NYC Transit tests 11-car train as means of alleviating 'F' line overcrowding

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[INDman]

No, it wont have to wait longer because the front of the 11 car train will bridge a signal IJ at the same time as a 10 or 8 car train would. Other then saying that its hard to show how signals work with out drawing it out.

 

For the pic of the test train, check subchat.

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Art Vandelay]

The Curve radii shouldnt be an issue. 11 car trains have run and worked on the IND, and length wouldnt really have an effect on such anyway-- Each individual car is still roughly 60 feet long.

 

The Signals are certainly an issue. The Queensbridge connection (and everything built since 1960) was not designed for trains longer than 600 feet.

[Art Vandelay]

Original IND signals are designed to work with 11 car trains.

 

Track segments which have been resignalled or built since then are not, and should have the issues which MTR brought up (Trains taking up more segments, resulting in lower capacity)

 

From Queens Plaza to 36th St this is certainly true. May also be an issue around Van Wyck Boulevard junction, although I would say such is less likely as that was both originally designed as a junction, and has the E and F separated onto different tracks for most of the rush. South of Broadway Lafayette might be an issue as well. (Not sure how much the signals changed with the Williamsburg Bridge connection.)

[MTR Admiralty]

Original IND signals are designed to work with 11 car trains.

 

Track segments which have been resignalled or built since then are not, and should have the issues which MTR brought up (Trains taking up more segments, resulting in lower capacity)

 

From Queens Plaza to 36th St this is certainly true. May also be an issue around Van Wyck Boulevard junction, although I would say such is less likely as that was both originally designed as a junction, and has the E and F separated onto different tracks for most of the rush. South of Broadway Lafayette might be an issue as well. (Not sure how much the signals changed with the Williamsburg Bridge connection.)

 

Yeah, because the trains are longer, thus lowering the number of trains on the track. It affects the control length, doesn't it?

[metsfan]

If they can pull it off without making stuff worse i'm all for it.

 

- A

[Art Vandelay]

Thats the general idea, yeah.

If say the blocks are designed so that trains will take up two blocks, and you expand the train length, it may now take up three blocks. As you said earlier, that will increase the time it takes for a signal to reset which can reduce throughput.

[MTR Admiralty]

Thats the general idea, yeah.

If say the blocks are designed so that trains will take up two blocks, and you expand the train length, it may now take up three blocks. As you said earlier, that will increase the time it takes for a signal to reset which can reduce throughput.

 

The problem can be solved when CBTC is implemented.

[metsfan]

How about on IRT lines, such as the ?

 

Is it worth it to extend shorter express station platforms to allow these longer trains to run in the future when demand will be even higher than today?

 

How long is the new SF? Can it fit 660 foot train?

 

I think they should aim for 675 on bmt/ind/sas just to allow all car length types to fit.

 

I really think that eventually it will have to be done. Why not put some folks to work & prepare for the future now? B)

 

- A

[Fan Railer]

Keep in mind that New South Ferry is an IRT station. so it should only be approx 550ft for the typical 514ft IRT train consisting of ten 51.4ft cars.

 

MTA is broke, so no major platform extensions are going to take place for at least 50 years, after CBTC has been implemented system wide.

 

but theoretically, if you wanted to, the best way to extend platforms would be like this:

 

IRT:

550 ft to 620 ft to accomodate 12 car trains of 51.4ft.

 

IND ():

600-660ft to 760ft to accomodate 10 car 75 ft trains, keep all IND trains 75 ft cars.

 

BMT ():

500ft to 620ft to accomodate the current IND standard of 10 60ft cars

 

MISC (GS(S)): Extend to 5 car IRT operation (280ft) and put either R110A's or R62A's on.

 

MISC (FRA(S)): Extend to 4 car 75 ft operation (315ft)

[Maserati7200]

IND ():

600-660ft to 760ft to accomodate 10 car 75 ft trains, keep all IND trains 75 ft cars.

 

The are BMT lines.

BMT ():

500ft to 620ft to accomodate the current IND standard of 10 60ft cars

 

The (Z)'s platform's cannot be extended. In the 50's, the city was doing a system wide platform lengthening project. They wanted to extend all BMT platforms to 600 feet, and all IRT platforms to 514 feet. It was determined the BMT Eastern division () would be too difficult to extend, so it wasn't done.

 

Also, remember all of the BMT lines' platforms ( from DeKalb to Coney Island, from Pacific street to Coney, from Ditmas to Coney Island, , , , , , below Lex/59th, and ) were originally 480 feet. All except the were extended to 600 feet.

[metsfan]

But remember, 75 foot cars have clearance issues, might as well just get 60 footers and not have assignment restrictions. Plus, the 75 foot cars are heavier.

 

- A

[KeystoneRegional]

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[7LineFan]

Sometimes extending platforms will not work, maybe you'll run into someone's basement, maybe you'll run into some electrical/water/sewage system...

 

Um... there'd only be tunnel there, or whatever structure (supporting or otherwise) is on the end of the platform. There's a ROW for the subway, you know.

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[metsfan]

Um... there'd only be tunnel there, or whatever structure (supporting or otherwise) is on the end of the platform. There's a ROW for the subway, you know.

 

The only areas you'd need to do major work to extend are the stations that are muli-layered. You need to transfer the loads properly. Good example of another situation is the 63rd st tunnel & roosevelt island station. The island is so narrow that if you wanted to extend the platforms (though i don't believe this is or would be needed), you'd need to do some re-engineering on the tunnel/rock interface to make sure the east river doesn't come in to say hello.

 

- A

[7LineFan]

What ROW?

 

Right-of-way. That means that the space can only be used for the subway, nothing else.

 

The only areas you'd need to do major work to extend are the stations that are muli-layered. You need to transfer the loads properly. Good example of another situation is the 63rd st tunnel & roosevelt island station. The island is so narrow that if you wanted to extend the platforms (though i don't believe this is or would be needed), you'd need to do some re-engineering on the tunnel/rock interface to make sure the east river doesn't come in to say hello.

 

- A

 

Yeah, that's what I meant. AWWang had some crazy idea that you'd be extending the platform into someone's basement.

[metsfan]

Right-of-way. That means that the space can only be used for the subway, nothing else.

 

 

 

Yeah, that's what I meant. AWWang had some crazy idea that you'd be extending the platform into someone's basement.

 

Only basement related stuff is nearby access to buildings, or built below building with the subway entrance being there, good example is 1 times sq. IRT built the line below the press room, which is why it's so heavily bolstered.

 

- A

[Maserati7200]

I remember someone saying earlier that there are pics on subchat, I checked, and I couldn't find any. Could someone post a link?

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[7LineFan]

For the second one, it is not an idea, it is a concern. Idea and concern are no-where near each other, just to be clear...

 

It's not gonna happen either way.

[MTR Admiralty]

Only basement related stuff is nearby access to buildings, or built below building with the subway entrance being there, good example is 1 times sq. IRT built the line below the press room, which is why it's so heavily bolstered.

 

- A

Another is the Municipal Building. The Municipal Building sits on top of the BMT Chambers Street Station.

[metsfan]

Another is the Municipal Building. The Municipal Building sits on top of the BMT Chambers Street Station.

 

Yes, however the printing presses were gigantic heavy pieces of machinery in large open areas, the building you speak of is a beam and column steel structure, with easily identifiable bits easily fitting around where the platform and whatnot needs to be.

 

Have you ever noticed how substantial the columns are in times sq near the old times building? They had to be like that. i'll get a photo tomorrow.

 

- A

[MTR Admiralty]

Yes, however the printing presses were gigantic heavy pieces of machinery in large open areas, the building you speak of is a beam and column steel structure, with easily identifiable bits easily fitting around where the platform and whatnot needs to be.

 

Have you ever noticed how substantial the columns are in times sq near the old times building? They had to be like that. i'll get a photo tomorrow.

 

- A

 

True, the Municipal Building is just a regular office building.

Talking about buildings on top of subways, there's a building on top of the Westminster Tube Station in you-know-where. I have a picture of the structure, it's pretty neat. The renovation process, in anticipation for the Jub. line, costed billions of pounds. It was a rough job.