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MTA is planning on expanding OPTO


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Running long length trains OPTO is not safe. You really think a T/O is going to see 9 cars down and around a curve to see that baby stroller in the doorway, or who's wheel is caught in the gap between the train and the platform?

 

Not to mention if there needs to be an evacuation, that would be VERY unsafe. The T/O would have to make his way through the train car by car assisting passengers and getting people mobilized and ready to move out of the cars. And now he'd have to do all 10 cars. Meanwhile, someone also has to physically and observe passengers detraining, whether it's to a rescue train in front or beside, to the catwalk, or down to the roadbed. Two people working speeds up the process. Now the T/O does EVERYTHING (twice the work) and the crew of the rescue train would assist people detraining.

 

And to those of you who think that the T/O can just "make an announcement" and call it a day, he now would have to keep a whole train of passengers calm. Not to mention if a rescue train pulls up behind the stuck train prepared to wrong rail back to the last station, how does that old lady with the walker in car 3 make it all the way back? Here's a hint the crew doesn't just let her hobble on back walking through the storm doors all by herself...

 

Of course defenders of this idea will say "oh those don't happen very often" but as the saying goes hope for the best but prepare for the worst and IF it happens that's a lot of responsibility for any one person, no matter how experienced they are...

 

just my 2c

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Running long length trains OPTO is not safe. You really think a T/O is going to see 9 cars down and around a curve to see that baby stroller in the doorway, or who's wheel is caught in the gap between the train and the platform?

 

Not to mention if there needs to be an evacuation, that would be VERY unsafe. The T/O would have to make his way through the train car by car assisting passengers and getting people mobilized and ready to move out of the cars. And now he'd have to do all 10 cars. Meanwhile, someone also has to physically and observe passengers detraining, whether it's to a rescue train in front or beside, to the catwalk, or down to the roadbed. Two people working speeds up the process. Now the T/O does EVERYTHING (twice the work) and the crew of the rescue train would assist people detraining.

 

And to those of you who think that the T/O can just "make an announcement" and call it a day, he now would have to keep a whole train of passengers calm. Not to mention if a rescue train pulls up behind the stuck train prepared to wrong rail back to the last station, how does that old lady with the walker in car 3 make it all the way back? Here's a hint the crew doesn't just let her hobble on back walking through the storm doors all by herself...

 

Of course defenders of this idea will say "oh those don't happen very often" but as the saying goes hope for the best but prepare for the worst and IF it happens that's a lot of responsibility for any one person, no matter how experienced they are...

 

just my 2c

 

My thougts exactly!

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Running long length trains OPTO is not safe. You really think a T/O is going to see 9 cars down and around a curve to see that baby stroller in the doorway, or who's wheel is caught in the gap between the train and the platform?

 

Not to mention if there needs to be an evacuation, that would be VERY unsafe. The T/O would have to make his way through the train car by car assisting passengers and getting people mobilized and ready to move out of the cars. And now he'd have to do all 10 cars. Meanwhile, someone also has to physically and observe passengers detraining, whether it's to a rescue train in front or beside, to the catwalk, or down to the roadbed. Two people working speeds up the process. Now the T/O does EVERYTHING (twice the work) and the crew of the rescue train would assist people detraining.

 

And to those of you who think that the T/O can just "make an announcement" and call it a day, he now would have to keep a whole train of passengers calm. Not to mention if a rescue train pulls up behind the stuck train prepared to wrong rail back to the last station, how does that old lady with the walker in car 3 make it all the way back? Here's a hint the crew doesn't just let her hobble on back walking through the storm doors all by herself...

 

Of course defenders of this idea will say "oh those don't happen very often" but as the saying goes hope for the best but prepare for the worst and IF it happens that's a lot of responsibility for any one person, no matter how experienced they are...

 

just my 2c

 

 

Agreed

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Running long length trains OPTO is not safe. You really think a T/O is going to see 9 cars down and around a curve to see that baby stroller in the doorway, or who's wheel is caught in the gap between the train and the platform?

 

Not to mention if there needs to be an evacuation, that would be VERY unsafe. The T/O would have to make his way through the train car by car assisting passengers and getting people mobilized and ready to move out of the cars. And now he'd have to do all 10 cars. Meanwhile, someone also has to physically and observe passengers detraining, whether it's to a rescue train in front or beside, to the catwalk, or down to the roadbed. Two people working speeds up the process. Now the T/O does EVERYTHING (twice the work) and the crew of the rescue train would assist people detraining.

 

And to those of you who think that the T/O can just "make an announcement" and call it a day, he now would have to keep a whole train of passengers calm. Not to mention if a rescue train pulls up behind the stuck train prepared to wrong rail back to the last station, how does that old lady with the walker in car 3 make it all the way back? Here's a hint the crew doesn't just let her hobble on back walking through the storm doors all by herself...

 

Of course defenders of this idea will say "oh those don't happen very often" but as the saying goes hope for the best but prepare for the worst and IF it happens that's a lot of responsibility for any one person, no matter how experienced they are...

 

just my 2c

 

11 on the (7). OPTO is a horrible idea.

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The TWU will freak out...I think it was part of the contract a few years back that (MTA) does not have rights to take away conductors.

 

I believe that if they will use OPTO, they'll use it on the lines with the NTTs. That way, it'll give an affirmative lock on the screen preventing the driver driving off with people stuck in between the doors.

 

However, this does create a safety hazard...Let's hope (MTA) fails this time.

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Even passenger-less freight trains have a ****ing conductor. These people are out of their ****ing minds. Only light rail & tram/trolly can be T/O only, because they usually can see, and if not have cameras & smaller vehicles also.

 

Insane. I dunno about you guys but i'm starting to really not like the (MTA).

 

- A

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Even passenger-less freight trains have a ****ing conductor. These people are out of their ****ing minds.

 

 

That's because the drivers of the freight trains might have a heart attack or stroke on the train. And since they probably rigged the security systems to make it look like they're still alive and active while they're not, that can cause massive destruction. Especially if they're pulling tankers and the train derails. That's why it's important to have a conductor there.

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Even passenger-less freight trains have a ****ing conductor. These people are out of their ****ing minds. Only light rail & tram/trolly can be T/O only, because they usually can see, and if not have cameras & smaller vehicles also.

 

Insane. I dunno about you guys but i'm starting to really not like the (MTA).

 

- A

 

That's because the drivers of the freight trains might have a heart attack or stroke on the train. And since they probably rigged the security systems to make it look like they're still alive and active while they're not, that can cause massive destruction. Especially if they're pulling tankers and the train derails. That's why it's important to have a conductor there.
The job of the conductor on freight trains is not even the same as conductors on the Subway. It's completely different. They throw any manual switches that need to be thrown, maintain constant contact with control to make sure everything is running smoothly on the train and down the line ahead of them. They couple cars and also make sure that the train maintains it's schedule.
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if they run it im not going on the line anymore ,does that help.?;)

 

No, because that would be just one less person. Now if every New Yorker said they would not ride OPTO lines because they fear for their safety then that would help.

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I've always wondered why other systems in the world all use OPTO, while NYC still uses conductors in their subway.

Well think about it, newer systems don't because they have better signalling systems from the start. They also have central control and they had no conductors from the start. On the other hand, we are dealing with much more older technology and we are used to conductors from the start. We have this tradition of conductors and if anything is going to kill it, it will spark controversy.

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Well think about it, newer systems don't because they have better signalling systems from the start. They also have central control and they had no conductors from the start. On the other hand, we are dealing with much more older technology and we are used to conductors from the start. We have this tradition of conductors and if anything is going to kill it, it will spark controversy.
The London Tubes are much older and they have had much more fatal derails in the past. Still, there is no need to have conductors in spite of the fact that the annoucements don't exist most of the time. Well I guess I'm just not dependent on conductors for the many years that I've travelled on the subway. I remember my mom telling me that she has gotten so used to the subway conductors since she came here in the 80s that when she went back to HK, she got lost and spent hours trying to find a conductor on the MTR subway train.
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C/Rs dont just "make announcements" and Open doors. they are also the "captain" of the train. and being placed halfway thru the train gives them an excellent veiw of the platform. OPTO works well in other cites for 2 primary reasons:

1) other cities dont have train legnths as long as ours.

2) other cities dont have the passenger volume that we do.

 

Plain and simple

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C/Rs dont just "make announcements" and Open doors. they are also the "captain" of the train. and being placed halfway thru the train gives them an excellent veiw of the platform. OPTO works well in other cites for 2 primary reasons:

1) other cities dont have train legnths as long as ours.

2) other cities dont have the passenger volume that we do.

 

Plain and simple

 

You're right on the money.

The C/R is able to look both directions 240-300 feet to see if anybody is still boarding. A T/O under OPTO must observe 480-600 feet to see if anybody is still boarding. Tough. Besides look at those people who hold doors or wrestle with them when the doors shut before them. A C/R could open the doors just for them. A T/O under OPTO won't be able to, because he can't really see past a certain distance.

C/Rs also keep the T/O in check. Ever wondered what why you hear "We got line-up?" on the train?

 

I'm not sure about this one, so here's a question: If OPTO is implemented, would T/Os have to be retrained in a way?

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Not on (7), (J).

Cutting C/O on them is not good idea because it feel safer with two employees, T/O and C/O.

What happened if there is emergency evaculation.

Without C/O, emergency evaculation might take long time because engineer has to walk through each car to tell them.

 

Last time, when I was on front car of 8th Av-bound (L) during rush hour, there was rear car door problem, so T/O has to run all the way to rear car after train was at 1st Ave Station.

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Just because other systems do not have a conductor does not mean it will work for New York. New York is not Boston, Philly, LA, London, China, Japan or India. New York is a unique system with unique constraints that have to be addressed. They will save money when they learn to work with what they already have and train their people to do the best job possible rather than trying to integrate new technologies with old technologies to "keep current" which while it may look nice to the average rider creates all kinds of operational challenges.

 

Getting rid of the conductor is one of those things. How should the doors close...the T/O does it from the front and is supposed to see everything on crowded, curved platforms? What if it should someday go automatic - how would that work, on a timer? What if someone gets stuck...lawsuit? How about like an elevator. A timer goes down to zero and the doors close when a laser from one door leaf to another isn't blocked by an object. Well then the train would be there all day while passenger after passenger files in. Who observes the platform to make sure no one fell in the gap? (and who has the line of sight to do this, since the T/O is all the way in the front). Who observes the platform to make sure no one's getting dragged? Certainly not the T/O who can't see the platform once his train has moved about 10-20 feet from the marker and entered the tunnel again...(not that he'd want to stick his head out the window when he's approaching the tunnel wall and supposed to be looking AHEAD of him anyway...)

 

And as far as MTA is concerned, who bangs in the T/O if he dumps the deadman? The new tech trains have an event recorder, yes, but what about the old techs. Don't they want the conductor around in case a Robert Ray type shows up and operates unsafely? T/O isn't going to take himself out of service for being unfit for duty. Again it's a rare situation but always be prepared right? Conductors perform a number of safety sensitive jobs, unique to New York and not ANY OTHER SYSTEM, that are vital and cannot and should not be removed. There's a reason those Boston trolleys were physically able to crash when the texting operator ran that red...in NY that wouldn't happen, even using the "ancient signalling". Conductor is part of the preventative safety measures of the system FROM DAY ONE and should not be removed without a suitable alternative which is not possible at this time, or given the straints of NY possibly ever.

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I had a feeling they were going to start this again since our contract is still in negotations. I disagree with OPTO I feel you always need two people on the train. That was one of the reason I left the QNS section was to one day the only thing open with my Hours was OPTO (G) job. Just couldn't get myself to do it while I do have an itch to work the doors its just a bad feeling when something happens your the only employee on the train with a train of customers. I have been in situations were something happened and the Conductor came up to check on me while dealing with diorderly customers.

As much as I dislike it the writing has been on the wall for Conductors for years. Thats one of the reason I left the title I enjoyed being a C/R it was a way of meeting people and working on the train without the full resposablity of being the Train Operator. However T/O was job security and I did want to run a train couldn't see myself doing anything else for a Promotion. Thank GOD I went the T/O route because the Tower Operator and Dispatcher jobs are also dying but ofcause no one is talking about that.

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