make the 17 (and the 15, for that matter) more attractive by having your 14 cut short to Downtown Peekskill during peak periods... The areas that the 14 serves are far more in demand than areas the 15 serves, for the 15 to be given the nod as the primary route along rt. 6 (that's also the problem I have with the Redesign Plan's #15)....
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58 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Well, looking at this map (since you haven't finished your text explanations for these ideas yet).....

  • Can't tell what your 81 is supposed to be doing....
  • The 81 is a combo of the former 27 and an extension to Tarrytown over the former Loop T routing. It's like the grasslands shuttle that they have in the redesign plan.
  • Yeah, agreed that the Redesign Plan's "109" & "111" may as well be one route running b/w Yonkers & Ossining (which you have named the 10)...
  • My ideas exactly, not sure why they decided to split it in two.
  • Yeah, the BL-12 at minimum needs to run to Mt. Kisco... The current Armonk shit is obviously not cutting it... Furthermore (albeit an old idea of mine), I still think the BL-12 should serve Manhattanville College & SUNY Purchase via that Anderson Hill rd. routing.... NB buses would backtrack to serve Manhattanville College, to then pan back up to serve SUNY Purchase, before running up to serve the Airport & Mt. Kisco... Basically what I'm saying here is that I would do away with the 12's routing along the Platinum Mile to get to Purchase st.... I would give the Platinum Mile to the BL-13; it doesn't really need the BL-12 partially supplementing it....
  • I agree with your points, but the backtracking the 12 has to do to serve Manhattanville is a tad-bit much if all trips run via Anderson Hill Rd. Then again, weekend service does run via Anderson Hill, so you do have a fair point. And I agree, cutting it from Mt. Kisco was a huge issue, you've essentially cut the only transfer people can take from Katonah to White Plains.
  • I wouldn't bother running the BL-3 past White Plains... SUNY Purchase does not need express service to Yonkers & The Bronx.... If not for having the BL-12 serve it, I would much rather have the (Redesign plan's proposed) BL-6 run out there, instead of the BL-3 - and it doesn't have to be every BL-6 trip either....
  • Point taken.
  • I also wouldn't bother extending the BL-55 from Cross County to Bronxville over the BL-26, but I would choose the BL-55 over the BL-26 if *something* absolutely had to
  • There's no other route that can cover that part of the 26 other then the 55 sadly. 
  • It looks like your 19 is bypassing the heart of White Plains, basically turning NB off Lake onto Broadway.... I can't agree with that... There is a need to connect that part of the BL-6 b/w Pleasantville & White Plains, specifically to the heart of White Plains... While a Harrison - Katonah route would make for a nice little coverage route, it would be DOA without a worthwhile ridership generator....
  • Nope, the 19 runs via the Transit Center with specific trips ending in the Transit Center from either Katonah or Harrison.
  • I would extend your 75 to MNRR Port Chester to do away with having 13's running to Rye... Not only that, but during the off-season (non-summers), I'd turn such a route into a loop, only terminating at MNRR Port Chester, instead of running down to Playland....
  • Not sure why the 30 stopped dead at Saw Mill River rd. like that for.....
  • It's not dead stopped there, illustrator was having an issue with the layers. It still runs to Getty Sq.
  • Your 8/78 idea I find to be over the top.... You're turning the BL-78 into a BL-8 that would serve Ridge Hill & the Stew Leonard's - To cut the BL-8 back to Getty Square, to have that extended past MNRR Tuckahoe to phase out the entire BL-45? What need is there to have the BL-8 (of all routes) extended to Pelham Bay Park exactly? The BL-8 slogs along the current route as it is & to (apparently) have the BL-45 run out to Yonkers as an attempt to increase ridership, just reeks of desperation..... Furthermore, Nepperhan moves much better than that part of Saw Mill River rd (which is why they got the current BL-78 using it), so to have that extended 8 of yours even utilizing it makes little sense from that standpoint alone....
  • Actually, the new 8 runs via Nepperhan Ave to Tuckahoe Rd like the current 78 does. The current section of the 8 on Walnut is now a loop - the 33.
  • In comparison to the Redesign Plan's "66" & "110", it looks like you're making the 66 faster to make the "110" route (which you renamed 63) a little more attractive.... I'm more or less indifferent for the need for either of that to be done, as IDRC much for the Redesign Plan's "110" ....
  • I like driving that stretch of Midland av along Tibbetts Brook Park, but that's neither here nor there... While I do like your 9 idea on paper (which appears to act as a defacto express b/w Yonkers & Nereid (2)), I still wouldn't have your 9 and the BL-25 coexisting in the network.... I also wouldn't choose your 9 over the Redesign Plan's #101 between Nereid (2) & Downtown Yonkers...
  • Lastly for now, as it appears, I can't agree with trying to make the 17 (and the 15, for that matter) more attractive by having your 14 cut short to Downtown Peekskill during peak periods... The areas that the 14 serves are far more in demand than areas the 15 serves, for the 15 to be given the nod as the primary route along rt. 6 (that's also the problem I have with the Redesign Plan's #15)....

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Alright, finishing off the changes (plus some changes to previous mentioned routes):

52: Unchanged

55: Rerouted from Cross County to Bronxville replacing parts of the 26.

60: Fordham to White Plains, except no stops are made between Pelham Pkwy & Fordham, and limited stops are made between Pelham Pkwy and Boston Rd Plaza. Southbound Weekend service alternates between New Rochelle & Fordham.

61: Fordham to Port Chester. Service in Port Chester will now remain on Boston Post Road and will not serve Willet Ave, except for select rush hour trips.

62: Fordham to White Plains Express. Makes drop-off only stops in The Bronx.

63: Rerouted. Operates between Scarsdale and New Rochelle over former #66 routing via Grand Blvd.

66: Rerouted. Dobbs Ferry RR to White Plains, partially replaces the 63 to White Plains via Drake Rd.

78: Extended to Tuckahoe RR.

8: Service will no longer serve Walnut Hill. Service will now operate along Yonkers Ave between Elm St & Walnut St. Service will now use articulated buses.

10: Replaces the 8 south of Getty Square. Service now runs between Riverdale Line and Ossining.

14: Every change except for the rush hour extension to Cortlandt Town Ctr will remain. It will run to Cortlandt Town Center all times.

17: Extended to Jefferson Valley Mall, skips Cortlandt Town Center.

81: West Westchester Commuter. Combines the 27 with former Loop T, creating a new commuter express service.

 

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5 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Alright, finishing off the changes (plus some changes to previous mentioned routes):

52: Unchanged

55: Rerouted from Cross County to Bronxville replacing parts of the 26.

60: Fordham to White Plains, except no stops are made between Pelham Pkwy & Fordham, and limited stops are made between Pelham Pkwy and Boston Rd Plaza. Southbound Weekend service alternates between New Rochelle & Fordham.

61: Fordham to Port Chester. Service in Port Chester will now remain on Boston Post Road and will not serve Willet Ave, except for select rush hour trips.

62: Fordham to White Plains Express. Makes drop-off only stops in The Bronx.

63: Rerouted. Operates between Scarsdale and New Rochelle over former #66 routing via Grand Blvd.

66: Rerouted. Dobbs Ferry RR to White Plains, partially replaces the 63 to White Plains via Drake Rd.

78: Extended to Tuckahoe RR.

8: Service will no longer serve Walnut Hill. Service will now operate along Yonkers Ave between Elm St & Walnut St. Service will now use articulated buses.

10: Replaces the 8 south of Getty Square. Service now runs between Riverdale Line and Ossining.

14: Every change except for the rush hour extension to Cortlandt Town Ctr will remain. It will run to Cortlandt Town Center all times.

17: Extended to Jefferson Valley Mall, skips Cortlandt Town Center.

81: West Westchester Commuter. Combines the 27 with former Loop T, creating a new commuter express service.

 

31: Getty Square / Walnut St Hill Loop. Operates from Getty Square to Getty Square via Walnut & Elm St in both counter clockwise and clockwise directions.

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  • 6 months later...
Quote

Alright, finishing off the changes (plus some changes to previous mentioned routes):

52: Unchanged

55: Rerouted from Cross County to Bronxville replacing parts of the 26.

60: Fordham to White Plains, except no stops are made between Pelham Pkwy & Fordham, and limited stops are made between Pelham Pkwy and Boston Rd Plaza. Southbound Weekend service alternates between New Rochelle & Fordham.

61: Fordham to Port Chester. Service in Port Chester will now remain on Boston Post Road and will not serve Willet Ave, except for select rush hour trips.

62: Fordham to White Plains Express. Makes drop-off only stops in The Bronx.

63: Rerouted. Operates between Scarsdale and New Rochelle over former #66 routing via Grand Blvd.

66: Rerouted. Dobbs Ferry RR to White Plains, partially replaces the 63 to White Plains via Drake Rd.

78: Extended to Tuckahoe RR.

8: Service will no longer serve Walnut Hill. Service will now operate along Yonkers Ave between Elm St & Walnut St. Service will now use articulated buses.

10: Replaces the 8 south of Getty Square. Service now runs between Riverdale Line and Ossining.

14: Every change except for the rush hour extension to Cortlandt Town Ctr will remain. It will run to Cortlandt Town Center all times.

17: Extended to Jefferson Valley Mall, skips Cortlandt Town Center.

81: West Westchester Commuter. Combines the 27 with former Loop T, creating a new commuter express service.

 

31: Getty Square / Walnut St Hill Loop. Operates from Getty Square to Getty Square via Walnut & Elm St in both counter clockwise and clockwise directions.

 

I like this version better but here's what I'll do 

1: Tarrytown- 242st

2: Executive Bvld - 242st

3: WC Airport ( weekdays only)/ White Plains- 242st

4/4ltd: DobbsFerry - Fordham extended north/ south bound terms

5: entended to White Plains 

6: Yonkers- WC airport

7: stay as proposed

8: extended to Eastcher

9: Odell av - 238st via Tibbets brook

10/11: stay the same 

12: Portchester- Katonah via WC airport

13: stay as proposed but goes to playland 

14/14ltd: WCC - Peekskill 

15: proposed servivce extended to Katonah 

16: Service extended to Croton Falls

17 stay the same  

19: keep as proposed

20: stays as the original

21: White Plains - Norwood 

25: stay as proposed

26: Bronxville extended to 233st

30: stays the same 

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2nd part of what I'd do

32: Yonkers - 242st via Rumsey Rd

34: Hartsdale - Tarrytown

39: Hartsdale - DoobsFerry

40: White Plains - Norwood via 241st/Mclean Av

41: White Plains - Bedford Park via 241st

42: NewRohelle - 233st (end at 238st on weekends)

43: WCC - 241st

45: stays as orignal

50/51: Portchester - Dyre Av via Pelham dale/ S Columbus Av  

52: stays the same

53: Mount Vernon - Bronxville via W 3rd st/ Pondfield Av

60: Keep as proposed

61: Keep as Proposed

62: Keep as original

64: extended to NewRochelle to replace 45q use Microtrans on sundays

65: replaced w/ MicroTrans 

67: Hartsdale- RidgeHill via central av / fort hill rd

75/91: stays the same 

78: extended to Eastchester sq

81: Ridge Hill- White Plains via I-87/I-287

more to be listed

 

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last part of what to do

100: DobbsFerry - Ossining

101:Yonkers - Washington Hts Bus station via Mclean Av/ Inwood 207st 

103: Keep as proposed

104: Keep as proposed 

105: Keep as Proposed

106: Ridge Hill- 238st via Kimball av

107: extended to Gunhill

108: extended to Portchester via Boston Post Rd

110: keep as proposed 

111: WMC - Ossining via Rt117

112: Keep as proposed 

116 MountVernon - PelhamBayPark via 3rd Av

118 Eastsq - Washington Hts Bus station via MountVernon

Keep all MicroTransit Zones except Yonkers parts of northern Westchester (31 will be replaced w/ MT but 18 will be repalced 15)

Westchester- Manhatan Services 

WM1 Getty SQ- So.Ferry via 2nd/1st Avenue

WM2: Mount Vernon - NYU via 5th Avenue 

WM3: WCC- Washington Hts Bus Station via Sprin Brook/Central Ave

WM4: Replaces Bxm4c extended to WhitePlains TransCtr

WM5: Replaces Bxm4d via  I-87/5th and Madison Avenue to 23st

Use Prevost Buses for bus Service to Manhatan price them at $4.50 

 

 

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15 hours ago, 40 to 241st said:

2nd part of what I'd do

32: Yonkers - 242st via Rumsey Rd

34: Hartsdale - Tarrytown

39: Hartsdale - DoobsFerry

40: White Plains - Norwood via 241st/Mclean Av

41: White Plains - Bedford Park via 241st

42: NewRohelle - 233st (end at 238st on weekends)

43: WCC - 241st

45: stays as orignal

50/51: Portchester - Dyre Av via Pelham dale/ S Columbus Av  

52: stays the same

53: Mount Vernon - Bronxville via W 3rd st/ Pondfield Av

60: Keep as proposed

61: Keep as Proposed

62: Keep as original

64: extended to NewRochelle to replace 45q use Microtrans on sundays

65: replaced w/ MicroTrans 

67: Hartsdale- RidgeHill via central av / fort hill rd

75/91: stays the same 

78: extended to Eastchester sq

81: Ridge Hill- White Plains via I-87/I-287

more to be listed

 

77: keep the same

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