What improvements does the Staten Island Railway need to work on?

[Kexpress]

Question is... HOW.

And:

Where would the line tunnel under?

What lines would go there?

Where would the line go in New Jersey?

Is it cost-effective?

Would people ride it?

Will it connect Lower Manhattan?

Will the construction have a huge impact on the communities it passes through?

 

Well the MNRR has a tunnel connection with the LIRR and it can through to LIRR tunnel and then the NJT commuter Rail line through NJ then cross the Arthur Kill Lift Bridge and get into Staten Island,NJT is part of MNRR since it runs in NJ with Amtrak and NJT.

[MTR Admiralty]

Well the MNRR has a tunnel connection with the LIRR and it can through to LIRR tunnel and then the NJT commuter Rail line through NJ then cross the Arthur Kill Lift Bridge and get into Staten Island,NJT is part of MNRR since it runs in NJ with Amtrak and NJT.

 

What tunnel connection are you talking about???

MNRR cannot run on LIRR trackage (I think it has something to do with the electric current in the third rail). Your plans are just too idealistic. I believe that Islanders need a subway connection more than a commuter rail that goes into New Jersey then Midtown...

There are many trips between the Island and Lower Manhattan, your commuter rail solution does not address this issue.

[7LineFan]

MNRR cannot run on LIRR trackage (I think it has something to do with the electric current in the third rail). Your plans are just too idealistic.

 

It's the type of shoes that contact the third rail. LIRR is top-contact I believe, and MNRR is bottom contact. They're not compatible with each other.

 

And I agree with MTR. In a perfect world this would probably work, but in this world you have to worry about impact and cost and things like that. It's simply not cost-effective at this time. Even in the future it would be simpler to connect the to Staten Island rather than build a whole slurry of commuter rail connections, even if Staten Island experiences a population boom.

[MTR Admiralty]

It's the type of shoes that contact the third rail. LIRR is top-contact I believe, and MNRR is bottom contact. They're not compatible with each other.

 

And I agree with MTR. In a perfect world this would probably work, but in this world you have to worry about impact and cost and things like that. It's simply not cost-effective at this time. Even in the future it would be simpler to connect the to Staten Island rather than build a whole slurry of commuter rail connections, even if Staten Island experiences a population boom.

 

Yeah, it is the third rail contact issue. If this issue could be solved, the East Side Access wouldn't call for construction of an entire new station.

 

Now, Kexpress...if an Islander has three options to Manhattan, which would he pick?

Local Bus or SIR to St George, Ferry, then subway to final destination

Express bus, maybe transfer to subway to final destination

"New Jersey Transit/Metro North"?

 

While it is still inconvenient, the Islanders would choose to take the first two options. Why? Simple, commuter fares are usually according to distance. The further you are away from your destination, the more you pay. I understand that MNRR uses a zone based fare structure... the question would be, where would Staten Island be placed on the zone map? It has to past New Jersey. And it is time consuming.

 

Additionally, even if the MNRR is compatible with LIRR and NJT, would NJT freely allow MNRR to share trackage? How will profits be shared? It is not an easy task. Earlier last century, due to Dual Contracts, there were a lot of issues regarding fare collection and profit sharing between the IRT and the BMT over the Astoria and Flushing lines.

 

IF, a tunnel is to be ever built, the 2 destinations that I suggest would make sense is:

1. Connection to the LIRR Bay Ridge Branch, provided that it will be converted to mass transit use

2. Tunnel to Lower Manhattan that could connect with

A. IND 8th Avenue Local (WTC)

B. The SAS Phase 4

C. BMT Nassau Street Line

 

Please note these ideas are idealistic as well, but these plans could actually help Staten Islanders more compared to a CR plan, if ever developed.

[Kexpress]

IF, a tunnel is to be ever built, the 2 destinations that I suggest would make sense is:

1. Connection to the LIRR Bay Ridge Branch, provided that it will be converted to mass transit use

2. Tunnel to Lower Manhattan that could connect with

A. IND 8th Avenue Local (WTC)

B. The SAS Phase 4

C. BMT Nassau Street Line

 

Please note these ideas are idealistic as well, but these plans could actually help Staten Islanders more compared to a CR plan, if ever developed.

 

1. The LIRR Bay Ridge Branch can always be converted to Mass Transit Use.

2. The tunnel connection to lower manhattan will have to go through brooklyn or NJ then get to Lower Manhattan.

[7LineFan]

2. The tunnel connection to lower manhattan will have to go through brooklyn or NJ then get to Lower Manhattan.

 

No, it won't. It can cross under the bay to get to Manhattan. Basically taking the SI Ferry route underground, and then connecting with the , , or . I think that would actually be a good idea, providing Staten Islanders with direct subway service into Manhattan, but there's always the issues of money, time, and environmental impact now that it's under the bay.

[Kexpress]

No, it won't. It can cross under the bay to get to Manhattan. Basically taking the SI Ferry route underground, and then connecting with the , , or . I think that would actually be a good idea, providing Staten Islanders with direct subway service into Manhattan, but there's always the issues of money, time, and environmental impact now that it's under the bay.

 

That would be too long and to get from Manhattan to Staten Island it would have to go through New Jersey or Brooklyn then go to the Staten Island like i said before.

[MTR Admiralty]

1. The LIRR Bay Ridge Branch can always be converted to Mass Transit Use.

2. The tunnel connection to lower manhattan will have to go through brooklyn or NJ then get to Lower Manhattan.

 

1. While it still can be connected to mass transit use, it still cannot provide a direct one seat ride to Lower Manhattan. Prospective passengers MUST transfer at the hypothetical stations of 8th Avenue, New Utrecht, McDonald Ave, East 16th Street, Brooklyn College to existing subway lines for access to Lower Manhattan. I do not think that it would be a good plan for them, if it means another transfer.

2. NO. Hypothetically speaking, it is a deep bay tunnel (akin to Transbay in SF) connecting St George to Lower Manhattan. However, as what 7LineFan pointed out, it will be expensive and will have extensive environmental impacts. However, compared to your commuter rail plan, the cost-effectiveness, expected ridership, mobility and service quality are higher for the deep bay tunnel plan.

[MTR Admiralty]

That would be too long and to get from Manhattan to Staten Island it would have to go through New Jersey or Brooklyn then go to the Staten Island like i said before.

 

NO

Converting the ferry to tunnel.

In other words, building a tunnel from Lower Manhattan straight to St George without passing any part of Brooklyn or New Jersey. This is pure English.

[Kexpress]

NO

Converting the ferry to tunnel.

In other words, building a tunnel from Lower Manhattan straight to St George without passing any part of Brooklyn or New Jersey. This is pure English.

 

NO That would be too long and it would have to go through Brooklyn or N.J to get to Manhattan because we need other stops and the ride should not be too long.

[MTR Admiralty]

NO That would be too long and it would have to go through Brooklyn or N.J to get to Manhattan because we need other stops and the ride should not be too long.

 

HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT THE LINE DOES NOT PASS THROUGH BROOKLYN OR NEW JERSEY AND NOR DOES IT NEED TO PASS THROUGH THEM.

The purpose of proposing a cross bay tunnel is to lessen the travel time.

Think, currently, SIR riders to Manhattan MUST disembark at St George, take the ferry then take the subway. What a hassle. If this plan ever reaches fruition, the same rider could connect DIRECTLY with Downtown or Midtown since it offers a one seat ride connection. Why do we need a bunch of extra stops? The route will travel under the bay, roughly the same alignment as the Staten Island Ferry. Why would we build extra stops? So fish could use it as well?? The ride between the two stations WILL be long, however, the riders benefit from it in the long run. And there would be more patronage.

Think, most road based transit services coming in and out of Staten Island either use the bridge to Brooklyn or route in New Jersey. This tunnel will call for a direct link without having to deal with going into Brooklyn or New Jersey.

There are notable LONG crossings:

A very notable example is the Jamaica Bay crossing from Howard Beach to Broad Channel is pretty damn long. Yet, many people use it, because it benefits the users well. The riders could have took the LIRR to Jamaica and board the subway, however the saves money and time.

In Istanbul, Turkey they are currently building the Marmaray, a tunnel under the Sea of Marmara, connecting the rail networks on the European and Asian sides of the city.

And what about your proposal??? It only serves MIDTOWN. What about Downtown? There should be MORE stops in Manhattan in your plan. Your plan does not give riders enough flexibility.

[metsfan]

Going through NJ makes more sense because the rails are all ready there.

 

- A

[Kexpress]

You know if there going to be a subway going to Manhattan,which will be a long ride they should put a Train ferry service,what Im meaning by that is the Train can go on the ferry and be on the tracks and it will make sence because they were railroads that used Train ferry service.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_ferry

[7LineFan]

You know if there going to be a subway going to Manhattan,which will be a long ride they should put a Train ferry service,what Im meaning by that is the Train can go on the ferry and be on the tracks and it will make sence because they were railroads that used Train ferry service.

 

Back then it would have made sense, but there are no aboveground subway lines in lower Manhattan, nor is there the space to build even a tunnel portal. It would be much simpler to dig a tunnel straight across the harbor than to dig new tunnels in Manhattan, clear a space for the portal, extend the tracks to the waterfront on both sides, and buy new (most likely custom built) ferries for this service, and then operate the ferries.

[MTR Admiralty]

You know if there going to be a subway going to Manhattan,which will be a long ride they should put a Train ferry service,what Im meaning by that is the Train can go on the ferry and be on the tracks and it will make sence because they were railroads that used Train ferry service.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_ferry

 

That could work for St George, what about Manhattan???? or other places???

The best solution for now is to extend the HBLR in Staten Island.

 

@Metsfan: although the tracks are in place in NJ, they must be able to service the destinations properly in NY.

There are many issues involving existing ROW. Is it abandoned? Is it freight? How will it connect to Manhattan? Will it affect other lines?

While it helps the people in Jersey, the Islanders probably want a direct connection to Manhattan without having to pass NJ.

[Cait Sith]

I really dont understand why LIRR & MNRR would even be there. This is not a demand from passengers

 

NJT is the only feasible thing at this very moment. If there was, like mentioned earlier in this thread, a population spike in Staten Island, then fine, build the tunnels for MNRR & LIRR. And 7LineFan Is right, They use two different sets of track & two different sets of 3rd Rail / rail shoes is used for those lines, so this so called plan wouldnt work on Staten Island either way.

 

Now, in terms of getting to a destination faster, they should rebuild the North/West shore lines but making a connection with SIR, and many of the mainstream bus routes along that line.

 

If you still intend of thinking/wanting a LIRR/MNRR connection and an SIR connection to the , send an email to the MTA about your thoughts, and let us know what they think.

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Y2Julio]

I love how you just simply say OH BUILD A TUNNEL. Do you even know the engineering hurdles that would have to be dealt with to even do something like this? My uncle is an engineer and the company he works for is working on the subway tunnels and he said building a tunnel under the narrows is not feasible and if they were to do it, the MTA wouldn't be able to recoup the costs.

[Cait Sith]

I love how you just simply say OH BUILD A TUNNEL. Do you even know the engineering hurdles that would have to be dealt with to even do something like this? My uncle is an engineer and the company he works for is working on the subway tunnels and he said building a tunnel under the narrows is not feasible and if they were to do it, the MTA wouldn't be able to recoup the costs.

 

Thank you so much.

[MTR Admiralty]

Yeah... it really is not feasible...

The only short term improvement is, extended the HBLR.

How about a PATH line into Staten Island, could that be done?

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[MTR Admiralty]

I think the first thing the MTA should do is:

Increase headway on the SIR.

Currently, from the timetable, there is a 30 min headway, on average. The headway could be decreased to 15 min or 20 min. More trains are needed though.

It really sucks to have a 30 minute headway during regular hours. People really do not want to wait minutes for the train just to get from one side of SI to another.

[Forest Glen]

Truth be told, the trains are rarely full. Plus, the train's schedule has to match the ferry's schedule or it would be a waste.

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[MTR Admiralty]

I agree with Forest Glen...

 

Reinstituting the North Shore Line would really help. I saw the bus map and there are a lot of bus lines in that sector. Of course, the best thing would be extending the HBLR into Staten Island and follow the NSL alignment to St George. This will allow for a connection to the SIR and multiple bus routes. That is short term.

 

Now for long term solutions...

The problem with Staten Island is its overall geography. The only feasible direct route into Manhattan is still the water route. Land routes to Manhattan will continue to past thru either New Jersey or Brooklyn. We need to focus on minimising those bypass routes. We also want to focus on minimising transfers. Express bus was desirable as it offered for a number of people, a one seat connection. However it is expensive. The buses into Brooklyn for a transfer to the subway in Brooklyn is time consuming and the ferry is also time consuming. As we all know, a trans-bay tunnel between Manhattan and Staten Island is just as good as impossible.

Our aim should be:

-A journey with the least transfers that is economically efficient, rapid and easy to construct.