Art Vandelay Posted April 15, 2009 Share #26 Posted April 15, 2009 They didn't get AC because such would increase their weight significantly, but they were retired for a number of other reasons. -The B division fleet was larger than was needed at the time -They were not air conditioned -They were the oldest cars -They were among the least reliable cars -Parts from them were needed to improve the reliability of the R36WF fleet. Those factors combined brought about the retirement of the R30 GOH fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted April 15, 2009 Share #27 Posted April 15, 2009 Wait, what is the MDBF for the R30? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted April 15, 2009 Share #28 Posted April 15, 2009 Wait, what is the MDBF for the R30? You seriously don't want to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted April 15, 2009 Share #29 Posted April 15, 2009 You seriously don't want to know... Actually I do. But I'm rather certain that it is not like 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted April 16, 2009 Share #30 Posted April 16, 2009 Of course the R26s were older, but they are on a separate division, and are therefore irrellevant. The B division had more cars than needed while the A division did not. If the B division did not have excess cars in the fleet, than the R30s would not have been retired. It wasnt until 2001 with the openning of the south side of the manhattan bridge, the Queensbridge connector, and the need for expansion of L line service that there was a real shortage of B division equipment. I don't have access to historical MDBF numbers at the moment, but if I find anything i'll pass it along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r30redbird Posted April 16, 2009 Author Share #31 Posted April 16, 2009 I spose the fact that those cars went through the 1980's didnt help much either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted April 16, 2009 Share #32 Posted April 16, 2009 Like the R38s and the GE R32s, the R27s/R30s received horrible overhauls. This ultimately plagued them especially during their times after the GOH. I believe the R27s/R30s received the worse of all the overhauls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted April 17, 2009 Share #33 Posted April 17, 2009 I wouldn't quite describe the R38 overhaul as "horrible". They were fairly consistantly the most reliable of the GOH smees. The R30s got an overhaul similar to the IRT redbirds. The only difference is the lack of AC installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted April 17, 2009 Share #34 Posted April 17, 2009 I wouldn't quite describe the R38 overhaul as "horrible". They were fairly consistantly the most reliable of the GOH smees. The R38s had always been consistant in relatively high MDBF even before the GOH. If it wasn't for GE ruining their roofs, they would probably be the second to last or last to leave for the 60 ft SMEEs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted April 17, 2009 Share #35 Posted April 17, 2009 I wouldn't quite describe the R38 overhaul as "horrible". They were fairly consistantly the most reliable of the GOH smees. The R38s had always been consistant in relatively high MDBF even before the GOH. If it wasn't for GE ruining their roofs, they would probably be the second to last or last to leave for the 60 ft SMEEs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserati7200 Posted April 17, 2009 Share #36 Posted April 17, 2009 I wouldn't quite describe the R38 overhaul as "horrible". They were fairly consistantly the most reliable of the GOH smees. The R30s got an overhaul similar to the IRT redbirds. The only difference is the lack of AC installed. Yeah, but cosmetically, the R38's were doing terrible (at least IMO). Rusted roofs and bodies, dim lighting etc. I've seen pictures of the R38 before the overhaul, and they looked much better then. In fact, I think if the R38 were not overhauled by GE, they would still be rolling on our rails along with the Phase I R32's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maserati7200 Posted April 17, 2009 Share #37 Posted April 17, 2009 The R38s had always been consistant in relatively high MDBF even before the GOH. If it wasn't for GE ruining their roofs, they would probably be the second to last or last to leave for the 60 ft SMEEs. Agreed :tup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted April 19, 2009 Share #38 Posted April 19, 2009 Curse GE!:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe C Posted April 19, 2009 Share #39 Posted April 19, 2009 The only difference is the lack of AC installed. That's one of the reasons why the R30 were retired,the TA wanted all of their subway cars with A/C units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted April 20, 2009 Share #40 Posted April 20, 2009 I believe so. An individual R-30 weighs about 91,000 lbs. I wonder if R-16s also had the same heaviness problem... One R30 car weighed between 79,000 and 80,000 lbs.an R16 weighs between 84,000 and 86,000 lbs. That's because the 16's were single cars, containing both the compressor and electrical equipment. Single cars are always heavier. Now why the 160, which is not single, and is lighter stainless steel... probably has to do with the computer equipment, as well as the A/C. Let me break this down for everybody here: 1. The B Division fleet had the right number cars. Once the twenty-sevens and thirties were gone, the B Division suffered a fleet shortage 2. True, the R30's would have been heavy if A/C units were to be added 3. The R26's became the oldest cars after the R10 was retired in 1989 4. Can't vouch for that 5. I would like to see proof 6. See #5 Of course the R26s were older, but they are on a separate division, and are therefore irrellevant. The B division had more cars than needed while the A division did not. If the B division did not have excess cars in the fleet, than the R30s would not have been retired. It wasnt until 2001 with the openning of the south side of the manhattan bridge, the Queensbridge connector, and the need for expansion of L line service that there was a real shortage of B division equipment. I don't have access to historical MDBF numbers at the moment, but if I find anything i'll pass it along. No, when they got rid of the 30's, there was a shortage. They basically stretched the remainder of the fleet and had to push the retirement, based on the lack of A/C. that's why the 143's didn't replace anything. Then there were enough cars for the final full Manhattan Bridge service. The R38s had always been consistant in relatively high MDBF even before the GOH. If it wasn't for GE ruining their roofs, they would probably be the second to last or last to leave for the 60 ft SMEEs. the 38's would still not be as good as the 32's with a different roof. They are like the 40's and 42's with a standard steel frame under the stainless steel that would still rust, and the cars would still not be in much better condition than those other cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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