Jump to content
Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
SevenEleven

Can the train move with the doors opened?

Recommended Posts

Topic ^^

 

And before you give me the answer: "Of course not, silly.", don't bother answering.

 

But, really. Yesterday while I was riding throughout Manhattan, I noticed that the train started moving before the doors are closed. I know that some T/Os and C/Rs like to work together in a sense where they take off as soon as the doors are closed, and the C/R turns their key.

 

I was in the conductors car on the uptown (A) riding a R44. At 50th Street, (Uptown (A) trains were local all the way to 207th yesterday) the T/O was releasing the brakes, and the C/R were handling the rear of the train. Before the C/R closed the front doors, the train moved up a little and stopped. (And then the C/R closed the doors, and we were off)

 

On the way back, I was on a R40S, and at one of the local stops, ( (A) trains were express up to 125th Street, but local all the way after while (D) trains ran express) the exact same thing. Riding in the conductors car, the train moved up while both doors were closed. But the C/R opened up the front half with the train moving, then it stopped, and moved up a bit after the C/R closed them again. (In which the train had to stop again since the doors opened again)

 

So I was just wondering if the train can move with any of the doors opened.

Also, I was wondering if some T/O-C/R pairs are naturally "aggressive" when it comes to serving stations. On the R40S, both were handling CPW - Easy in, easy out.

 

Just wondering.

7-11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Topic ^^

 

And before you give me the answer: "Of course not, silly.", don't bother answering.

 

But, really. Yesterday while I was riding throughout Manhattan, I noticed that the train started moving before the doors are closed. I know that some T/Os and C/Rs like to work together in a sense where they take off as soon as the doors are closed, and the C/R turns their key.

 

I was in the conductors car on the uptown (A) riding a R44. At 50th Street, (Uptown (A) trains were local all the way to 207th yesterday) the T/O was releasing the brakes, and the C/R were handling the rear of the train. Before the C/R closed the front doors, the train moved up a little and stopped. (And then the C/R closed the doors, and we were off)

 

On the way back, I was on a R40S, and at one of the local stops, ( (A) trains were express up to 125th Street, but local all the way after while (D) trains ran express) the exact same thing. Riding in the conductors car, the train moved up while both doors were closed. But the C/R opened up the front half with the train moving, then it stopped, and moved up a bit after the C/R closed them again. (In which the train had to stop again since the doors opened again)

 

So I was just wondering if the train can move with any of the doors opened.

Also, I was wondering if some T/O-C/R pairs are naturally "aggressive" when it comes to serving stations. On the R40S, both were handling CPW - Easy in, easy out.

 

Just wondering.

7-11

 

No, just kidding. B)

Yes in fact, in can happen. Once I was on the (Q) at Newkirk Avenue, the trian opened its doors but the T/O, accidentlly moved the train up 5 feet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the station is in a down or up slope, and the T/O releases the brakes, the train will move forward or backwards due to the heavy weight. Which is why T/Os need to maintain the brakes in application while in the station.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes it can happen but if the train moves too fast it will go BIE. Happen to me on an R142 at presdent st a while ago the train slid out the station but it went BIE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes it's possible, I don't know about SMEE equipment, but I would think in NTT there is some kind of protective equipment, like trainfan22 said, that would activate E brakes; some train operator would have to confirm that for me...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually it can, and has to be when there are door problems (signal light relay, which gives the T/O indication all doors are closed and locked and the train can take power). When the door does not close, the train cannot take power (same concept with the buses rear door interlock system). It is for safety, so no one gets dragged. To do so, rules have to be followed. First it must be called in that the T/O cannot get indication, and/or the C/R does not have it in a zone. The doors must be inspected for guard and fault light, and "snapped tested", to make sure that it is closed and locked. This comes after the train is discharged. The T/O has a door bypass button, that overrides the signal light relay. RCC will tell the T/O to do this. All the passenger equipment has this. This way the train takes power when the doors are opened. T/O who do yard moves with defective trains, and cuts and adds, must use this. In the yards permission is not needed, as the train is empty or has only our personnel on it. On the road, the train must be discharged, so their is no risk of a door being accidentally overlooked (in TA terms "the two dummies on there probably don't know how to check the doors properly"), and one pops open en-route, and some customer becomes fried chopped meat, after doing a cartwheel out the door of the moving train.

 

For what some of you seen, it can happen for a few feet, but that is when a T/O releases all the brakes on a grade, in anticipation of the doors closing and locking, and they can get moving ASAP, and the train starts to roll......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i remember there were a lot of incidents were people got caught between doors of the Redbirds and dragged along the platform

 

yup...that's a major reason for those cars being retired...

 

it CAN happen. the acutal way its designed is that without indication the train (red light in the T/O's cab indicating doors are closed and locked) the circuit functions to open the control switch and prevent the T/O from taking power...however on a SMEE if he puts it in full release, the train can slide, not to mention there is a door bypass that allows the train to move without indication (this is intended to be used if there's a hanging guard light and a TSS/RCI wants to take the train light back to the yard)

 

whoops didn't read the whole thread...looks like DOB beat me to it...and yes, some T/O's can have a kind of code with their conductor (so they won't have to use the buzzer) that if they don't have a lineup at a particular station, they will leave the brake in full service but if they DO have the lineup they'll put it in min brake so the C/R will hear a partial release and know it's OK to close down (and if they don't hear the partial release, it's stop and stay w/doors open)...but if they get a lineup and put it in full release instead of min brake the train may roll...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so does this include when in station, for example at 14th street on a (5) to dyre, its ful on that R142 but if the T/O hits the handle will it start even if the doors are open?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
so does this include when in station, for example at 14th street on a (5) to dyre, its ful on that R142 but if the T/O hits the handle will it start even if the doors are open?

 

It could.. but that will be an epic safety issue, provided the train is packed like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
so does this include when in station, for example at 14th street on a (5) to dyre, its ful on that R142 but if the T/O hits the handle will it start even if the doors are open?

 

It's not suppose to, cause the T/O should not get indication. If it does happen, then the train immediately is discharged and taken out of service. That's a major safety issue....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's not suppose to, cause the T/O should not get indication. If it does happen, then the train immediately is discharged and taken out of service. That's a major safety issue....

 

Especially given the conditions of rush hour on the 5 line... people crowd near the door due to lack of space. It really would not be safe for the train to start when the door is not closed at that point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That happened to me yesterday on an R142 (4) train goin home. The doors were still open, I heard the brakes release and the train moved about 3 inches and then stopped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That happened to me yesterday on an R142 (4) train goin home. The doors were still open, I heard the brakes release and the train moved about 3 inches and then stopped.

 

Where?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
so does this include when in station, for example at 14th street on a (5) to dyre, its ful on that R142 but if the T/O hits the handle will it start even if the doors are open?

 

NTT's don't have a "full release" notch per say, they have power notches, a coast notch, a braking range, and then BIE. i suppose if the controller were placed and held in coast while the train was sitting with doors open in a station on a slope, the train could roll though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always wondered, the NTT cars when the doors are opened, does this prevent the train from moving? I was on the (6) a R142A of course once and the train didn't move because one set of doors didn't close.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That happened to me yesterday on an R142 (4) train goin home. The doors were still open, I heard the brakes release and the train moved about 3 inches and then stopped.

 

train must of slide and the T/o didnt held brakes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NTT's don't have a "full release" notch per say, they have power notches, a coast notch, a braking range, and then BIE. i suppose if the controller were placed and held in coast while the train was sitting with doors open in a station on a slope, the train could roll though

 

Ok wats a full release and BIE, i dont know this and im not jking:o

 

full release as in, removing the brake handle , a complete stop?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok wats a full release and BIE, i dont know this and im not jking:o

 

full release as in, removing the brake handle , a complete stop?

 

full release = a full release of the brakes aka nothing stopping the train from rolling. BIE = brakes in emergency aka dumping the train.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i suppose if the controller were placed and held in coast while the train was sitting with doors open in a station on a slope, the train could roll though

 

In coast or a power position. Brakes will release but the train won't take power cause the doors are open. On a grade, the train will roll. It's no secret, that why the saying is if the platform is moving, it isn't the platform........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I always wondered, the NTT cars when the doors are opened, does this prevent the train from moving? I was on the (6) a R142A of course once and the train didn't move because one set of doors didn't close.

 

In the A Div it's for all passenger trains 142, 142A, 62, and 62A. I will speak of only those, since I am not familiar with all B-Div equipment.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.