Ideas to merge or reduce any low usage MTA Bus lines?

[UlmerPark B6]

AGREED! The B23 is underutilized, and merging with the B67 would solve that.

Same with the B37, which is not necessary.

 

Also, how bout extending the B71 bus on Eastern Parkway to Utica Avenue?

 

And part of me always wanted to see the B3 follow the B64's route after the depot to Bay Ridge, giving Brooklyn a full crosstown ride from the Eastern-most point of Brooklyn to the Western-most.

 

Yes, I would love a B3 and B64 merge but the problem might be that the rider population won't be evenly distrubuted.

[jacsnyy]

Then how bout running 3 or 4 B3 buses per hour past the Depot, like they do with the B3 on the other side in Bergen Beach, riding buses down East 73rd Street to Avenue X? Half terminate at Ulmer Park depot, and half continue via the B64 to 4th avenue.

[TeeLow]

Okay, it seems like you guys defeated me again...................:eek:

I got a better one. Merge B37 and B63. Cancel the B37, and wouldn't riders rather opt to take the B63 or the train.

 

AND

 

A B67 and B23 merge where you have B103 serving the area on Cortelyou Rd and B67 extended to New Utrect Avenue.

 

I could see a merging of the 37 and the 63 but maybe move the bus over to 4th Ave so that passengers on 3rd Ave only have to walk 1 block instead of two. The southern terminal for 37/63 is the same so no problem there. Going north they could turn the bus west at Atlantic Ave then north at Smith and terminate at Livingston or Fulton. 37/63 is doable.

 

B23/67 is a no brainer. Even the MTA can see that! lol

 

AGREED! The B23 is underutilized, and merging with the B67 would solve that.

Same with the B37, which is not necessary.

 

Also, how bout extending the B71 bus on Eastern Parkway to Utica Avenue?

 

And part of me always wanted to see the B3 follow the B64's route after the depot to Bay Ridge, giving Brooklyn a full crosstown ride from the Eastern-most point of Brooklyn to the Western-most.

 

Not a good idea extending B71 on Eastern Pkwy for two reasons.

 

1) It can't run in the service road cause it's too narrow and UPS/Fed Ex/Oil trucks are usually blocking traffic thru there. Putting a bus on the main road basically forces traffic to go around it and with only 2 lanes westbound btn Buffalo and Brooklyn Museum :eek: Between the rush hours may not be so bad but still hella inconvenient on the only rapid east/west traffic mover in central Brooklyn. Also, where to terminate? Utica has the B14 and 17 there already along with a hundred dollar vans jamming up what little space there is. Would rather see 71 go south on Flatbush and turn east on Empire Blvd and head over to Utica. Always wondered why there wasn't a thru bus along that block

 

2) It would be duplicating the B45 route on St Johns

 

Then how bout running 3 or 4 B3 buses per hour past the Depot, like they do with the B3 on the other side in Bergen Beach, riding buses down East 73rd Street to Avenue X? Half terminate at Ulmer Park depot, and half continue via the B64 to 4th avenue.

 

Heck of an extension from 25th Ave to 4th Ave dontcha think? MTA will see it as unecessary with B64 already there and running every 10 mins :confused:

[jacsnyy]

I see what you're saying about the B71.

With the B3/64 merge, I see it this way. It is impossible to get from Staten Island to Bergen Beach, Kings Plaza, Marine Park on one fare using the S53 or the S79's terminus. The only way would be if you start your trip right at the ferry terminal and then take the subway, but from lets say the Staten Island Mall to Kings Plaza, you need two fares. S79 to B64 to B3, or S79 to B8 to B41.

[UlmerPark B6]

I could see a merging of the 37 and the 63 but maybe move the bus over to 4th Ave so that passengers on 3rd Ave only have to walk 1 block instead of two. The southern terminal for 37/63 is the same so no problem there. Going north they could turn the bus west at Atlantic Ave then north at Smith and terminate at Livingston or Fulton. 37/63 is doable.

 

B23/67 is a no brainer. Even the MTA can see that! lol

 

 

 

37/63, there's too many people on 5th Avenue.

[TeeLow]

I see what you're saying about the B71.

With the B3/64 merge, I see it this way. It is impossible to get from Staten Island to Bergen Beach, Kings Plaza, Marine Park on one fare using the S53 or the S79's terminus. The only way would be if you start your trip right at the ferry terminal and then take the subway, but from lets say the Staten Island Mall to Kings Plaza, you need two fares. S79 to B64 to B3, or S79 to B8 to B41.

 

In good economic times I could see MTA doing it. Lots of political clout along that B3/64 corridor. But you know how Transit is trying to tighten the screws. But I agree...extending the 3 over to 4th Ave does service both sides of South Brooklyn and is a pretty decent idea

 

37/63, there's too many people on 5th Avenue.

You think the route should stay on 5th Ave? That tiny street? 5th Ave is fine once you get in the vicinity of Gleason but north of the cemetary into Park Slope and south of Sunset Park is murder! 4th Ave has 3 lanes. Wouldn't that be better? But you out there OTR so you might have better insight

[Shortline Bus]

In good economic times I could see MTA doing it. Lots of political clout along that B3/64 corridor. But you know how Transit is trying to tighten the screws. But I agree...extending the 3 over to 4th Ave does service both sides of South Brooklyn and is a pretty decent idea

 

 

You think the route should stay on 5th Ave? That tiny street? 5th Ave is fine once you get in the vicinity of Gleason but north of the cemetary into Park Slope and south of Sunset Park is murder! 4th Ave has 3 lanes. Wouldn't that be better? But you out there OTR so you might have better insight

 

 

Replies to recent proposals:

 

1) Merge the B3 and B64

Why some of you suggesting a merger of the B3 and B64? The back up traffic & double parked cars and trucks along Avenue U mainly between McDonald and Nostrand. The B3 has terrible bunching problems at times especially afternoon rush and weekend afternoons(shoppers going to Kings Plaza)

A better idea IMO is to extend the B3 down Cropsey to Stillwell Terminal to help out the B82.

1b)The B64 should stay a separte route for now but maybe extended down to Shore Road to avoid the 'dangerous and illegal left turn westbound at 5th Ave and 86th Street.

1c)For those of you who want a bus route connecting SW Brooklyn(Bay Ridge area)to SE Brooklyn(Bergen Beach/Kings Plaza)a better idea is to extend and restructure the B9 or B4 routes. Maybe have the B9 stay on 4th Avenue(Southbound)and 5th Avenue(Northbound)and terminate at 86th/4th instead of Shore Road.

 

2)Combine the B37 and B63-IMO not a good idea. The B37 just needs overnight/late evening service canned. Contray to popular belief the B37 actually gets good ridership weekdays especially those riders from Bay Ridge/Sunset Park who work in Downtown Brooklyn & dont want to use the subway.("R" train)

Plus many 'mom & pop' and small department stores and their customers along 5th Avenue would be furious since majority of their customers does use the B63. Plus 5th Avenue is only one block from the 4th Ave subway line and is not totally redudant yet it provides 24/7 transit service for ADA (disabled)riders between Bay Ridge & Staten Island(via S-53 and S79 transfer)and Downtown Brooklyn.

 

My final idea about the B37, B63 and "R" train.. IMO maintain the B63 as a 24/7 service along 5th Avenue, extend the "R" shuttle trains late night to Whitehall Street and scrap late night B37 service with last buses arriving in Bay Ridge around 12 Midnight daily.

[TeeLow]

Replies to recent proposals:

 

1) Merge the B3 and B64

Why some of you suggesting a merger of the B3 and B64? The back up traffic & double parked cars and trucks along Avenue U mainly between McDonald and Nostrand. The B3 has terrible bunching problems at times especially afternoon rush and weekend afternoons(shoppers going to Kings Plaza)

 

Not really a merger of B3 and 64...more of an extension of the B3 over to 4th Ave to make a direct one fare connection with the SI routes and no change to the 64. In tight times like these it's a bit redundant but maybe loop a 3 thru there 3 times an hour as part of the regular run

 

A better idea IMO is to extend the B3 down Cropsey to Stillwell Terminal to help out the B82.

1b)The B64 should stay a separte route for now but maybe extended down to Shore Road to avoid the 'dangerous and illegal left turn westbound at 5th Ave and 86th Street.

Truth to tell B82 doesn't need help btn the Parkway and Stillwell. Its a relatively short run and if they need more buses just terminate all 82s at Stillwell

 

1c)For those of you who want a bus route connecting SW Brooklyn(Bay Ridge area)to SE Brooklyn(Bergen Beach/Kings Plaza)a better idea is to extend and restructure the B9 or B4 routes. Maybe have the B9 stay on 4th Avenue(Southbound)and 5th Avenue(Northbound)and terminate at 86th/4th instead of Shore Road.

You ever rode the B9 along 60th St or Ave M thru Midwood? Those buses stay packed with lil ol ladies and their aisle blocking carts and school kids. Now you wanna push on another 15-20 people from Bay St on there going to the Plaza who don't really want a grand tour of Midwood? B4 is an idea though. BRP (75th St) is a good e/w street to throw on another 3-4 buses, it wouldn't have to change it's regular route and it's a snap to extend it to the Plaza via Knapp St to Ave U. Nice

 

2)Combine the B37 and B63-IMO not a good idea. The B37 just needs overnight/late evening service canned. Contray to popular belief the B37 actually gets good ridership weekdays especially those riders from Bay Ridge/Sunset Park who work in Downtown Brooklyn & dont want to use the subway.("R" train)

Plus many 'mom & pop' and small department stores and their customers along 5th Avenue would be furious since majority of their customers does use the B63. Plus 5th Avenue is only one block from the 4th Ave subway line and is not totally redudant yet it provides 24/7 transit service for ADA (disabled)riders between Bay Ridge & Staten Island(via S-53 and S79 transfer)and Downtown Brooklyn.

If push came to shove and Transit said either 37 or 63 had to go more than likely it would be 37 that goes. It would make sense then to move the 63 over to 4th so the 37 riders won't have to walk 2 blocks over. People 5 blocks from an R station would rather take a bus especially the elderly and handicapped. The shoppers on 5th Ave might grumble a bit having to walk over a block but they'll do it. It makes for a faster trip on 4th with more traffic lanes and less impact from double parking

 

My final idea about the B37, B63 and "R" train.. IMO maintain the B63 as a 24/7 service along 5th Avenue, extend the "R" shuttle trains late night to Whitehall Street and scrap late night B37 service with last buses arriving in Bay Ridge around 12 Midnight daily.

Definitely like the late night R extension to Whitehall especially with the new connection to the South Ferry Station. Layover is no problem with the center track there

[Shortline Bus]

Tee i generally agree with most of your ideas with Western Brooklyn bus revisions. The only one i disagree with is extending the B3.

[TeeLow]

Tee i generally agree with most of your ideas with Western Brooklyn bus revisions. The only one i disagree with is extending the B3.

 

Thanks

 

I doubt if the 3 thing would ever happen. But that B4 suggestion you made was on the money

[Shortline Bus]

TEE i know in years past, homeowners, probably NIMBY's near the B4 terminal on Narrows and 77th St have asked the TA to reroute it and the 86th St/4th Ave Transit Center IMO makes the most sense.

 

I am not sure the B4 would be ever be extended to Kings Plaza but it makes much more sense than say extending the B9 or the B3 IMO for a 1-through bus between Bay Ridge and the Kings Plaza area.

[Fresh Pond]

I know this is off-topic but here goes...

 

is the B38 limited really necessary?

[Eric B]

I would say yes, as that was always an incredibly slow ride.

But I avoid all of those downtown buses (in favor of the to the ; even argue with my wife about it because she doesn't like the trains), I have not even been on it yet. Don't know how much fadster it really is. Didn't even think it would work, since there is not much passing room on the streets.

[Shortline Bus]

I know this is off-topic but here goes...

 

is the B38 limited really necessary?

 

 

Not sure either maybe other regulars who ridden it can better comment on it. IMO a very few and selected amount of the B38 should just run non stop Downtown Brooklyn (westbound)from Broadway/Macolm X Blvd to Flatbush and Eastbound(Towards Ridgewood)non stop from Flatbush Ave(Rockwell Place)-Macolm X then all stops.

 

The B38x is what this route would be called and would run every 10-20 minutes in peak direction only weekdays. The riders further out from Downtown ie Bushwick and Ridgewood should be the ones that have faster bus service.

[Fresh Pond]

It's like between Tillary St, and Lewis Blvd, it doesn't make a difference which one you take. They wasted money making a route a limited when they could've made others a limited like...

 

B37 (even though they say are get rid of it) (right)

B63

B3

B47

B15

and others

[via White Plains Road]

It's like between Tillary St, and Lewis Blvd, it doesn't make a difference which one you take. They wasted money making a route a limited when they could've made others a limited like...

 

B37 (even though they say are get rid of it) (right)

B63

B3

B47

B15

and others

 

The B15 needs to be Limited (JFK bound)....its utterly disgusting its that crowded while Spring Creek-Postal Facility bound is damn near empty!

[Shortline Bus]

It's like between Tillary St, and Lewis Blvd, it doesn't make a difference which one you take. They wasted money making a route a limited when they could've made others a limited like...

 

B37 (even though they say are get rid of it) (right)

B63

B3

B47

B15

and others

 

Fresh Pond and other members. In order for a NYCT/MTA Bus to have limited service, it must have these requirements:

1)The route must travel at least 6 miles from point a-point b along it's 'main route."

 

2)Headways or the frequencies of a proposed line must be every 5 minutes or less weekdays and every 6 minutes or less weekends/holidays.

 

The exception for headway requirements for limited stop service is the Q35 and M60 which are interborough routes and special 'express intraborough' lines such as the M98 Q53 and B103

 

So routes like the B37 and B63 would be elimanted since during rush hours they have 12-15 minute headways and 8 minute headways.

In addition the "R" train parells the B37 and B63 the entire route, making it less likely for service.

 

The B47 has 7-8 minute headways rush hours so that another route not likely to get limited stop service. Plus the B46 is nearby too.

 

The B15 is close with 6-7 minute headways rush hours along the main line between Flushing Ave and the Postal Center. While the B3 has 4-5 minute headways during the rush hour and every 6-7 minute most of the day weekdays until 8pm.

 

The B3 and B15 are the best canadiates for limited stop service.

[Fresh Pond]

Fresh Pond and other members. In order for a NYCT/MTA Bus to have limited service, it must have these requirements:

1)The route must travel at least 6 miles from point a-point b along it's 'main route."

 

2)Headways or the frequencies of a proposed line must be every 5 minutes or less weekdays and every 6 minutes or less weekends/holidays.

 

The exception for headway requirements for limited stop service is the Q35 and M60 which are interborough routes and special 'express intraborough' lines such as the M98 Q53 and B103

 

So routes like the B37 and B63 would be elimanted since during rush hours they have 12-15 minute headways and 8 minute headways.

In addition the "R" train parells the B37 and B63 the entire route, making it less likely for service.

 

The B47 has 7-8 minute headways rush hours so that another route not likely to get limited stop service. Plus the B46 is nearby too.

 

The B15 is close with 6-7 minute headways rush hours along the main line between Flushing Ave and the Postal Center. While the B3 has 4-5 minute headways during the rush hour and every 6-7 minute most of the day weekdays until 8pm.

 

The B3 and B15 are the best canadiates for limited stop service.

 

so why not?

[Eric B]

Not sure either maybe other regulars who ridden it can better comment on it. IMO a very few and selected amount of the B38 should just run non stop Downtown Brooklyn (westbound)from Broadway/Macolm X Blvd to Flatbush and Eastbound(Towards Ridgewood)non stop from Flatbush Ave(Rockwell Place)-Macolm X then all stops.

 

The B38x is what this route would be called and would run every 10-20 minutes in peak direction only weekdays. The riders further out from Downtown ie Bushwick and Ridgewood should be the ones that have faster bus service.

 

I thought of something like that too, but since you would still lose a lot of time on Lafayette/DeKalb Aves, it would take Park Av. to Broadway, then Myrtle, and either pick up the route there at DeKalb/Central, or continue on Myrtle to Palmetto. (though I don't know which between the two is lsower. Myrtle has long lights, but DeKalb is narrower).

 

That would be good to replace the Myrtle el, which never should have been taken down.

[Forest Glen]

The B38 runs parallel to the G train for half it's route. Riders needing "express" service can take the G.

[Shortline Bus]

Ok. So does the M101 with the Lex Ave subway or the BX1 and BX2 with the ((D)Concourse line. Although traffic delays is a huge problem The B38 is a very busy that needs help imo.

[Fresh Pond]

Ok. So does the M101 with the Lex Ave subway or the BX1 and BX2 with the (D)Concourse line. Although traffic delays is a huge problem The B38 is a very busy that needs help imo.

 

 

Also with the B25 and the (A)/©

[R32 Anthony]

You can not cut bus service, especially on Staten Island. Sure we have great express bus service (at a higher price,) but our local service is horrible. They want to cut the S54 and S57 on the weekends. They think people are well to do, they can afford a car in these areas. How about people who do not drive or who are disabled and need bus service. On the weekends, bus service is every 30 minutes and if a bus breaks down, it is an hour wait. (It will feel like 2 hours if the whether is bad.) They need more buses on the south shore.

[Shortline Bus]

You can not cut bus service, especially on Staten Island. Sure we have great express bus service (at a higher price,) but our local service is horrible. They want to cut the S54 and S57 on the weekends. They think people are well to do, they can afford a car in these areas. How about people who do not drive or who are disabled and need bus service. On the weekends, bus service is every 30 minutes and if a bus breaks down, it is an hour wait. (It will feel like 2 hours if the whether is bad.) They need more buses on the south shore.

 

 

Anothny this thread topic was not talking about 'cuttting bus service." This topic was about mergering or improving on a few reduduant bus lines on NYCT/MTA Bus that are reduduant or don't need service.

 

For example in Brooklyn the B31 has almost zero no riders overnights so that should be cut. or Maybe mergering the low performing B24 route with an nearby route like the B43 or the Q104 for examples.

 

That all i intended to do here. The MTA like any other agency should adjust in these ecomonic diffcult time and this thread is designed to save money and use to increase service in other parts of NYC that need more service.

 

Hope this clears it up.

 

FYI. Regarding the S54 it's Northbound Terminal should really be in Port Richmond not West Brighton while the S57 could end at the SI Mall area instead of Port Richmond. A big problem with the S54 and S57 is that they are redudant routes along most of the way.

[Eric B]

 

The B38 runs parallel to the G train for half it's route. Riders needing "express" service can take the G.

Except that the G turns away halfway down the run, so those continuing past Nostrand wont find that any good.