(A) Line Super Express Question

[NX Express]

They should make the skip Rockaway, 88, 80, and Grant. At Euclid, there will be a cross-platform transfer (at least for rush hours).

[Luis1985]

They should make the skip Rockaway, 88, 80, and Grant. At Euclid, there will be a cross-platform transfer (at least for rush hours).

 

i dont think thats a good idea cuz while the is crossing onto those tracks, it holds up the . might as well let it share track between Grant Av and Rockaway Blvd.

[NX Express]

i dont think thats a good idea cuz while the is crossing onto those tracks, it holds up the . might as well let it share track between Grant Av and Rockaway Blvd.

 

That's what I meant.

 

Revised idea:

 

skips Rockaway Bl & 80 St

skips 88 St & Grant Av

[Milan]

if A SUPER express is really needed then TA should build the conduit line

on the hypotenuse.It will be between EUCLID and HOWARD BEACH stations

under conduit ave-belt pkway or even in the median ala chicago CTA lines to save money.

[LRG]

I'm not too sure. I still hold to my arguments that the C should be left at Euclid because those C trains will just be empty at Rockaway Blvd when riders gets their chance to take the A train.

The only way to keep riders on the C would be if the A train [per rush hour direction] skipped both Rockaway Blvd and 88th st and switched back at 80th St. Or then again A line riders would just be pissed about skipping Rockaway Blvd and C line riders will still get off at 80th for the A.

But I think, if I added the numbers correctly, those 3 Lefferts bound stations have about as many riders as most of the Far Rockaway stops combined. So I don't see it as being fair to Lefferts riders that they have to get shafted when the Far Rock branch has just about as many riders, just spread out over a much longer distance.

 

Lefferts branch

Ozone Park-Lefferts Blvd -- 2,375,496

111 St -- 823,229

104 St -- 550,019

 

total = 3,748,744

 

Far Rock branch

Far Rockaway-Mott Av -- 1,410,829

Beach 60 St -- 767,363

Beach 67 St -- 587,384

Beach 25 St -- 554,927

Beach 36 St -- 269,057

Beach 44 St -- 186,281

Broad Channel (A,S) -- 103,573

Aqueduct Racetrack -- 30,535

 

total = 3,909,949*

 

*yes I know it doesn't take into account the Rockaway Park riders.

**but to add them into the mix:

Rockaway Park

Beach 90 St (A,S) -- 411,581

Rockaway Park-Beach 116 St (A,S) -- 293,817

Beach 98 St (A,S) -- 232,945

Beach 105 St (A,S) -- 86,044

 

total = 1,024,387

Just my opinion.

 

You forgot the airport and the North Conduit Avenue stations.

[BroadwayBuffer]

I'm not too sure. I still hold to my arguments that the C should be left at Euclid because those C trains will just be empty at Rockaway Blvd when riders gets their chance to take the A train.

The only way to keep riders on the C would be if the A train [per rush hour direction] skipped both Rockaway Blvd and 88th st and switched back at 80th St. Or then again A line riders would just be pissed about skipping Rockaway Blvd and C line riders will still get off at 80th for the A.

But I think, if I added the numbers correctly, those 3 Lefferts bound stations have about as many riders as most of the Far Rockaway stops combined. So I don't see it as being fair to Lefferts riders that they have to get shafted when the Far Rock branch has just about as many riders, just spread out over a much longer distance.

 

Those riders wouldn't be any worse off. As it is they only have half of all trains. I don't know how many would transfer between Rockaway Blvd and 80/Hudson St, but I'm sure some would welcome the less crowded trains and stay on the . There would be no need to complicate things with skipping stations ... those who want the express can transfer, it is similar to the situation btwn the and lines.

[Grand Concourse]

You forgot the airport and the North Conduit Avenue stations.

 

Oh crap, you're right. But the numbers are pretty close given Lefferts is only 3 stops vs far rockaway's many stops.

[Grand Concourse]

Those riders wouldn't be any worse off. As it is they only have half of all trains. I don't know how many would transfer between Rockaway Blvd and 80/Hudson St, but I'm sure some would welcome the less crowded trains and stay on the . There would be no need to complicate things with skipping stations ... those who want the express can transfer, it is similar to the situation btwn the and lines.

 

I dunno, I would still think those C trains will still be empty when it rejoins the A at Rockaway Blvd. So I kinda doubt it would be such a good idea to send all the A's to Far Rockaway, but that's just me.

[fishmech]

That track that goes under Grant ave goes to Pitkin yard and not to Euclid. There is also some express rails that are out of service near Howard Beach/aqueduct heading towards the Rockaways

 

 

Aren't those the old LIRR tracks? I don't think they're still usable. LIRR used to have 4 tracks going through there and the subway only uses 2 these days. Of course, since the only way to get from those tracks to the A going towards Manhattan is a 2-track connection...

[MattTrain]

Aren't those the old LIRR tracks? I don't think they're still usable.

 

Those used to be the old LIRR tracks. The Rockaway tracks became the subway tracks in the 1950s. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[fishmech]

Those used to be the old LIRR tracks. The Rockaway tracks became the subway tracks in the 1950s. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

That's what I mean. They're all Subway tracks now, but the ones not in use were never/rarely maintained after the purchase was made. So the unused ones there are basically the same tracks laid there last rail replacement by the LIRR before the sale happened 5 decades ago.

 

When you're going along, you can sometimes see places where the unused tracks just don't exist any longer, and then they pick back up again farther on.

[EE Broadway Local]

I dunno, I would still think those C trains will still be empty when it rejoins the A at Rockaway Blvd. So I kinda doubt it would be such a good idea to send all the A's to Far Rockaway, but that's just me.

I think that was why the was cut back to begin/end at Euclid Avenue and the to begin/end at Broad Channel. The original service pattern had trains alternating between Euclid Avenue and Beach 116th Street, fitting in with the two (A)'s between Euclid and Rockaway Boulevard.

 

While not perfect, the from Mott Avenue and the from Lefferts Boulevard come together at Rockaway Boulevard to create a trunk line to 207th Street.

 

Riders in Richmond Hill have the best of both worlds: the provides local service for short trips on Liberty Avenue and if they're going to work or an event in Brooklyn or Manhattan, the has express service beginning at Euclid Avenue.

[R32 3348]

This is an old thread...

[Far Rock Depot]

Just look at this

http://www.whereandy.com/pdfs/62042.7470289.pdf

 

LOVE IT!!!!!!!

 

 

And here are some facts:

 

1. trains were permanently shortened to Euclid and replaced with the Rock Pk shuttle for a reason. Little passenger demand. Why go backwards.

2. Center tracks between Liberty Jct and JFK were cut off. and recently too. the MTA has no use for them.

3. Being a Rockaway resident, let me tell you that when a train is running late, and at Euclid, its announced that "due to lateness, this train will only stop at Rockaway Bl, JFK, Broad Channel then Mott Ave", MOST of us get upset!

"Rockaway Super express", ©'s, (K)'s and other service suggestion threads for anything east of Euclid ave should really be thought of, (and checked to see if its already been done here) before posting. Think of a few common MTA factors:

How would it affect connecting services?

Is there a passenger demand?

Are extra trainsets available?

etc....

Im not trying to bash people who come up with these "ideas". But trust me, When it comes to Rockaway service suggestions, we, the residents of Rockaway, would like to see these:

 

How to make the train show up faster if i just missed one

how to keep than dammed South channel bridge from malfunctioning after opening

how to make shuttle bus trips faster

How to add more shuttle buses

How the MTA can stop changing shuttle bus patterns!!

how the MTA, if they had the money ofcourse, make a faster line to Manhattan and NOT involving things they have tried already.

 

Rockaway residents have, on average, the longest commute to manhattan, especially if you have to go to midtown.

 

The only suggestion i have agreed with is activating the old LIRR ROW north of Liberty Ave. But that too, is a dream thatll never happen.

 

extending trains, adding trains isnt gonna help us.

itll just add more trains thatll cut infront of us, stall or delay in front of us, and just make our already looooong commute longer!

 

Now for the one's who just want to see trains with a infront, here's a doable solution, rename the lefferts to .

 

In conlusion, if you wanna make a thoughtful suggestion about any rockaway service, heres the most important factor to think about:

 

Will it realistically make the service faster

In Rockaway, thats our number one question

 

 

Sorry for the rant, but i feel it needed to be said from someone who actually LIVES in rockaway.

[Grand Concourse]

Thank you! Well stated! That's what I agree with as well. If people here wants to see a different line for Lefferts and the Far Rock branches, just rename one of them to a different letter and maybe boost their services by an extra train each.

Otherwise, why change things from what is currently running?

[Far Rock Depot]

Thank you! Well stated! That's what I agree with as well. If people here wants to see a different line for Lefferts and the Far Rock branches, just rename one of them to a different letter and maybe boost their services by an extra train each.

Otherwise, why change things from what is currently running?

 

people dont understand that the line sucks as it is, but it use to be worse. atleast now when a from rockpk crosses infront of an before the bridge, it gets out of the way just passed Broad Channel. with a , will be stuck behind it till Euclid.

 

im all for renaming one of the lines. It would honestly make finding where the train is going easier. lets be real, no one reads anymore past the route bullet.

example, if the rockaway train is an and a lefferts is a , the second the train pulls in, you know where its going to. And think about the tourists leaving NY. you tll them "take the far rockawy to JFK". they will have no idea what youre talking about other than "take the (A)" and they get lost or just frustrated having to ask every other person "does this go to jfk?''

 

Then theirs riders, like me, who commute from manhattan home around midnight. The last of the Lefferts (A)s are still floating around. we dont wanna play the guessing game, getting our hopes up, to find out we have to wait 20 mins longer. or run for that train, get on at the last minute, and get dissapointed that we have to get off by rockaway bl.

 

now if the Lefferts had a new bullet, we can see in a second if we can board, or wait. and non frequent riders could understand the service pattern better.

[Grand Concourse]

Totally, totally agreed.

[INDman]

now if the Lefferts had a new bullet, we can see in a second if we can board, or wait. and non frequent riders could understand the service pattern better.

 

Call it the train. Most people would go "Ok, the goes to Lefferts and the goes to Far Rock". I doubt anyone would confuse it with the old from 169th Street to WTC. To most people it would seem like a new route and the only people who would care that "oh the never ran there" would be foamers

[Grand Concourse]

Heh. Or if you really want to rile up the foamers, have the Lefferts A become the H

 

foamers: "but the H is for the rockaway Park S."

[INDman]

Heh. Or if you really want to rile up the foamers, have the Lefferts A become the H

 

Thing is though, is already used. Within the TA the Rockaway is the on paper.

[MAA89]

Oh crap, you're right. But the numbers are pretty close given Lefferts is only 3 stops vs far rockaway's many stops.

 

I did the numbers for other threads on the forums many times before. As you see, the combined totals for the Rockaways (both branches) and Howard Beach/Aqueduct/Broad Channel add up to almost 6 million (probably will exceed that this year), which is twice the number for the Lefferts line. The fact that the Lefferts line has more riders per station is hardly a good argument; what we are considering in determining how service is rationed is the total usage of each branch, where the non-Lefferts lines are far better used and have more riders every year (compared to Ozone Park, which was settled long ago and have stable populations).

 

This is an old thread...

 

It is; I was wondering why someone brought it up again. I think the "Rockaway service improvement issue" supporters long ago decided on lobbying for more/all trains to the Rockaways, not super-express trains, which really would help very little.

 

I was disappointed at the general opposition to any changes even by non-Ozone Park residents, when it has been acknowledged that "Rockaway residents have, on average, the longest commute to Manhattan". I do not see why nothing should be done to change that. People live in the Rockaways have their reasons for being here, including (somewhat) cheaper rent, being near the ocean etc., and it is hardly fair that we should have to endure an unnecessarily tiring trip to work/school/social events. You might as well argue for zoning and charging higher fares to residents on the outskirts of NYC, something that would be widely condemned as undemocratic and placing a high burden on poorer people.

 

However, the super-express train is a big no-no.

 

As for the super-express train, I am surprised how no one seems to have considered the extent of its benefits. The runs express on Fulton St, skipping nine stops. Having taken the local overnights and on weekends, I find that the express run saves just 10 minutes, or just over a minute per stop.

 

Most plans for the super-express do not have it skip any stations in the Rockaways (and assume it runs only on the Far Rock branch), and has it stop at Broad Channel to pick up the Rock Park riders. It makes absolutely no sense, unlike argued here

 

http://www.rockawave.com/news/2005/1028/Editorial/030.html,

 

to have a super express that goes to Manhattan after stopping only at Broad Channel. The train will have seats empty. The million-riders-per-year Howard Beach station will lose service, as will AirTrain riders looking for a ride to Manhattan. A connection to the at Broadway Jct is absolutely necessary. The stop at Nostrand should also be maintained to allow a connection to the LIRR, though I fancy few use it, since it is one of the last stations on the Atlantic Branch ending at Flatbush Avenue. And of course, you would have to connect to the at some point to provide service to riders needing to get to local stops. So, if a super-express made stops at all the Far Rockaway stations, Broad Channel, Howard Beach, Broadway Junction and Nostrand before making stops at Hoyt and Jay St to connect to the and respectively, it would only be skipping Aqueduct N Conduit (and Racetrack, when open), Rockaway Blvd, 88 St, 80 St, Grant Av, Euclid Av, Utica Av, and High St, it would only be skipping 8 or 9 stations, and saving around 10 minutes on an hour and ten minute long trip to Manhattan (takes about 1 hour and 10 minutes to get from Far Rock to 42nd St during non-rush hours, another 5-10 minutes during rush hour), which is hardly a huge difference and hardly worth running half empty trains for. Even if they take the radical approach and cut out Hoyt-Schermerhorn St and Nostrand Av, that only saves 10 stops and about 12 minutes, while doing a disservice to those who work in Brooklyn and/or need to transfer to the LIRR or the . I am certain that no plan is radical enough to advocate cutting out Howard Beach and Broadway Jct too, but even that would only save another 3 minutes only.

 

I do not think super-express is any good for Rockaway riders (or Lefferts-branch riders or Brooklynites); it is simply an over-ambitious, unrealistic and frankly, not beneficial pipedream. Whoever came up with the super-express idea needs to look at the facts and not insist on it simply because we Rockaway residents feel deprived. A saving of 12 minutes (to Midtown Manhattan) out of a 70 minute ride is not worth the trouble of rescheduling all other and trains, and would probably lead to a dispatcher's nightmare.

[MAA89]

LOVE IT!!!!!!!

 

 

And here are some facts:

 

1. trains were permanently shortened to Euclid and replaced with the Rock Pk shuttle for a reason. Little passenger demand. Why go backwards.

 

That was in 1992. The population of the Rockaways was then about 90,000. As of January 1, 2007, the population was 129,000 persons, and growing at well over 5,000 persons per year. Besides, sending trains to Rockaway Park was always a mistake. That way they can only serve the neighborhoods of Seaside, Rockaway Park and Belle Harbor, which have very small populations and a very low percentage of mass transit users (most use cars, or express bus). While full-time dedicated service to Rockaway Park is still not justified, that in no way affects arguments that the should be extended (to Lefferts Blvd or elsewhere). Just because the was shortened once 17 years ago doesn't mean that's how it should remain forever.

 

2. Center tracks between Liberty Jct and JFK were cut off. and recently too. the MTA has no use for them.

 

Don't know exactly when that happened, but probably after the was abolished. In any case, it only affects the question of super-express peak direction service. Extending the to Lefferts or sending more to the Rockaways will not require center tracks anywhere, and if it does, such tracks does exist up to Rockaway Blvd and (I don't remember exactly) probably Lefferts Blvd.

 

3. Being a Rockaway resident, let me tell you that when a train is running late, and at Euclid, its announced that "due to lateness, this train will only stop at Rockaway Bl, JFK, Broad Channel then Mott Ave", MOST of us get upset!

 

I have lived in the Rockaways for a year and a half and that only happened to me once. It is by no means a common occurrence. I understand you using the example to try and prove that super-express service would not be popular, however, it fails at that. Battery runs only affecting the in Queens does not take into account that most riders from Manhattan would like for there to be no stops in Brooklyn except maybe Jay St, like the old , is that was at all possible. I have mentioned a little while earlier that that would be unrealistic and a disservice to many. However, if the were to be brought back, many would happily pay more to get super-express service to Howard Beach and then wait for the regular . A rare battery run skipping a few stops in Queens is a poor gauge of rider sentiments. If you hate waiting for the next in such a situation, get off at Broad Channel, take the shuttle and transfer to the Q22 bus at Beach 90th St.

 

Think of a few common MTA factors:

How would it affect connecting services?

Is there a passenger demand?

 

As for sending more to the Rockaways, yes, there is passenger demand. The eastern part of the Rockaway peninsula is growing at a very fast pace, and will soon outstrip Lefferts ridership by two to one, and along with Rockaway Park branch riders, Howard Beach and AirTrain riders, Aqueduct NC and Racetrack and Broad Channel, will exceed the Lefferts ridership by almost 3 to 1. To be fair, at least two out of three trains should already be sent to the Rockaways. Even if a quarter of the Rockaways population use the shuttle instead, some train has to get them to Broad Channel in the first place, and besides, the shuttle exists only because of the unusual branching of the Rockaways line at Hammels Wye. If it was possible to send one train to all Rockaway stations (they used to do the Rockaway circuit once upon a time), then the Rockaways line definitely deserves at least 2/3rd of the service.

 

Are extra trainsets available?

 

It is not a question of extra trainsets. It is simply about distributing the current service pattern (for which they obviously have enough trains) in a fairer way than it is. However, it wouldn't make sense to send all the trains that now run to three terminals to Far Rockaway (17 trains starting in Manhattan between 3:59 and 4:57 PM). Instead, they could send about 12 trains to the Rockaways (maybe 9 to Far Rock and 3 to Rock Park) and send the extra trainsets to the , which could improve its frequency to 12 TPH rush hours. This way, there would be an train every 5 minutes, and Lefferts riders transferring to the would get one quickly. Whether the 8 Av local line can handle the extra ©s is the main question.

 

Im not trying to bash people who come up with these "ideas". But trust me, When it comes to Rockaway service suggestions, we, the residents of Rockaway, would like to see these:

 

How to make the train show up faster if i just missed one

how to keep than dammed South channel bridge from malfunctioning after opening

how to make shuttle bus trips faster

How to add more shuttle buses

How the MTA can stop changing shuttle bus patterns!!

how the MTA, if they had the money ofcourse, make a faster line to Manhattan and NOT involving things they have tried already.

 

Rockaway residents have, on average, the longest commute to manhattan, especially if you have to go to midtown.

 

I agree with all of these and suffer from these problems everyday. The headways in the Rockaways is pathetic; apart from the three consecutive trains at Beach 67th St at 7:45am, 7:51am and 7:55am, morning rush hour headways are 12-14 minutes. There are only 4 trains in the entire hour between 8 and 9AM (and ONLY THREE between 9AM and 10AM), even though plenty of people (myself included) go to work or classes at this time. I have felt the pain of missing the 9:50 train at Beach 67th St and having to wait until 10:13 (23 minutes, assuming its not late) for the next one on several occasions. Also, on Memorial Day (supposedly with Sunday service), the headway during the afternoon was 30 minutes, I remember just missing a train and finishing reading a large part of a book I meant to read on the train while waiting on the platform.

 

The only way to improve service would be to force all to the Rockaways. Maybe we wouldn't need as many as now runs in total (Lefferts and Rockaways combined) so they can send the extra cars to some other line (preferably the so it can run to Lefferts Blvd).

 

The South Channel Bridge needs some serious repairs, yet with all the weekend GOs they cannot solve the problem (indeed, I doubt anyone has ever cared to try and fix it). This is just horrendous conduct on the part of the .:mad:

 

Also, shuttle buses should, at night, drop people off where they want to (along the Rockaway Beach Blvd), not just at subway stations, since the Q22 does not run and it isn't entirely safe to walk. A shuttle bus driver taking passengers at Beach 60th St, just a few weeks ago, refused my request to let me off near my house (which is almost exactly halfway between Beach 67th and Beach 90th St and a 10 minute walk from each) even though it was 1 AM and it was raining outside (and I was tired after a 4.5 hour bus ride from Boston and a 1.5 hour train ride from 34 St). The shuttle buses on weekends are overcrowded and do not run smoothly; they must be some of the oldest buses in the system.

 

The only suggestion i have agreed with is activating the old LIRR ROW north of Liberty Ave. But that too, is a dream thatll never happen.

 

Is this the "White Pot Junction"? What are the plans regarding using it and why do you think it will never happen?

 

extending trains, adding trains isnt gonna help us.

itll just add more trains thatll cut infront of us, stall or delay in front of us, and just make our already looooong commute longer!

 

Hardly. The and do not share tracks after High St, until they get to Grant Avenue. In any case, no one has proposed more total service. The idea is simply to increase the number of trains and sending them a longer distance (to Lefferts) and send the reduced number of trains to the Rockaways. This would still provide the Rockaways with shorter headways than present.

 

Now for the one's who just want to see trains with a infront, here's a doable solution, rename the lefferts to .

 

I would hate for that to happen. It is insulting (because of the presumption that most people cannot read the rollsigns beyond the service bullet) to the average rider to be told his train has been renamed because the last three stations do not match the other trains' route, even though they share the same track until then. Nothing should be done solely to benefit tourists (let them take the or the to the AirTrain if they are confused). Renaming will simply allow the to wash their hands off the matter of reassigning Lefferts and Rockaways services, as they will claim these are now separate lines and no further work will be done.

 

In conlusion, if you wanna make a thoughtful suggestion about any rockaway service, heres the most important factor to think about:

 

Will it realistically make the service faster

In Rockaway, thats our number one question

 

Sorry for the rant, but i feel it needed to be said from someone who actually LIVES in rockaway.

 

Do you know one thing that will make everyone's commute shorter? Not having to wait. Recently it took me one and a half hours to get home from West 4th St on the 8 Av line. I ended up taking all three trains (the Lefferts because I didn't want to wait in the hot station, the Far Rockaway train because I need to get into the Rockaways, and the Rock Park train that arrived before the shuttle at Broad Channel because these days I get off at Beach 90th St since the platform at Beach 67th is closed). By my calculations, I spent at least 25 minutes waiting (especially because there were two consecutive Lefferts bound trains before the two Rockaway trains). Aside from a short bus ride (on the Q22), I only spent about 58 minutes on the trains. Fully 36% of the commute time was spent waiting. The time spent waiting or walking to the bus stop and on the bus (32 minutes) was a full 55% of the time spent on a train (58 minutes). THIS IS THE ISSUE. No sane person would want to transfer twice, from one train to another to another all labeled and have to wait 25 minutes for the privilege. Unfortunately I have to. If all trains were sent to the Rockaways, I wouldn't have to go through this. THAT is your realistic solution. Not some super-express that will take 25 minutes to show up. The should, without delay, make drastic changes to the broken system that is the southern termini of the train. The long commute is bad enough, but please don't make it worse by forcing numerous transfers to trains that refuse to show up on a frequent basis. I am resigned to my hour-long commute. I just don't want a 90 minute one.

[Far Rock Depot]

MAA89,

Thank you for taking the time for looking in detail the debate on this. Your one of he fortunate ones in rockaway who seems to not have gone thru the worst of it. Ive lived in Rockaway for 19 years. i went to high school in east midtown, attended college in lower Manhattan and he Bronx, and have worked in Greenwich village 8 of the last 9 years. I actually use the W4St stop myself. Ima tell you, you are lucky to have only been out here a year and a half. I have frequetly commuted in peak directions, local and express, have had delt with the old "round robin", every shuttle bus route ever conceived for rockaway, and have reversed commuted (which is my current schedule now). Its from all of this experience, i feel that as a non-employee, i can be valid with the points ive laid out.

 

First, in 1992 when the C still went to rock park, yes, for passenger demand, sending a direct train was low. and yes, it may have more passengers now, But you still have to find where to put the trains when they arrive at terminals, then you have junctions where train routes split. Line ups can be problematic when trains are frequent. The MTA felt it was easier to having a shuttle that lays up just outside BC and pull it right after an A leaves. That frees up Liberty Jct (@ Rockaway Blvd) a little. It didnt then. it wont work now. You'll have crowded slow trains. Heads will get off the C before paking onto express As. Might as well give them a chance to get a seat on the A earlier in the trip.

 

Second, The center tracks were cut of after the new JFK station was finished. Its true you dont need center tracks for a super express, but the was super express, and it was a quick ride cause when it ran, the express tracks along Fulton was used rush hours only. I would like to see how it would run now. Not as fast as before. You would have to have an A leave jay street, then a C leave jay street, then a longer than normal headway for a to be able to run super express before it catches up to that A. This would be one of the problems with a super express. now imagine scheduling it so that it doesnt catch up to it be Broad Channel.

 

Third, Battery runs, youve only had been on one. I had 4 last week alone. each time, i had to get off, with many others, and wait for the next one. a battery run thru brooklyn is not the problem, its the stops that would be skipped after Euclid is the problem for the reason i stated above. Would many pay extra for a like express, i doubt it, when the bridge opens and the train is delayed, listen to how many complain about paying the 2.25 alone. theres something like that and its called the LIRR. I know if i could afford the railroad, id use it! And getting of at 90th st? So ima get off, take a shuttle one long stop, get off, walk a block, ad wait for a crowded bus? Ive learned the hard way a long time ago that takes longer. And what does one do when they commute home at 1 or 2am? no Q22.

 

fouth, the question of extra trainsets is always a factor when the MTA is making service changes. without the trainsets, you cant add service. remember when the G ran 6 R46 cars per set? they run only 4 now. where'd the extra cars go? Ride the V. I do like the 2 to 1 ratio in rockaway to lefferts trains, but having back to back trains may tend to have moments of back ups at Mott Ave. And if that first train is late, it'll delay the second one, and then you will have a train leaving Mott late. Its kind of a ripple effect.

 

i went thru the same headway issues in the mid morning as you do. unfortunately, there seems to be nothing that the MTA could do about it. Remember, those headway take into consideration that by the train gets to Hoyt St, 2 trains cut infront of it. in between 2 rockaway trains will be a train out of Lefferts and then a C train.

 

the Shuttle buses, well, when they let you off anywhere, they are being really nice, cause most of them Wont. Why? Well, its basically about liability in the long run. Shuttle buses replace subway service. They are allowed ONLY to pick up and drop off at Designated Stops representing that station. They technically arent subjected to "request-a-stop". why? again, liability. I worked as an intern in the law department of NYCT. If a passenger of a Shuttle bus is dropped off at a location other than the designated subway shuttle stop, and is injured, the driver, and company is held accountable because it is not covered by the insurance. Its replacing a subway route. does the subway stop here? When a shuttle bus B/O drops you off at a different stop on a shuttle bus, please thank him or her. i do. They are truly being kind. The only other route that isnt a part of the request-a-stop program is the Q53.

 

As far as renaming a route, well i never said that was a fix fr increased service, it was a fix for less confusing service. It may seem insulting, but its true. Most people dont read destination signs, service alert signs, or even listen to announcements. its all too common. ride the A as much as i have for almost 2 decades and you too will see what i mean.

 

that hour and a half ride from W4 you had, thats a noramal, no-delay trip for me. This is why i become a little passionate on this subject. un realistic ideas like a super express wont do. Logical idea like increasing headways is a short term answer. The LIRR ROW (yes, the one that leads to White pot Jct) is an idea i favor. an alernate route to manhattan. and a direct one to midtown. Heres a little history on that...

 

ever heard about the extra platform at Roosevelt Ave On the QBL, well it was to be used for Rockaway service via Middle village and the ROW down into rockaway. I am providing a link to a site with a Photo tour and a little history of the ROW here. Now why would it not be built? Well the link to the article you've provided states it

" There are many reasons that White Pot is not a viable alternative for Rockaway. First of all, the politicians in central Queens, who seem to have more juice than we do, are opposed to the plan. Secondly, Mayor Mike Bloomberg has already decided that the long-unused roadbed will become a greenway park and bicycle path." Then theres the residents who dont want a subway "in their backyard"( ive seen the ROW, its mostly adjacent to commercial property.) , and parts of it has been demolished.

 

it was great to read points and opinions on Rockaway service with someone who actually uses Rockaway service. i hope that as you continue to live in rockaway, you wont have to deal with the ridiculousness that most of us down here have been thru. The MTA chooses to ignore Rockaway riders. Railfans who have never been down here on a regular basis talk like its so easy to fix service down here.

An A super express?

extra routes on 2 tracks?

 

C'mon son!

[Milan]

As many have said best is to connect to LIRR ROW &QB local.

On its own this will not fly.Better is to combine with other proposals.

My suggestion.

6 track(4 for LIRR & 2 for TA) from Laurelton to mainline LIRR (at whitepot jnct?)

and a 4track(2&2) from mainline to LaGuardia.

Connection will be via conduit ave/belt parkway &rockaway blvd&woodhaven blvd&LIRR ROW&junction blvd/94th st.

 

LIRR southern branches will use this.

A subway new line from LGA to JFK.(federal circle)

Rockaway to V line.

Extend L via FULTON line(short connection from bushwick/aberdeen stn. to

liberty ave stn of A&C) and the new connection to Laurelton.

Have canarsie go thru brooklyn bway.

 

This will serve 4 groups

a)rockaway to midtown via QB local

b)airport riders to both LGA & JFK

c)will give LIRR southern branch riders a bypass from congested

Jamaica station.

d)some relief to southeast Queens riders.

 

Obviously will be costly.