bveguy Posted August 25, 2009 Share #51 Posted August 25, 2009 I didn't heard wrong about R46s on the . I saw it myself I think he means your statement about the SMEEs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted August 25, 2009 Share #52 Posted August 25, 2009 I think he means your statement about the SMEEs. Yes. See, was that so confusing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted August 26, 2009 Share #53 Posted August 26, 2009 All cars R10-R68A are SMEE's. SMEE generally refers to the R10-R42s. The R44-R68A are all SMEE's - they are all interoperable mechanically, but not operationally, I think. Yes R10s through R68A are all SMEEs, they can't operate together at all. R44/45 or a slightly modifyed SMEE. Subwayguy can explain this better then I can. I didn't heard wrong about R46s on the . I saw it myself He ment that you heard wrong bout the R44/46 not being SMEEs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted August 26, 2009 Share #54 Posted August 26, 2009 I'm laughing because you are so wrong. So why don't you elaborate on how he is "wrong" instead of simply posting that he is "wrong". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted August 26, 2009 Share #55 Posted August 26, 2009 So why don't you elaborate on how he is "wrong" instead of simply posting that he is "wrong". Should I grab some popcorn and watch his dispensing of vast technical knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 26, 2009 Share #56 Posted August 26, 2009 Oy...here we go again. the train brakes summary. please note that all of this refers to trains RUNNING IN SERVICE so i dont want to hear about frankentrain yard combo's where coupler adapters were used and a diesel was pulling. this refers strictly to IN SERVICE combo's. that said: R32-R42 "Old SMEE" -H2C couplers with 3 rows of pins in the electrical portions Explanation: H2C is the coupler type used by every car in the system except R44/R46, new techs, and (some of the) work equipment. Electric portions are the part of the coupler where the trains hook up electrically. The "pins" are the individual "ports" that line up on the coupler, sort of like when you plug a DVD player into a TV you probably have 3 things you need to plug in...well think of each as a "pin". Subway coupler obviously a lot bigger than your TV connections so 3 rows of pins. Remember "SMEE" = straight air motorcar electropneumatic and emergency so if the electrical connections don't make the electric brake won't work...which defeats the purpose of SMEE... R44/R46 "Retrofitted SMEE" -Ohio Brass couplers. Originally delivered with a P-wire braking system designed for fully electrical control but this did not work well. The cars were refitted with "like SMEE" packages. They got different packages (R44 got one, R46 got another) Explanation: Because of the coupler difference, can't hook up to other equipment electrically. But they're still SMEE. The original P-wire set up on these cars had all kinds of problems with it, many times leading to trains with stuck brakes because the system was sending the wrong signals to the brake system (more complicated than that but we'll just leave it there). Because of the problem, the cars were refitted with SMEE packages. Now SMEE requires two "trainline" pipes to work - a straight air pipe, and a brake pipe. When you "charge" a train's brake system what you are "charging" is the brake pipe. The brake pipe is there for the emergency system. Normal brake pipe pressure is 110 lbs PSI. Any rapid drop in brake pipe pressure, say to 20 lbs PSI, will automatically apply the emergency brake. Why? Brake pipe rupture, hit a red signal (trip cock causes the train to dump), pulled cord (emergency brake does same). Here's the catch. R44 normal brake pipe pressure is approx 130 lbs. PSI. So you can't mix and match it with an R46 because with two brake pipe pressures its not "designed" for that. Brake pipe pressure, since it runs the length of the train, MUST be the more or less the same the length of the train. Survey says: incompatible. The coupler difference prevents either of these cars from being compatible with anything else. R62/68 "New SMEE" -H2C couplers with 4 rows of pins in the electrical portions Explanation: There is a 4th row of pins in the electric portions on the coupler of these cars which makes hooking up to and running with "Old SMEE" cars not workable. As I mentioned in the previous thread, there is a delay in R68A braking which is not present in R68 braking which would make it uncomfortable and probably kind of stupid from a "wear and tear" standpoint to mix R68/A in a consist, so you won't see it. As for R62/A, I am not exactly sure about that but I assume that it's possible just doesn't make much sense because the R62 packages are more similar to the R32-R42 packages whereas the R62A package is more similar to the R68 package. I've never seen a mixed R62/A set running under its own power with full connections made. R142/3/160 "New Tech" -Electric brake system, couplers don't matter cuz the system isn't compatible with anything SMEE anyway. Explanation: These brakes are all computer controlled. Can't give the technical details of it, but when the handle is moved to the service brake range basically the train is told to stop at a certain rate, so if full service is 2.5 mphps, the train does what is needed to stop at that rate when the handle is moved to full service. That means the computer co-ordinates the dynamic brake and the friction brake (brake cylinders/shoes) as needed to get that rate. This system is entirely incompatible with anything else. Also, to whoever said R142/A can not run mixed that is NOT true at all, it can and has been done before...the problem with doing that is one of the two car types accelerates quicker than the other, so if that said is the rear 5 it will slam into the front 5 and create a very bumpy ride a la "bucking bronco's" so it's not done since it's impossible on any IRT line to have a 10 car train where one set is always the front 5. R143/R160 can be run together but only when the R143 is in CBTC bypass (although it really doesn't make sense to do that), and all R160's are compatible with each other, although they don't really like the results of mixing, particularly propulsion mixing since there was an issue that would make the trains run fast when that happened. Hopefuly that will settle this debate. R44 and R46 ARE SMEE cars. They weren't always but they are now and will be until the day they are retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDman Posted August 26, 2009 Share #57 Posted August 26, 2009 That deserves a big THANK YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted August 26, 2009 Share #58 Posted August 26, 2009 That deserves a big THANK YOU. It deserves a pint o' beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 26, 2009 Share #59 Posted August 26, 2009 It deserves a pint o' beer. I can't accept that! Now how am I supposed to pass my medical when they ask me if I drink and I have to say "once on August 25th" BUUUUURP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 5278 Posted August 26, 2009 Share #60 Posted August 26, 2009 Subway Guy, you are the best in technical descriptions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted August 26, 2009 Share #61 Posted August 26, 2009 He's definitely right on the ball with the R160 issue. Siemems and Alstom mix-ups cause a rather non-smooth ride. Again, thanks SubwayGuy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 27, 2009 Share #62 Posted August 27, 2009 No problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Paniagua Posted August 29, 2009 Share #63 Posted August 29, 2009 they use to run 32s on the rock park shuttle. they dont now and wont since its an OPTO line now. The only times youll even see a conductor is on the weekends during the summer when they run full lenght trains for all the beach goers. even then, no 32s. any 32s in rock park are either extras for far rock service or one of the 5 reserved for peak rock pk service. Oh they did, I dodn't know that, since ebery time I've been on the rock Park Shuttle, I've gotten nothing but R44s, but some of their railfan windows are sometimes uncovered thus enabling me to see out froont. And I didn't even know that the R44 and R46 cars cannot trainline with each other due to the braking systems unlike the MBTA Red Line's 015/01600-Series and the 01700s which CAN run together because they have the same dynamic braking system and WH propulsion unlike the R44 - R46 cars, and the same with R68/R68As which also cannot trainline together, since of the takeoff time, which the MBTA 015/01600s and 01700s also have in common, their braking and acceleration are equal, so that's why they can run together, and heck, these Red Line cars could run on the B division (except the J, M, L & Z lines), they are 69 feet long, 122 inches wide, and 600vdc traction plus they are wayside signal compatible, but the 01500, 01600 and 01700-series cars of Boston's red Line cannot run together with any NYCTA equipment, only on their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbluefoxie Posted August 29, 2009 Share #64 Posted August 29, 2009 while that may be true, why would we want bostons stuff we got better trains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted August 29, 2009 Share #65 Posted August 29, 2009 while that may be true, why would we want bostons stuff we got better trains We got better everything than Boston. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubwayGuy Posted August 30, 2009 Share #66 Posted August 30, 2009 We got better everything than Boston. B) Especially baseball teams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted August 31, 2009 Share #67 Posted August 31, 2009 Especially baseball teams! Oooooooooooooooooooo BURN!!!!!!!! Lol. But anyway, thanks for clearing everything up for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel The Cool Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share #68 Posted September 1, 2009 thanks for the info subway guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Broadway Local Posted September 3, 2009 Share #69 Posted September 3, 2009 LOL. Why are R32 Brightliners infamous? When they were new, R32 Brightliners were something to see. Blue doors, shiny, corrugated stainless steel sides and even the local/express, route and terminal indicators against the silver background. TT Chambers Street West End Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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