FlushingExpress Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share #26 Posted April 1, 2009 it was the middle of the day and there were not that many people on the train. no one even asked to sit next to the woman being arrested. i believe the cop went too far with brute force, but the woman should not have answered back. she could have just placed the bag on her lap and/or under the seat and the whole thing could have been avoided. the cop could have just written her a ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted April 1, 2009 Share #27 Posted April 1, 2009 It's not brute force. What did you want the cop to do? Tell the woman "Pretty please, will you put these handcuffs on."? The cop's use of force was acceptable. He needed to arrest her and she was resisting arrest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlushingExpress Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share #28 Posted April 1, 2009 that is the thing. i do not think he should have arrested her just because she was occupying more than one seat in the first place. now if she was trying to run away, then yeah, i would have understand brute force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenEleven Posted April 1, 2009 Share #29 Posted April 1, 2009 that is the thing. i do not think he should have arrested her just because she was occupying more than one seat in the first place. now if she was trying to run away, then yeah, i would have understand brute force. Regardless, she broke 2 laws in one go. 1. You need an ID I believe when you hit 13. (High School IDs work) 2. You can't occupy more than two seats. - It's in the Rules of Conduct. She failed to comply with both and resisted so the officer had every right to arrest her. Being aggressive is one thing, but you need to do what you need to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted April 1, 2009 Share #30 Posted April 1, 2009 Cops ruin America! Careful with that statement, don't make generalisations with a few cops. There are good and bad cops, and they all don't ruin America. I'd rather live in a society with cops where some are corrupt than say a society with no cops at all. The woman has every right to file a complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted April 2, 2009 Share #31 Posted April 2, 2009 that is the thing. i do not think he should have arrested her just because she was occupying more than one seat in the first place. now if she was trying to run away, then yeah, i would have understand brute force. She was probably charged with resisting arrest and failure to comply with a police officer NOT because of the bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7LineFan Posted April 2, 2009 Share #32 Posted April 2, 2009 She was probably charged with resisting arrest and failure to comply with a police officer NOT because of the bags. That's what I said before. It seems that people have looked over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted April 2, 2009 Share #33 Posted April 2, 2009 Sadly the charges might get dropped because the DAs in this city seem to hate the police. Hell in Brooklyn, they often throw out assault on an officer charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelham Bay Dave Posted April 2, 2009 Share #34 Posted April 2, 2009 I think overall the NYPD does a good job with the condictions they work in. I deal with Police officers daily and most are nice and do thier job. However I seen two cases where I tought officer acted reckless. In both cases Police officers pulled thier guns out on board the train and the person wasn't doing anything treating to the officers hands in pain site but both cases the person question the officers anthorty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred G Posted April 2, 2009 Share #35 Posted April 2, 2009 It sounds like an AOL fantasy hookup to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted April 2, 2009 Share #36 Posted April 2, 2009 Slightly off-topic, new subway cars are always hard to tell which is one side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted April 2, 2009 Share #37 Posted April 2, 2009 I don't believe any of his dumb story unless I read something about it in the paper. This sounds like one of his fantasy blogs filled with nothing but hot air. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted April 2, 2009 Share #38 Posted April 2, 2009 Slightly off-topic, new subway cars are always hard to tell which is one side? What do you mean? I'm confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot Posted April 2, 2009 Share #39 Posted April 2, 2009 I don't believe any of his dumb story unless I read something about it in the paper. This sounds like one of his fantasy blogs filled with nothing but hot air. :mad: sounds reasonable to me. I doubt the NYPDs ability to enforce subway rules, they are not law. Additionally (for clarification's sake) you don't need to have an ID on you at all times. You don't even need to present one to a police officer if they ask so long as you provide them with your full name and place of residence if asked. This isn't Russia where you need to always have a passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zman Posted April 3, 2009 Share #40 Posted April 3, 2009 sounds reasonable to me. I doubt the NYPDs ability to enforce subway rules, they are not law. Additionally (for clarification's sake) you don't need to have an ID on you at all times. You don't even need to present one to a police officer if they ask so long as you provide them with your full name and place of residence if asked. This isn't Russia where you need to always have a passport. New York State is one of 24 states in which a police officer can arrest the offender simply because he/she is not carrying identification, or refuses to show identification upon demand by a peace officer. One notable court case is Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada - 2004, which upheld the right for a state to have a stop-and-identify law. The lady was arrested for failing to produce identification, failing to obey a police officer, resisting arrest and disorderly conduct. According to how the original story was told, it does appear that the officer was justified in his usage of force. And the sad part is that the lady brought it all upon herself because of her defiant stand. Hope she liked the green bologna sandwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted April 3, 2009 Share #41 Posted April 3, 2009 What do you mean? I'm confused. I meant bench. Other cars R32/R38, R40/R40M, R68/R68A, R62/R62A, R46/R44 are seats have line to tell which side you have to stay on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted April 3, 2009 Share #42 Posted April 3, 2009 I meant bench.Other cars R32/R38, R40/R40M, R68/R68A, R62/R62A, R46/R44 are seats have line to tell which side you have to stay on. I'm still confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenEleven Posted April 3, 2009 Share #43 Posted April 3, 2009 I'm still confused. He means the bench against bucket type seating. The paintjobs on the buckets are divided up to tell where the seat actually is and where the person may occupy. Bench seating are those SMEE seats (outside the R62/68 family) Those benches doesn't have lines. It's just find a spot and sit. As long as you don't take up an unnecessary amount of space where people can fit, then its ok to sit however you like. - Provided you don't break one of those other conduct rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot Posted April 3, 2009 Share #44 Posted April 3, 2009 New York State is one of 24 states in which a police officer can arrest the offender simply because he/she is not carrying identification, or refuses to show identification upon demand by a peace officer. One notable court case is Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada - 2004, which upheld the right for a state to have a stop-and-identify law. The lady was arrested for failing to produce identification, failing to obey a police officer, resisting arrest and disorderly conduct. According to how the original story was told, it does appear that the officer was justified in his usage of force. And the sad part is that the lady brought it all upon herself because of her defiant stand. Hope she liked the green bologna sandwich. http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi?COMMONQUERY=LAWS § 140.50 Temporary questioning of persons in public places; search for weapons. 1. In addition to the authority provided by this article for making an arrest without a warrant, a police officer may stop a person in a public place located within the geographical area of such officer's employment when he reasonably suspects that such person is committing, has committed or is about to commit either a felony or a misdemeanor defined in the penal law, and may demand of him his name, address and an explanation of his conduct. Stop and Identify laws (by and large) require only name, address and an explanation. You don't need to have an ID, and you certainly can't be arrested for not having one and/or not presenting one. Furthermore, there has to be "reasonable suspicion" that a crime has been committed or is about to be committed before an officer can even ask. In the case you mention the officer had enough evidence to have a reasonable suspicion that something was up and the law stuck. But, several state appeals courts have struck down these types of laws, or narrowed them considerably because they were deemed too vague. The point is a police officer can't just walk up and ask you to show him "papers." Not all states have these laws, and a good lawyer (and several dissenting judges from the above mentioned cases) could make a convincing argument as to why "stop-and-identify" laws violate the 5th amendment to the Constitution. Regardless, after you provide the limited information you are no longer required to even open your mouth for a police officer. The more I read the story from the OP, the less true I think it is. The truth is cops generally aren't bad people, and they certainly are not out to enforce things like how many seats you take up on the subway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted April 3, 2009 Share #45 Posted April 3, 2009 The truth is cops generally aren't bad people, and they certainly are not out to enforce things like how many seats you take up on the subway.If he was a transit cop, then yes, he is out to enforce how many seats you take up. It's a violation of MTA rules to occupy more than one seat. It is a violation to -Place one's foot on the seat of a subway, bus, or platform bench; occupy more than one seat or place bags on an empty seat when doing so would interfere with transit operations or the comfort of other customers http://www.mta.info/nyct/rules/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R46CAR6152 Posted April 3, 2009 Share #46 Posted April 3, 2009 So here is what happened. i was on a Brooklyn-bound F train earlier today when a cop walked into my car at 34th Street-Herald Square. he noticed a woman occupying two seats and orders her to use one seat only. when she refuses, the officer and the woman begin bickering and it escalates when the officer starts blowing up on her face. after a few minutes, he asks her for some ID and when she says she does not have any, he handcuffes her and then drags her out of the train and pinning her by a trash can. she continues to resist arrest as the train finally pulled out, but my point is the officer used brute force (even looked like a rape at one point) to handcuff a woman, drag her out, and hold the train and all of its passengers just because the lady was occupying more than one seat. tell me, do you think the office went too far or not? Dude are you serious he just arrested her for no apprent reason.these cops now a days are just beating up inocient people for no reason at all that ediot handcuffed he and draged her out of a crowed subway car just because she was occupying two buket seats ordering her to move to one seat. this office took a small situtation which was just down right supid and disgracefull and that is assault.what do they think new yorkers would say about them now when they want to go around and beat up a human being for one little reason which does not make any sence at all thats why us as railfans got to all ways look at for these cops while taking pictures around the subway thats crazy that officer sould get arrested and locked up jail for he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot Posted April 3, 2009 Share #47 Posted April 3, 2009 If he was a transit cop, then yes, he is out to enforce how many seats you take up. It's a violation of MTA rules to occupy more than one seat. It is my understanding that the most a transit cop could do at that point is have you removed from the system and give you a fine (of up to $25) for breaking the rules. To my knowledge, MTA rules are not laws, they are rules. In order to be prosecuted you would need to not only break an MTA rules, but break a law as well. For example, jumping fare is against the MTA rules and is technically stealing, which is illegal. At which point you could be charged with a misdemeanor. However, subway rules as law or not, it doesn't detract from the point that you don't need an ID to walk around in the city or state of New York, or anywhere else in the US for that matter. The most a cop could ask you for is your name, address and purpose. If the OP's story is true, the woman can make a strong case for an overreaction by the police and having been wrongfully detained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted April 3, 2009 Share #48 Posted April 3, 2009 Transit Cops are part of the NYPD's Transit Bureau, don't confuse them with MTA Police. They have the same powers as any other NYPD officer. As per http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/crime_prevention/job_of_a_transit_PO.shtml The officers move through the stations continually, constantly on the alert for problems of any kind, and ensuring that all persons are complying both with the usual laws and also with the separate Rules of Conduct for the transit system. The lady was not following the Rules of Conduct, the P/O was enforcing the rules, she didn't comply with the P/O and proceeded to resist arrest once the P/O decided he was going to arrest her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot Posted April 3, 2009 Share #49 Posted April 3, 2009 Transit Cops are part of the NYPD's Transit Bureau, don't confuse them with MTA Police. They have the same powers as any other NYPD officer. As per http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/crime_prevention/job_of_a_transit_PO.shtml The lady was not following the Rules of Conduct, the P/O was enforcing the rules, she didn't comply with the P/O and proceeded to resist arrest once the P/O decided he was going to arrest her. Again, to the best of my knowledge, the rules of conduct are not law. You can't be arrested for taking up more than one seat, the most that could happen is removal from the system and a fine from the MTA. Non-compliance is another issue altogether, but both of these things have nothing to do with needing an ID. I'm convinced this never happened anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTR Admiralty Posted April 3, 2009 Share #50 Posted April 3, 2009 He means the bench against bucket type seating. The paintjobs on the buckets are divided up to tell where the seat actually is and where the person may occupy. Bench seating are those SMEE seats (outside the R62/68 family) Those benches doesn't have lines. It's just find a spot and sit. As long as you don't take up an unnecessary amount of space where people can fit, then its ok to sit however you like. - Provided you don't break one of those other conduct rules. Yeah I know, however his original question still puzzles me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.