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duelingdragons

So.. why ARE the R68's slow?

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From what everyone here says, and from personal experience as well, it just seems that R68's are slower trains.

 

What's the deal?? Every time I see (or saw) an R40 (:D on the Brighton, it would fly by.. an R68 would crawl.

 

Obviously signals have a lot to do with this, but is there any particular reason for the R68's slugishness? Are they heavier trains or something?

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From what everyone here says, and from personal experience as well, it just seems that R68's are slower trains.

 

What's the deal?? Every time I see (or saw) an R40 (:D on the Brighton, it would fly by.. an R68 would crawl.

 

Obviously signals have a lot to do with this, but is there any particular reason for the R68's slugishness? Are they heavier trains or something?

 

It have nothing to with the timers....its the heaviest cars its why they are so slow....this is why I don't like riding them!

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Hence the name 'Hippos', The 68s were at one point the heaviest cars in the system. However, the 160s are just as heavy, or they might even take the lead in weight... I love my 68/68A's :D:tup:

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Hence the name 'Hippos', The 68s were at one point the heaviest cars in the system. However, the 160s are just as heavy, or they might even take the lead in weight... I love my 68/68A's :D:tup:

 

=)

I love the way they look if that counts for anything!!

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So what is it that made the 60-70's cars so fast (R32-R46)?

 

 

R32's especially. Anyone who's been on a Manhattan Bound E in the rush hour with a good T/O knows that they hit 35-40mph between Roosevelt and Queens Plaza and they are pretty anti aerodynamics.

 

Is the propulsion? Or LOL the momentum of the the people in side rocking back and fourth due to the rockiness of that section.:D

 

 

 

 

 

 

And 68's are kinda like an old Cadillac, real smooth ride and if you give em room... there's no stoppin em.:D

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Hence the name 'Hippos', The 68s were at one point the heaviest cars in the system. However, the 160s are just as heavy, or they might even take the lead in weight... I love my 68/68A's :D:tup:

 

The R160s are actually heavier than the R68s, they are slowly destroying the manhattan bridge....:D

 

And I love my R68/68As as well <3

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So what is it that made the 60-70's cars so fast (R32-R46)?

 

 

R32's especially. Anyone who's been on a Manhattan Bound E in the rush hour with a good T/O knows that they hit 35-40mph between Roosevelt and Queens Plaza and they are pretty anti aerodynamics.

 

Is the propulsion? Or LOL the momentum of the the people in side rocking back and fourth due to the rockiness of that section.:D

 

The carbodies of the R32 are much lighter, plus they are 60 feet. The weight difference is like 12,000 lbs. Remember, budd is known for light weight efficient designs! :D

 

- A

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The R160s are actually heavier than the R68s, they are slowly destroying the manhattan bridge....:D

 

And I love my R68/68As as well <3

 

They need to install those braces ASAP.

 

- A

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The R160s are actually heavier than the R68s, they are slowly destroying the manhattan bridge....:D

 

And I love my R68/68As as well <3

 

ACTUALLY, The R68/R68A cars are the heaviest cars(R68A actually at 93,000 and a few hundred pounds.) to run in the system right now. The only car type to ever surpass them was the Triplexes at 213,000 and a few hundred pounds. The R160s are at 80,000 pounds.

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So what is it that made the 60-70's cars so fast (R32-R46)?

 

 

R32's especially. Anyone who's been on a Manhattan Bound E in the rush hour with a good T/O knows that they hit 35-40mph between Roosevelt and Queens Plaza and they are pretty anti aerodynamics.

 

Is the propulsion? Or LOL the momentum of the the people in side rocking back and fourth due to the rockiness of that section.:D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And 68's are kinda like an old Cadillac, real smooth ride and if you give em room... there's no stoppin em.:D

The heavy weight contributes to a slower acceleration, from my viewpoint. It still has a maximum operating velocity of 55 mph, but it just starts off slowing, giving the impression that it is slow.

And given the equation F= MA, if the hippos were ever to have the acceleration like that of the R32, that would mean a much larger force. Which would require more power to move it.

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An R68/R68A car weighs 92,720 pounds each whereas an R160a/160B car weighs 85,200 lbs each.

 

8 car R68/68A train = 8 x 92,720lbs = 741,160 lbs.

10 car R160a/160b train = 10 x 85,200 = 852,000 lbs.

8 car R160a train = 8 x 85,200 = 681,600 lbs.

 

Oh wow so the R160A/B car trains are heavier than the R68/68As, if the trains have the same lengths.

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I think that the R160s are faster than the R68s because each individual car weighs less than R68 cars and therefore accelerates faster. This way, it can also lessen the pressure on the Manhattan Bridge.

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i agree with Brighton i love the R68-68A's too didnt realize they were so heavy, perhaps the MTA ought to go back to Budd to build their cars though ive seen 68's bringing the ruckus when the (Q) was express on the brighton line zipping by Avenue J as i stood there waiting on a (D)

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From what everyone here says, and from personal experience as well, it just seems that R68's are slower trains.

 

What's the deal?? Every time I see (or saw) an R40 (;) on the Brighton, it would fly by.. an R68 would crawl.

 

Obviously signals have a lot to do with this, but is there any particular reason for the R68's slugishness? Are they heavier trains or something?

 

The R68 isn't slow. It just feels slow since it's heavy. However, if you use the stations as a frame of reference then you'll discover that the R68's are as fast as the R40's.

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take into account motor power:

8 car R68 = 32x115hp motors, or 3680 hp total for 741,760 lbs, or 201.56 lb/hp

10 car R160 = 40x150hp motors, or 6000 hp total for 852,000 lbs, or 142 lb/hp

 

And about the first question about why the R32-R46 are "so fast":

maybe not the R44-46, but the R32-R42 are lightweight 60 foot cars, so here's their power:mass ratios...in parenthesis

 

R32: 79,930 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 79,930:460 (173.76lb/hp)

R38: 77,420 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 77,420:460 (168.3lb/hp)

R40S: 77,695 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 77,695:460 (168.9lb/hp)

R40M: 78,030 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 78,030:460 (169.6lb/hp)

R42: 74,388.5 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 74,388.5:460 (161.71lb/hp)

 

*assuming all 10 car trains

 

R44= 86,740 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 86,740:460 (188.565lb/hp)

R46= 88,835 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 88,835:460 (193.12lb/hp)

 

And before GOH (as in when air conditioners were added), cars weighed an average of 10,000 lbs LESS, and when coupled to the fact that field shunting was still in wide use, cars were extremely fast.

 

For field shunting dummies, here's the link: http://www.railway-technical.com/tract-01.shtml look under field weakening.

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eh i feel like the R44s can fly if they want to..i love that speedy run through between Euclid and Liberty Ave. Wouldn't mind seeing some R68s on that line at all either.

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I can still enjoy my rides on the R44 (A) trains...quiet and fast!

 

I have to say the hippos look really cool at least.

R44s are the best in quietness and comfort. I grew up with them and if you ride on a particular spot, you won't even hear the propulsion as it accelerates. They feel just like the SMS R46s, except the R44s have better suspension. As for R68s, I choose R68As over R68s for extreme quietness.

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take into account motor power:

8 car R68 = 32x115hp motors, or 3680 hp total for 741,760 lbs, or 201.56 lb/hp

10 car R160 = 40x150hp motors, or 6000 hp total for 852,000 lbs, or 142 lb/hp

 

And about the first question about why the R32-R46 are "so fast":

maybe not the R44-46, but the R32-R42 are lightweight 60 foot cars, so here's their power:mass ratios...in parenthesis

 

R32: 79,930 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 79,930:460 (173.76lb/hp)

R38: 77,420 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 77,420:460 (168.3lb/hp)

R40S: 77,695 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 77,695:460 (168.9lb/hp)

R40M: 78,030 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 78,030:460 (169.6lb/hp)

R42: 74,388.5 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 74,388.5:460 (161.71lb/hp)

 

*assuming all 10 car trains

 

R44= 86,740 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 86,740:460 (188.565lb/hp)

R46= 88,835 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 88,835:460 (193.12lb/hp)

 

And before GOH (as in when air conditioners were added), cars weighed an average of 10,000 lbs LESS, and when coupled to the fact that field shunting was still in wide use, cars were extremely fast.

 

For field shunting dummies, here's the link: http://www.railway-technical.com/tract-01.shtml look under field weakening.

 

Yes yes. The R160's have a lot more power than the R68's which is why they are so fast.

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The R160s are actually heavier than the R68s, they are slowly destroying the manhattan bridge....;)

 

And I love my R68/68As as well <3

 

Really? is there proof of this?

 

And if thats true that would suck because they just finished fixing after 20 years!

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take into account motor power:

8 car R68 = 32x115hp motors, or 3680 hp total for 741,760 lbs, or 201.56 lb/hp

10 car R160 = 40x150hp motors, or 6000 hp total for 852,000 lbs, or 142 lb/hp

 

And about the first question about why the R32-R46 are "so fast":

maybe not the R44-46, but the R32-R42 are lightweight 60 foot cars, so here's their power:mass ratios...in parenthesis

 

R32: 79,930 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 79,930:460 (173.76lb/hp)

R38: 77,420 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 77,420:460 (168.3lb/hp)

R40S: 77,695 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 77,695:460 (168.9lb/hp)

R40M: 78,030 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 78,030:460 (169.6lb/hp)

R42: 74,388.5 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 74,388.5:460 (161.71lb/hp)

 

*assuming all 10 car trains

 

R44= 86,740 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 86,740:460 (188.565lb/hp)

R46= 88,835 lbs per car with 4x115hp motors for 88,835:460 (193.12lb/hp)

 

And before GOH (as in when air conditioners were added), cars weighed an average of 10,000 lbs LESS, and when coupled to the fact that field shunting was still in wide use, cars were extremely fast.

 

For field shunting dummies, here's the link: http://www.railway-technical.com/tract-01.shtml look under field weakening.

 

thanks for posting this...spared me a lot of explaining.

 

in short, it's not just that the R68/A's are heavier cars individually, it's that no matter how you break it down, there is less "power" being applied to each "mass" of train.

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Hence the name 'Hippos', The 68s were at one point the heaviest cars in the system. However, the 160s are just as heavy, or they might even take the lead in weight... I love my 68/68A's ;):tup:

 

i agree with you. i love R68/R68A's!!!!!:tup::P

 

The R160s are actually heavier than the R68s, they are slowly destroying the manhattan bridge....:(

 

And I love my R68/68As as well <3

 

Thank you!!! R68/R68A's are just perfect for me!!!;):tup:

 

Well, the R-68 is heavy but I like the slowness since it doesn't seem like I am going to fall of my seat when starting and stopping... Smooth and Steady R-68 is awesome, :)!

 

exactly.

 

The R68 isn't slow. It just feels slow since it's heavy. However, if you use the stations as a frame of reference then you'll discover that the R68's are as fast as the R40's.

 

Very True.

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