NYC Transit tests 11-car train as means of alleviating 'F' line overcrowding

[Trainspotter]

An F train grows in Brooklyn.

 

NYC Transit Wednesday added an 11th subway car to a regular 10-car train to test how it navigates the series of signals and stations along the line.

 

Transit managers - who see a potential to increase the number of riders ferried during peak rush hours - were scheduled to launch the "Long Train" test before midnight Wednesday night at the Church Ave. station in Brooklyn.

 

The Long Train was scheduled to run the rails through Manhattan to eastern Queens and back until 5 a.m.

 

Whatever hopes officials have for the experiment, the financial woes of the agency, and its parent organization, the MTA, limit its capabilities.

 

"We obviously neither have the capital nor operating funding to implement anything like this in the foreseeable future," NYC Transit President Howard Roberts said.

 

"We are just looking at feasibility for planning purposes," Roberts added.

 

The test train wasn't going to pick up passengers - and for good reason. In some stations, the train wasn't expected to fit completely.

 

Eleven-car express trains ran along the and lines for approximately seven years in the 1950s.

 

Along one stretch in Brooklyn, the last car was closed off because the stations platforms were 600 feet long while the trains were 660 feet in length.

 

Given the current, antiquated signal system, transit officials have said they can't safely increase the frequency of trains during peak travel times.

 

The Long Train is one of several tactics that could provide much needed relief from overcrowding, Gene Russianoff of the Straphangers Campaign said.

 

"Albany could make these things a quicker reality by providing decent funding for transit," Russianoff said.

 

BY Pete Donohue

DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

April 2nd 2009

[metsfan]

Very cool, i like the idea a lot. You could park the front of the train 2 doors on and 2 doors off if the signaling allowed, i think currently if T/O advances past the station end signal that lane of direction gets a red 3-4 stations back.

 

In any case, i think this is a great idea, and should be implemented where possible. Maybe bring back old routes that stop where the 11 car train fits on that line. <R> (Q6).

 

- A

[INDman]

Sounds like a cool idea, but once the train goes south of Church Ave. they can't use that last car. Along the BMT Culver line, a 600' train just makes it into the platforms that are usually about 610' long..

If someone wants, I can post all the platform lengths along to the line.

[Urbanfortitude]

the ....I'm glad I don't have to rely on it anymore. It never seemed to do me justice. But for the ones that do, I hope this improves the ridership experience for them.

[Y2Julio]

The problem with the is the damn kids in the morning that don't move IN to the car but just stand by the doors in groups blocking people from entering and leaving.

[UlmerPark B6]

A good idea for a few months, but not a long-term idea, since the extra car might displace some cars.

[mark1447]

ouch we got a new rebirth, isnt most th ave stations and Queenbs blvd requires only 10 cars?

[Art Vandelay]

As far as I can see, this test is about the length of the R179 more than anything else.

[MTR Admiralty]

They did run 11-car & trains in the 1950's. The problem was that it required two C/R's.

 

Like, one in the middle and one in the end? Since the last car couldn't open its doors at most stations?

[INDman]

ouch we got a new rebirth, isnt most th ave stations and Queens blvd requires only 10 cars?

 

The IND built all there stations to handle 11 car trains. Most platforms at IND stations are still 660' long but over time, some have had structures built near the ends.

[MTR Admiralty]

The IND built all there stations to handle 11 car trains. Most platforms at IND stations are still 660' long but over time, some have had structures built near the ends.

 

But the Culver stations (from Ditmas onwards) are extended to 600'-615' feet. My question of concern is, given the fact (from 33rd Street) that only Herald Sq and 2nd Avenue can handle the extra car, how much good will it do? I mean, the extra car can't open its doors at other stations.

[INDman]

give me some time and I can get the plat form lenghts of all the line stations. 34th and 2nd Ave are not the only stations that cn handle 11 60' cars. My station, 15th Street- Prospect Park is 662 feet long and 7th Ave. is 660 feet exact.

[MTR Admiralty]

give me some time and I can get the plat form lenghts of all the line stations. 34th and 2nd Ave are not the only stations that cn handle 11 60' cars. My station, 15th Street- Prospect Park is 662 feet long and 7th Ave. is 660 feet exact.

 

Interesting... now:

How are they do this? (Train formation)

[metsfan]

The problem with the is the damn kids in the morning that don't move IN to the car but just stand by the doors in groups blocking people from entering and leaving.

 

Door leaches irritate me. Both the ones when you are trying to board, or alight.

 

- A

[KTrainExp]

Interesting... now:

How are they do this? (Train formation)

 

Shoot up a couple of R32s and R42s. They can't do it on the R160s because they're married pairs.

[MTR Admiralty]

Shoot up a couple of R32s and R42s. They can't do it on the R160s because they're married pairs.

 

Nah, the R32s and R42s are the married pairs. The R160s are in sets. ABABABABABA?

[SevenEleven]

Shoot up a couple of R32s and R42s. They can't do it on the R160s because they're married pairs.

 

That's permanently coupled. Married pairs are what the SMEEs use.

 

Married Pair are 1:2-2:1 - 1:2-2:1 - 1:2-2:1 - 1:2-2:1

 

Permanently Coupled are: A-B-B-A :: A-B-B-A or A-B-B-B-A :: A-B-B-B-A

[mark1447]

The IND built all there stations to handle 11 car trains. Most platforms at IND stations are still 660' long but over time, some have had structures built near the ends.

 

so this means 75 ft cars can be 11 cars as well right?

[7LineFan]

so this means 75 ft cars can be 11 cars as well right?

 

Nope. 8 75' cars are already 600'. 9 would be 675, longer than a 660' platform.

[MTR Admiralty]

so this means 75 ft cars can be 11 cars as well right?

 

No. That's too much. 750' (10 75 foot trains) are too long already. Another 75 footer attached? No way.

Plus, 75 footers are built into coupled sets and some AA pairs. They could form 10 cars, but not 11.

[Eric B]

I thought for sure this was some "late April fool's" joke (even with the supposed newspaper article), but now I've just heard this on NY1!

 

Yeah; how in the world did they do this? The only thing I could think of is to break apart a married pair and create a three car unit. (Since the old married pairs are on their way out anyway, so they could do experiments like that with retired sets).

 

I had said they should have kept the 11's, which could then have run with the 32's to make odd numbered car consists.

[Tbirdbassist]

Well to make a say a train of R44 and R46's 9 cars you would have to take an A car and change the coupler. It's doable because all the SIRT R44's are single units.

 

Same can be done for the SMEE cars. Split apart a married pair and put a regular coupler on the C/R end.

 

 

Btw, what the hell are the styles of couplers called on the NYC subway? All I know is that I've never seen them on another system. At least the older cars, I think the NTT's share couplers with other systems.

[7LineFan]

Btw, what the hell are the styles of couplers called on the NYC subway? All I know is that I've never seen them on another system. At least the older cars, I think the NTT's share couplers with other systems.

 

H-2-C, I believe. All cars except the R44s and R46s have them.

[INDman]

New techs! Eastern Division runs ABBAABBA and the other lines with new techs run ABBBAABBBA. So to male the train 11 cars, just add another "B" car in the train set.

SMEE trains use an H2C while the R44/46 and NTTS use an Ohio Brass coupler.

[INDman]

660' station list.

179th Street-663'

169th Street-627' due to added structures on the platform.

Parsons Blvd-660'

Sutphin-Hillside- under 660' due too ply woods structure

Van Wyck-661'

Kew Gardens-660'

75th Ave-

71st Ave-660'

Roosevelt Ave-668'

21st Street-Queensbridge-s/b+607' n/b=615'

Roosevelt Island-614'

Lex-63rd Street-s/b=615' n/b=622'

57th Street-615'

47th-50th Streets-?

42nd Street-660'

34th Street-660'+

23rd Street-657'

14th Street-660'

West 4th Street-660'

BWay-Laffyet-654'

2nd Ave-670'

Delancey Street-660'

East BWay-656'

York Street-660'

Jay Street-660'

Bergen Street-660'

Carroll Street-s/b=658' n/b=660'

Smith-9th Street-712'

4th Ave-710'

7th Ave-660'

15th Street-Prospect Park-662'

Fort Hamilton Pkwy-654'

Church Ave-658'

Many of the shorter platforms (under 660') are shorter due too added structures and railing added at the ends of platforms.