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What would NYC be like with the IND Second System?


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The IND Second System was an ambitious plan to add many subway lines in the outer boroughs. Important connections to Manhattan would be constructed and several lines would use railway right-of-ways. If this was all built, how would the city look like now?

 

Here are my thoughts:

-Williamsburg, Flushing and Jamaica would be less concentrated with the buses

-The Lexington Avenue line would not be crowded as a result of a Second Avenue subway

-Many areas in the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn would have been served

-Lower Manhattan would have a very concentrated and perhaps, comprehensive, network of subways within it.

-No need for SBS service??

-A need for more yards

-With the Van Wyck subway, we might have a line that actually goes to JFK

-With an Astoria line extension, we might have a line that actually reaches LGA

Just some thoughts. What are yours?

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Wasn't the (E) supposed to go under the Van Wyck Expressway to the airport? Why'd it go to Archer Ave. instead?

It went to Archer Ave so that it could recapture an LIRR line and head to Rosedale. Using ROWs is cheaper than digging afresh. That was actually from later plans, not part of the Second System.

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http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/indsecsys.html

 

The second avenue subway would be the biggest impact, the(4)(5)(6) line would be less crowded through manhattan and the (4) would not have the stigma of being the slowest. Also all Lexington Avenue station platforms on other subway lines would be less crowded.

Equally dramatic effects could be felt in areas like Williamsburg, Flushing and Jamaica.

 

Oh, and the Q53 would not be needed, as would the Bx55.

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I would like to speculate that maybe G/Os wouldn't have as big of an impact on people that live along say Queens Blvd or Flushing. I mean I live in an area with about 11 subway lines and there's always an option when G/Os happen here. But that's just what I think.

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You wouldn't need that many express buses as well as bus routes. The Lexington line would be less crowded today. The subway map would have to be lot bigger as well.

Not to mention, those fruitless boxes have to be taken care of.

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Fruitless boxes? And the (E) going to the airport would be MUCH more efficient than where it currently ends today. There would be no real need for an AirTrain, though Merrick Blvd. would not have any option for subway service.

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the train station in front of my school actually has part of the second system built. My school is in front of the Utica Av train station on the (A)(C)

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Fruitless boxes? And the (E) going to the airport would be MUCH more efficient than where it currently ends today. There would be no real need for an AirTrain, though Merrick Blvd. would not have any option for subway service.

Those small boxes that denote what buses you can connect to on the map.

The biggest plus is that you can get to the airport on a one seat ride. Maybe not to all terminals, but at least, you're close to there. Not like Howard Beach.

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Equally dramatic effects could be felt in areas like Williamsburg, Flushing and Jamaica.
And definitely Bushwick and Ridgewood. According to the BVE layout, we woul dhave the AA and B stright down Myrtle, and just as much access to all of Manhattan as anywhere else. (No telling what this would have become by now).
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And definitely Bushwick and Ridgewood. According to the BVE layout, we woul dhave the AA and B stright down Myrtle, and just as much access to all of Manhattan as anywhere else. (No telling what this would have become by now).

Very true. In a later plan, a branch running along Fort Hamilton Parkway connecting to the IND South Brooklyn Line would have headed to Staten Island.

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