IRT Trains on BMT/IND lines in an emergency

[R421969]

What would happen, if by emergency, that IRT cars would have to be put on BMT/IND lines? For example...R62s Running on the A line because of a sabatoge at pitkin or 207th Street? Would you take that extra step, literally?

[MattTrain]

IRT cars can't go on the BMT/IND Lines. That's dangerous, there would be a large gap between the platforms of the lettered lines and the R62/62A/142/142A. You'd have at least a six-inch gap, and people may fall through. There are plenty of IND/BMT yards around, so one or two yard sabotage would not be a major problem.

[N-Trizzy2609]

I believe a few years ago, a set of Redbirds on the were diverted down the Astoria after a electrical fire broke out on the Flushing. The train did not stop at any station until Ditmars Blvd. That was only once. After all (7)s were running between Queensboro and Time Square. The fire knocked out service on all tracks, it was cause by a newspaper on the tracks or something. I can't remember it all it was when I still lived in Brooklyn. Correct me if you feel some of this sorry is off because it was so long ago.

[mark1447]

IRT cars can't go on the BMT/IND Lines. That's dangerous, there would be a large gap between the platforms of the lettered lines and the R62/62A/142/142A. You'd have at least a six-inch gap, and people may fall through. There are plenty of IND/BMT yards around, so one or two yard sabotage would not be a major problem.

 

Not as dangerous as having an IND/BMT car on an IRT, which wouldnt fit at all

 

Now unless the IRT cars would have a feature to allow crossing over the gab [Like a ramp], then i wouldn't call it unsafe =)

[R1Toasty]

Not to mention the trip switches being on the opposite side...

[Joe C]

For a time in the 50's and 60's,Low-V cars did run on the IND/BMT lines.i think they ran on

the Culver line.the cars had extenders so that passengers could properly get on the train

without having to worry about the gap.

[metsfan]

They could do it as a last resort in an emergency if the situation demanded it, otherwise no way. They just are not inter-compatible operationally. They made the IRT narrow so standard railcars couldn't fit in the tunnel. After people realized the subway was an awesome idea, they got rid of the narrow loading gauge in favor of a simplified car construction plan vs having narrower than usual rolling stock. For example, in an absolute last option type event you could pop certain non-subway equipment in the IND/BMT bellmouthes etc, but on the IRT forget it.

 

- A

[Tbirdbassist]

The only place where this could happen is at Queensborough Plaza. As a superultra last resort I'm sure. All the other connections with with both divisions are through yards and not direct from revenue trackage to revenue trackage.

 

 

 

It'd be cool, but it's never happen. They'd discharge passengers to emergency exits or something before any cross system running happens.

[R32 3348]

It'll never happen. Cars will be transferred from the same divisions, not between divisions.

[Trainmaster5]

Many years ago I used to do transfers from 180th St yard to Coney Island yard. We would take IRT horses ( single cars ) and head over to Concourse yard and add an IND car to each end. Usually the consist was two IND cars on the ends with 5-6 IRT cars in the middle. Then down the Concourse line and CPW and either 6th or 8th Ave to the IND Culver line. It used to amaze me that people would try to board the transfer train even with the gaps from the platform to the train cars. In the mornings when we did the new car (R62A) reverse transfer people would still try to board the train. So, the IRT cars can travel on the other divisions with BMT/IND cars on the ends for signal protection but BMT/IND cars can NEVER operate on the IRT due to their width and length. An IRT car can NEVER be operated on the other divisions in passenger service because of the lack of signal protection.

[Joe]

I assume the IRT cars were dead, being electrically incompatible with the IND cars?

[Trainmaster5]

I assume the IRT cars were dead, being electrically incompatible with the IND cars?

 

The couplers ARE compatible and the cars were electrically and pneumatically compatible in my case. NTT cars are not compatible with other equipment.The IRT cars were used to power the R62A cars and provide proper braking to the consist for it's return trip. Most SMEE equipment is compatible w/ other equipment except for the NTT's. In the example I gave the R62A cars were basically being pulled by the IND and IRT motor cars from Coney Island to Concourse Yard and on to East 180th St Yard because they hadn't been prepped by Bombardier yet. That work was done at East 180th St when they arrived. The ribbon fuses for the traction motors weren't connected yet but there was electricity in the cars.

[Tbirdbassist]

What Trainmaster5 said with the exception of the R44 and R46's. The couplers are different from both NTT and the 60's and 80's era trains.

[KeystoneRegional]

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[Luis1985]

Not as dangerous as having an IND/BMT car on an IRT, which wouldnt fit at all

 

Now unless the IRT cars would have a feature to allow crossing over the gab [Like a ramp], then i wouldn't call it unsafe =)

 

 

that is so true. the IND/BMT cars are wider then the IRT. so they wouldnt fit, however, IRT cars would fit on the IND/BMT cars. but not safe to operate in passenger service because of the station gaps between the platform and the IRT car.

[Nature]

The gaps is not that wide people can hop it though.

 

Property of nycsubway.org Crosstown line

 

 

 

[SubwayGuy]

Ive heard that some of the R62As based out of Corona are equipped with trip cocks on both sides of the truck...never seen it for myself but just saying...I'd imagine that's done for extreme cases only...I've never seen A Div cars in service anywhere in the B division nor do I think I ever will, even if the lead/tail cars had trip cocks for signal protection. And let's face it they don't trust people to step over the gap because they will not pay attention, fall, and sue. And someone in our ridiculous legal system will take their claim seriously enough that either the MTA will have to pay a settlement or they will win a verdict in court...

 

New techs and SMEEs can be coupled iron to iron only. The electric portions are copletely different on both and the electrical/pneumatic setup is completely different so the cars are totally incompatible as trainmaster said above.

[R32 3348]

The gaps is not that wide people can hop it though.

It may not seem that big but the increased gap makes it much easier to slip through if you're not paying attention (which 90% of straphangers don't do when they're getting off a train).

[MTR Admiralty]

Not as dangerous as having an IND/BMT car on an IRT, which wouldnt fit at all

 

Now unless the IRT cars would have a feature to allow crossing over the gab [Like a ramp], then i wouldn't call it unsafe =)

 

But Div B stations do not have platform extenders that are designed for emergency Div A car usage. So hence, not practical.