Express bus taken for a ride: Honor system fails miserably, no one checks on Bx12

[MottAvenueMan]

Big shocker.(NYCT)

[Princelex]

I'm so late to this party. Sadly, I'm not shocked by this news. I've never seen cops go on the Bx12 SBS when I was on it. This is just clear proof that we need way more cops to monitor most of the stops on that line to make sure people are paying their fare. I hope the MTA and NYPD are talking with each other about this situation and can find a cost-effective way to check the riders and do it in a manner that isn't half-assed yet not brutal.

[FamousNYLover]

It's the fact that people think that POP = free ride. It's not. If you're busted you're going to pay a hundred more times the actual fare. However we do have a history of farebeating on normal non-SBS buses. Freeloading is very popular on some lines. If SBS needs to be implemented it needs these two:

-high visibility shelters with strict fare control: fare gates (HEETs). Just like subway stations. Something like the Curitaba model could be used. That prevents this issue.

-lane enforcement: make sure the bus lane is free from other vehicles. Have like barriers protecting the lane from other traffic.

 

When I took (NJT) RiverLine for first time with my validaded ticket, I seen some passengers cursing when they hear "Please have your valided ticket for inspsection."

Same reason at Hudson-Bergen Lightrail.

[Princelex]

As I've read more of the thread, it makes me even more proud of that fact that the Bx12 got the SBS first before any other line. The MTA could have easily picked the M15 to start it off but they chose the Bx12 instead. That could have been because of all the construction happening along 2nd Ave with the MTA building the 2nd Avenue Line. Who knows, but the fact that they chose the Bx12 to start this SBS project on is a great thing in my opinion. It's not often that they start something so new on a route in the Bronx so for the Bx12 to get it first was nothing short of amazing. LOL

 

Yes, fare beating is happening but no one can say that the same thing wouldn't happen in Manhattan or Brooklyn or anywhere else. For every rotten apple there are a bunch of good ones and the proof that it's working is in the ridership. There's a thread about the Top 10 local Bus routes in 2008 and the Bx12 is in the Top 5. I don't know where it was in 2007 when they last had the Bx12 LTD for the whole year but when I ride it now, I see more people on that route than I ever have and it's a great thing and the majority of them pay too. I was on the SBS on Friday at 8:46pm from 207th and Broadway and we got to Pelham Bay Park in over a half hour. That would NOT have happened if the Bx12 LTD was still around. SBS has even made the Bx12 Local even faster and while people think that's a bad thing, I think it's great. Good service is supposed to help other services and it's happening with the Local Bx12. SBS is a great service that I look forward to seeing implemented all across the city but as one who occasionally takes the Bx12 to connect with other lines to Co-Op City, I'm still extremely happy that it started in the Bronx.

[Princelex]

Princelex, I'll have to disagree with you on that. The M15 would have benefitted it more because its more "isolated" than the Bx12. Unlike the Bx12, the M15 has very few subway connections. Suppose you start at 125th and 2nd Avenue, the first subway connection you can make is at 14th and 2nd. With the Bx12, there is a subway station at either end (207 and PBP). The TA rarely debuts something in Manhattan.

 

As ridership figures show, the M15 needs more help than the Bx12.

 

Ridership might need it on the M15 but why knock the Bx12 for having it? It's a packed line too. There were times in the past I couldn't get on a Bx12 and had to wait for another one or two before I could get on. Would you do the same thing if it was on the B44 or some other route first? Look, we can't change the past now but we can think about the future. Besides, they are both heavily used lines that need help, they just went with the Bronx first. I'm not saying that the Bx12 was the best line to start it on but it's the line that the MTA chose and it works for me since I am affected to a certain degree by it.

 

Think of it this way 33rd Street, with them starting the SBS program in the Bronx, they can see where the flaws are so that when it does hit Manhattan, they will know what to look out for to make the experience for better on the M15 and other lines that are supposed to get SBS. Besides, I heard that the M15 is supposed to get those new Nova Artics when SBS starts, so maybe in the long run it was good that you didn't get SBS first. One thing's for sure, when the M15 gets SBS service going, it's going to be big & I look forward to the M15 getting SBS. It may not be there now but it will be very soon.

[Princelex]

I fully understand your post. I guess the TA wanted to make the Bx12 as a lab rat to test how well SBS would perform in New York City. I'll admit, I do enjoy riding the Bx12+. The whole POP system is long over due. I really hope Gun Hill does got a batch of those Nova LSFA's because you and I can agree that the D60HF's aren't meant for that kind of service. The first time I rode on the Bx12, I was amazed that many people take it on a daily basis. I'm glad to hear thet you can't wait till SBS debuts on the M15.

 

Dude, the Bx12's been packed since I was a kid and I'm 30. It would be great if the Bx12 got the new Nova's but if it doesn't, oh well. I like the NF Artics even though it can be a rough ride on there.

 

I definately want the M15 to get SBS and I apologize if it sounded like I didn't cause I didn't mean for it to come out that way. I don't ride it much but I love the M15 and I know that it needs SBS service. After experiencing the Bx12 SBS, I want all the 5 boroughs to get SBS cause it can make a HUGE difference in one's commute, be it that the traffic isn't that bad. Even with the flaws with fare evasion, I still love it and will praise the hell out of Bx12 SBS service and I believe it will make service on the M15, B44 and other lines slated for SBS even better than before. I believe it will be a success citywide, I really do.

[S78 via Hylan]

Dude, the Bx12's been packed since I was a kid and I'm 30. It would be great if the Bx12 got the new Nova's but if it doesn't, oh well. I like the NF Artics even though it can be a rough ride on there.

 

I definately want the M15 to get SBS and I apologize if it sounded like I didn't cause I didn't mean for it to come out that way. I don't ride it much but I love the M15 and I know that it needs SBS service. After experiencing the Bx12 SBS, I want all the 5 boroughs to get SBS cause it can make a HUGE difference in one's commute, be it that the traffic isn't that bad. Even with the flaws with fare evasion, I still love it and will praise the hell out of Bx12 SBS service and I believe it will make service on the M15, B44 and other lines slated for SBS even better than before. I believe it will be a success citywide, I really do.

 

Yes. The M15 does needs SBS although I have been on the Bx12 SBS and it is packed.

[rmcconnell]

I also wonder if the [bx12] local should be downgraded to rigids (i.e., Orions).

 

I actually witnessed an Orion VII NG on the westbound Bx12 local (short-turn at Sedgwick Av) yesterday.

[aemoreira81]

I actually witnessed an Orion VII NG on the westbound Bx12 local (short-turn at Sedgwick Av) yesterday.

 

All of them should be like that---and ridership on the Bx12 Local has plummeted. Personally, the western end should be truncated to Grand Concourse.

[KNIGHTRIDER3:16]

I'm so late to this party. Sadly, I'm not shocked by this news. I've never seen cops go on the Bx12 SBS when I was on it. This is just clear proof that we need way more cops to monitor most of the stops on that line to make sure people are paying their fare. I hope the MTA and NYPD are talking with each other about this situation and can find a cost-effective way to check the riders and do it in a manner that isn't half-assed yet not brutal.

 

Yeh man you hit it right on the nail (5)O needs to be present <R>

[Q53 Limited]

plain and simple. wont spend money to hire additional checkers for $2.00 fare when they are busy checking us. so over all want to take the $23.56 we make intsead of the $2 bucks from the passenger. just one of the many reasons why we get nailed to the wall but customers will be treated as innocent

[KNIGHTRIDER3:16]

plain and simple. wont spend money to hire additional checkers for $2.00 fare when they are busy checking us. so over all want to take the $23.56 we make intsead of the $2 bucks from the passenger. just one of the many reasons why we get nailed to the wall but customers will be treated as innocent

 

OMG that was to the point man very good reply :tup::tup::cool:<R>QSC

[Q53 Limited]

OMG that was to the point man very good reply :tup::tup::cool:<R>QSC

 

well you know....I dont want to brag!....rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[MTR Admiralty]

Yeh man you hit it right on the nail (5)O needs to be present <R>

5-0 can't be everywhere. Farebeaters are already everywhere. If BRT should ever be implemented, it should be implemented where there is a form of fare control. Like build some Curitiba-style bus stops and have HEETS inside them.