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metsfan

The DL&W thread

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I figured since i've been to (NJT)'s hoboken terminal enough to notice this placard at the end of the train shed eves it was worth looking into this all most forgotten railroad.

 

P2060199.jpg

 

http://www.forgottenbuffalo.com/forgottenbuffalolost/thedlwterminal.html

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware,_Lackawanna_and_Western_Railroad

 

http://dlw-sussexbranch.com/

 

http://jcrhs.org/dlw.html

 

http://www.trainweb.org/gggrs/DLW_south_waverly.html

 

 

 

 

 

This railroad also ran into PA and part of its trackage was seen by me along with a PC marked lightweight passenger car in philipsburg, nj.

 

- A

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Here are some photos i found on the internet of the terminal. © respective owners.

abrHobokenTerminal.jpg

 

hoboken-lackawanna-tower-lit-up.jpg

 

ProjectPage_Transportation_Hoboken_2.jpg

 

hoboken-lackawanna-renovations-progress-feb-18-2008.JPG

 

060606.jpg

 

060606b.jpg

 

The tracks, the tracks, the tracks are on fiiahhhhh.... :cool:

eltonnav2.jpg

 

elhoboken.jpg

 

large_large_littower.jpg

 

large_signisup.JPG

 

Please toss in any photos you have of this beautiful old terminal as well as any historical info, stories from the olden golden days of rail etc.

 

- A

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If you want to talk about the DL&W you can't have a conversation about it with out the NJ cutoff(Lackawanna Cutoff). The thing is an engineering marvel that hopefully will soon have trains running on it again.

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If you want to talk about the DL&W you can't have a conversation about it with out the NJ cutoff(Lackawanna Cutoff). The thing is an engineering marvel that hopefully will soon have trains running on it again.

 

PA & NJ have been wrangling over putting this line back into service for a while and it seems all most inevitable at this point given the fact that (NJT) is taking delivery of many new locomotives part of which are dual mode and still in the middle of its second out of 3 multilevel option orders as well as possibly getting more comet 5. They are also going to be getting new EMU but that's fleet replacement, not expansion. They may end up doing a fleet expansion after all of the current fleet is retired, however i think it's going to depend heavily on the performance of whatever they end up getting. Seeing as budd is gone you're certain to see a striking difference when the new stuff is put in service too.

 

As far as local support, it's there with funding, just need to do it.

 

As far as the ROW i believe both PA and NJ own it on their respective sides of the river. There are stations still along this line as well which will need to be either refurbished or rebuilt depending on the situation.

 

I believe (NJT) should have some kind of nod to both the EL and DL&W. Perhaps as with the silverliner 2 they should have that long flat metallic sign piece that says "lackawanna", or perhaps some locomotives with old EL and DL&W livery but the black "nj transit" logo vs the defunct markings? Maybe even have the (NJT) logo nice and small & integrate the old logos as they would have been if they survived till today.

 

According to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lackawanna_Cutoff

 

(NJT) plans to restore service, with amtrak or other entity possibly having a route between hoboken and binghamton, ny since the ROW extends into NY. I say re-activate and restore service along the entire route to buffalo, and have it be like the tri-state corridor line or something.

 

- A

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(NJT) does not have any Silverliner II'shttp://kaback9.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1448953...they Have Arrow III's http://kaback9.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1453633 which are similar to Silverliner IV's http://kaback9.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1448951.

 

As for the cutoff, a 7 mile stretch is being rebuilt by (NJT) right now, i believe or they just got approval to start.

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Oh i know they have arrows, just saying, they could have that style of plate on the side that the silverliner 2's have.

 

I am so excited about this.

 

- A

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Transit has to many railroads from which its heritage is drawn so, to single out one RR would be a bit ridiculous. What I would like to see is them bring back the EL/NJDOT Bluebird scheme paint. But now I'm just dreaming.

 

I am very excited as well to see things at least get started on the cutoff, hopefully when these seven miles are done they will just continue on at least to the NJ border, then things will get a little sticky as PA, will need to step up some funds.

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Transit has to many railroads from which its heritage is drawn so, to single out one RR would be a bit ridiculous. What I would like to see is them bring back the EL/NJDOT Bluebird scheme paint. But now I'm just dreaming.

 

I am very excited as well to see things at least get started on the cutoff, hopefully when these seven miles are done they will just continue on at least to the NJ border, then things will get a little sticky as PA, will need to step up some funds.

 

Apparently funds are waiting in PA for the NJ side to be done. Yea, the bluebird paint would be nice. Imagine a ALP-45 trip from scranton to hoboken in bluebird paint! I'd take the trip just for the scenery. I think they should have shuttle busses to dorney park as well from both this "lackawanna" line and the west trenton line in summer, and from the "lackawanna" line to ski locations in winter...... How about a shuttle bus for ABE thrown in the mix?

 

- A

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You could have NPRTA operate a line from scranton to binghamton, or have full joint operation between scranton and lake hopatcong and NPRTA having lone operation past scranton to NY....

 

-A

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I just realized the whole lake hopatcong-scranton route only has like 7 grade crossings that could easily be eliminated because the crossings are relatively straightforward. Might be a good idea just to make it safer. The cut-off area has no grade crossings at all, and there are none till after stroudsburg. Very cool!:eek:

 

For (NJT) trains serving scranton, i'd suggest a few trains leave from hoboken for example, and make stops only at lake hopatcong, and newark broad st, but no other stops along the currently active lines to cut down on travel time. I think the line should be 100 mph rated with possibility for future upgrades & electrification.

 

- A

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No trains are going to Bing, sorry. If the Cutoff is put back into service Scranton will be the endpoint. Amtrak and NYS were looking into a NYP-Bing route, I don't think that cutoff was even discussed as an option at this point, it could though but then Scranton would be served by Amtrak and (NJT) would stop before the PA border would be my guess.

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Well amtrak could go to buffalo, as an alternate to taking the former NYC main line.... NPRTA could go between bing & scranton, and scranton & Lake hopatcong. (NJT) could go at least to stroudsburg. This way you have even distribution of service that isn't too reliant on one entity. Or, you could create the tri-state rail corridor authority to oversee the whole route?

 

- A

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Those are some good points and alot of fantasy things:) I wish they would happen but knowing how NJT and the other agencies think, I'm not to sure will ever see it. Lets just get past the initial 7 miles and take it from there.

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I agree one step at a time...............

 

I'm thinking in terms of what passenger needs/wants would be, not so much "what i want to see so i can ride it". If there's a tree down or some incident blocking empire corridor/hudson line access from up near albany you'd have an alternate route. The initial stuff is a great start and i can't wait to see what happens next. At the same time the region needs to keep an eye on the future where people do in fact ride higher speed rail to get places as a fact of life vs airport or drive. I think airports are fine, but nothing can ever supplant main line passenger rail service. If we can get more people on rails, less taxes will have to be spent on fixing roads better air quality, and safer travel using less resources.

 

If a truncated phoebe snow to buffalo with NJ and PA commuter service to compliment happens, we will be one route closer to pushing away from auto roads as a main long distance travel medium and closer to a nation less dependent on fossil fuels (especially those imported). I think reviving a few DL&W/EL routes will help with that. I also think former CRRNJ, NYC, Reading, & electrified freight routes could come into this as well. It's about undoing the damage that has been done and reversing the decay back to a respectable level to where even more expansion & service improvements are embraced vs ignored or shunned like a dirty diaper. :cool:

 

- A

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Its nice to think but its another thing when reality sets in, you have to realize most Americans can not live with out their car, I would even include my self in such a group as where I live the closest station is 9 miles away and the ROW near my house has been a rail-trail for some time(CNJ Freehold Branch BTW). Yes I can bike to the station which I sometimes do in the summer(not pleasant going into the city feeling disgusting though:(). But its not reasonable and the folks near me are nuts and don't want them to bring back the ROW. So after all that that has nothing to do with anything I SAY BLAME NIMBYS! B)

 

Back on the topic of DL&W though.

http://kaback9.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1449651 modernday short line through which it lives on!

 

and at steam town they have this critter.

 

http://kaback9.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1449642

http://kaback9.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1449649

 

Enjoy!

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One of the 3 reasons PRR died is because it was into building its own steam locos vs diesel. They switched to diesel too late. Sadly the 2 models from baldwin that could have saved PRR and baldwin were both unreliable. EL simply never got funding when it needed it and away it went. Interesting the rolling stock lasting longer than the railroad that used them Reminds me of conrail running the last electric freight trains before they pulled the (electric) plug.

 

Sad sad stuff to think about really. Makes me angry sometimes when i see a small fleet of former ___ locomotives and cars still around but no RR to use them, especially if the stations are still there.

 

 

 

Who else used those alcos? I know LIRR did. Milwaukee road maybe? Who else used the emd? I think CRRNJ used a few of them, as well as the NY&A back in the day before they got LIRR's old stuff. *scratches chin*

 

- A

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The DL a short line that runs over the former Lackawana in and around Scranton PA, uses quite a few ALCOS. The Morristown & Erie uses a few as well.

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The DL a short line that runs over the former Lackawana in and around Scranton PA, uses quite a few ALCOS. The Morristown & Erie uses a few as well.

 

Nice! Any photos of those?

 

- A

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