Messino Posted June 13, 2009 Share #201 Posted June 13, 2009 It's not fair that I actually read the question and got the answer right the first time that I have to share the same score with you guys who protest the questions you obviously got wrong. The questions are not difficult if you ACTUALLY read the question before answering. All the Dcas tests are very simple. 4 choices. 2 are definitely not the answer. 1 can be the answer if you miss a key word in the question. I really don't think someone that protested a question and ended up getting the same score as I did deserves to have the same seniority as I do if I got all of my questions right on the first try. If you don't pay attention you deserve to have the wrong answer. There is a lot of whining in this thread that the questions weren't fair. They were very clear. You guys are acting like the criminals that blame their victims they rob for being rich. You're acting like you are the victims. Not alot but a few of the questions were written improperly/convoluted to a point where it wasnt a proper question. Also I thought it wasnt right that they expected people to know where certain landmarks were or which holidays took place on which months as other people have mentioned , IE: where is hunter college, where is the meuseam of natural history, the questions with Labor day and veterens day.. It shouldnt be on the test because it shouldnt be held against people who dont know where certain places are or when certain holidays fall as it has nothing to do with comprehension of the paragraphs. So there will be a few legitimate protests. Besides.. Life isn't fair, it never was.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Posted June 13, 2009 Share #202 Posted June 13, 2009 Also I thought it wasnt right that they expected people to know where certain landmarks were or which holidays took place on which months as other people have mentioned , IE: where is hunter college, where is the meuseam of natural history, the questions with Labor day and veterens day.. It shouldnt be on the test because it shouldnt be held against people who dont know where certain places are or when certain holidays fall as it has nothing to do with comprehension of the paragraphs. So there will be a few legitimate protests. Those are legitimate questions they expect there employees to know the NYC area and it's points of interest but they don't teach you this stuff. You are just expected to know it as new yorkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYC500 Posted June 13, 2009 Share #203 Posted June 13, 2009 It's not fair that I actually read the question and got the answer right the first time that I have to share the same score with you guys who protest the questions you obviously got wrong. The questions are not difficult if you ACTUALLY read the question before answering. All the Dcas tests are very simple. 4 choices. 2 are definitely not the answer. 1 can be the answer if you miss a key word in the question. I really don't think someone that protested a question and ended up getting the same score as I did deserves to have the same seniority as I do if I got all of my questions right on the first try. If you don't pay attention you deserve to have the wrong answer. There is a lot of whining in this thread that the questions weren't fair. They were very clear. That is true for practically all of the questions, but there were at least two, in my opinion, that were not at all clear given the info in the passage. And since one or two additional questions wrong may mean the difference between being accepted and rejected, or having to wait a lot longer, it matters a lot. Unfortunately, I can't remember much about the questions at this time, but will when I see them again at the protest. I think one of the problem questions for the AM session was #52. In any case, I doubt if they'd change anything that wasn't based on a legitimate argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messino Posted June 13, 2009 Share #204 Posted June 13, 2009 Those are legitimate questions they expect there employees to know the NYC area and it's points of interest but they don't teach you this stuff. You are just expected to know it as new yorkers. Test takers are not employees, knowing stuff like NYC major points of interest should be part of training. Not everyone taking the test is from New York. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messino Posted June 13, 2009 Share #205 Posted June 13, 2009 That is true for practically all of the questions, but there were at least two, in my opinion, that were not at all clear given the info in the passage. And since one or two additional questions wrong may mean the difference between being accepted and rejected, or having to wait a lot longer, it matters a lot. Unfortunately, I can't remember much about the questions at this time, but will when I see them again at the protest. I think one of the problem questions for the AM session was #52. In any case, I doubt if they'd change anything that wasn't based on a legitimate argument. I think the AM and PM session tests were the same, they just changed the order in which they asked the questions. If you look at the answer key from the T/O test back in Oct 2003 they have the same protested answers on the AM and PM key added in,just at different question numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYC500 Posted June 13, 2009 Share #206 Posted June 13, 2009 Those are legitimate questions. They expect their employees to know the NYC area and its points of interests, but they don't teach you this stuff. You are just expected to know it as new yorkers. Given that this test was 99% reading comprehension, what on earth did those study guides that some folks bought cover? Were they just filled with sample reading comp questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYC500 Posted June 13, 2009 Share #207 Posted June 13, 2009 I think the AM and PM session tests were the same, they just changed the order in which they asked the questions. If you look at the answer key from the T/O test back in Oct 2003 they have the same protested answers on the AM and PM key added in, just at different question numbers. Nice detective work! You might be right. The 4 modified answers from the AM session were precisely the same as the PM session, only they were assigned to different question #s. Hard to believe this is a mere coincidence. They were... AM Session: #43) A and/or B #59) A and/or B #61) B and/or C #65) A and/or D PM Session: #48) A and/or B #64) A and/or B #66) B and/or C #70) A and/or D However, it would have been beyond ridiculous to have the same exact questions on both, since the AM test takers could have passed some of the questions to friends taking the PM test. This could have easily been done via cellphone while the PMers were still on line outside waiting to go in. TRAIN OPERATOR (NYCTA), EXAM NO. 2085 PROMOTION TO TRAIN OPERATOR (NYCTA), EXAM NO. 2550 OCTOBER 25, 2003 (Answer Keys for both AM and PM sessions): http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcas/downloads/pdf/keys/ktrainoperator2085.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Local Posted June 13, 2009 Share #208 Posted June 13, 2009 Not alot but a few of the questions were written improperly/convoluted to a point where it wasnt a proper question. Also I thought it wasnt right that they expected people to know where certain landmarks were or which holidays took place on which months as other people have mentioned , IE: where is hunter college, where is the meuseam of natural history, the questions with Labor day and veterens day.. It shouldnt be on the test because it shouldnt be held against people who dont know where certain places are or when certain holidays fall as it has nothing to do with comprehension of the paragraphs. So there will be a few legitimate protests. Besides.. Life isn't fair, it never was.. That is a completely ridiculous statement, the test judges how well you can comprehend rules and procedures. Not all the questions could be worded like a grammar school test. The holidays and landmarks are common sense and those questions are basically a give away. Those are legitimate questions they expect there employees to know the NYC area and it's points of interest but they don't teach you this stuff. You are just expected to know it as new yorkers. Agree 100% Test takers are not employees, knowing stuff like NYC major points of interest should be part of training. Not everyone taking the test is from New York. Why should that be part of training?? I think I learned that stuff back in 3rd grade. Test takers are potential employees, they want to see if you're even worth being looked at to possibly be hired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAveExp5 Posted June 13, 2009 Share #209 Posted June 13, 2009 well the position of train operator does NOT require New York City residency. so any mention of "New Yorkers" only applies to most of us, not all. i almost shit in my pants when i didnt see Ellis Island as one of the choices. but good thing it wasnt cuz i would have picked it! and if my father didnt attend Hunter College, and i didnt have my high school graduation there, i might have gotten that wrong too...as a life long New Yorker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted June 13, 2009 Share #210 Posted June 13, 2009 Test takers are not employees, knowing stuff like NYC major points of interest should be part of training. Not everyone taking the test is from New York. If you want a job in NYC that encompasses travel and you interact with inhabitants or visitors to the city you had better know something about the landmarks or tourist attractions in NYC. No excuses please. That goes whether you are applying for C/R, B/O, T/O or cab driver. If you come from NJ, Connecticut, or Nebraska you should have some knowledge of the place you want to work in. Don't know about the Statue of Liberty ? C'mon ny nephew was taught about it in school and he's in the 6th grade in North Carolina. If I wanted a job on the DC Metro you better believe I'd find out where the Capitol or Smithsonian were located. I just figured all rail-fans knew the NYC landmarks. As far as the Hunter College question went, hasn't anyone looked at a subway map or railfanned the line ? Just my 2 cents and I'm not trying to offend anyone, just pointing out the obvious. From reading some of the posts it appears that a lot of the questions were to test reading comprehension but, not having read the test itself, there appears to be some "gimmees" in there too. Good Luck to all of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAveExp5 Posted June 13, 2009 Share #211 Posted June 13, 2009 well you also have to know how to operate a train if you're going to do this job but its all in the training. why cant they cover landmarks and make schoolcar 6 months and 1 week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASCAR Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share #212 Posted June 13, 2009 Man,this thread is on FIRE!!! Shame on you guys for not knowing those landmarks... Those questions are free-throws that you gotta make!Just hope that they don't come back to haunt you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelham Bay Dave Posted June 13, 2009 Share #213 Posted June 13, 2009 Some of the Conductors I spoke with didn't do too hot on the exam as well. They said you really had to read those Reading Comp questions. Well Good Luck to everyone the results should be interesting no one I know claims to have gotten a 100% yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASCAR Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share #214 Posted June 13, 2009 Some of the Conductors I spoke with didn't do too hot on the exam as well. They said you really had to read those Reading Comp questions. Well Good Luck to everyone the results should be interesting no one I know claims to have gotten a 100% yet. Serious??From what I've been reading and hearing outside the forum is the test was pretty easy!I think some people just took it to get the day off or 1 trippers on the PM's... If it was anything like the one I took in 2003 then they're giving jobs away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanfortitude Posted June 13, 2009 Share #215 Posted June 13, 2009 Serious??From what I've been reading and hearing outside the forum is the test was pretty easy!I think some people just took it to get the day off or 1 trippers on the PM's... If it was anything like the one I took in 2003 then they're giving jobs away... IMO anyone who didn't take the time to read and understand the questions the test asked deserved to get the answers wrong. I don't want to sound mean or anything but the point of a test is to TEST you. To see what you know and to challenge your thinking. If you're going to complain about that, then you shouldn't have bothered. I know my test wasn't a perfect score but all in all I feel pretty good about it. I definitely did everything I could do to make sure I did well and that's all I'm gonna ask for. If it's not good enough I'll be here when the test is up for grabs again for sure. This test comes around what...every five years? And I've wanted this job for how long...definitely longer? It's like work for what you want people instead of complaining "why can't they make it easier". Essentially that's what this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYC500 Posted June 13, 2009 Share #216 Posted June 13, 2009 As far as the Hunter College question went, hasn't anyone looked at a subway map or rail-fanned the line? ...Good Luck to all of you. I could understand the Statue of Liberty and Museum of Natural History questions, but having to know which neighborhood Hunter College is in is a bit ridiculous. It was easy for me because I was a student there some years ago. But there are lots of schools around the city of which I would have no idea of their location. I doubt if anyone has ever memorized every station on every line, at least not anyone in their right mind. PS- Thanks for the Good Luck. It's greatly appreciated, especially coming from a TO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopsicleXGirl Posted June 13, 2009 Share #217 Posted June 13, 2009 i think the test was fair. knowing landmarks is part of the job, although more so for conductors. there is no legitimate reason to have those questions protested, same with the federal holidays. although i still can't believe i confused veteran's day with memorial day. GRRRRRR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanfortitude Posted June 13, 2009 Share #218 Posted June 13, 2009 i think the test was fair. knowing landmarks is part of the job, although more so for conductors. there is no legitimate reason to have those questions protested, same with the federal holidays. although i still can't believe i confused veteran's day with memorial day. GRRRRRR. i couldnt remember when Veteran's day was...i just knew it was closer to the end of the year...but Labor day fit the question the best to me anyhow. And you are absolutely right. It amazes me how many people have lived here longer than I have...and don't know where certain things are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYC500 Posted June 13, 2009 Share #219 Posted June 13, 2009 It's like work for what you want people instead of complaining "why can't they make it easier". Essentially that's what this is. There well may have been a couple of questions in which you could not possibly come up with the right answer based on what was given in the passage. If this is in fact the case (we will see when we see the questions again at the protest/review on July 8th), then there are some very legitimate arguments to be made. The people who put the test together aren't perfect. It's quite possible they may have screwed up on a few of the questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYC500 Posted June 13, 2009 Share #220 Posted June 13, 2009 It's like work for what you want people instead of complaining "why can't they make it easier". Essentially that's what this is. Now if we were required to have studied material from an MTA manual or something prior to taking the test (the way it *should* have been, IMO), then my position would be very different. However, we were not asked to read, learn and/or memorize anything prior to taking the test. The test makers probably caved-in to certain groups who complained the other form of test was 'unfair' and so since dumbed these tests down (assuming they used the other, more difficult form of test in the past). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanfortitude Posted June 13, 2009 Share #221 Posted June 13, 2009 There well may have been a couple of questions in which you could not possibly come up with the right answer based on what was given in the passage. If this is in fact the case (we will see when we see the questions again at the protest/review on July 8th), then there are some very legitimate arguments to be made. The people who put the test together aren't perfect. It's quite possible they may have screwed up on a few of the questions. I'm not ruling that out. Not by a long shot. But I'm seeing some people like "how do they expect us to know this" and what not. It was multiple choice...not short essay. Of course the multiple choice is going to appear to have more than one right answer. It's supposed to make you think and resort to process of elimination. Schoolcar is probably going to be 2.5x heftier than this test. I'm just saying if you're going to protest have a viable reason for it. Maybe some of the questions were worded funny and some might have actually had good grounds for protests. My standpoint comes from the questions that were actually pretty straight forward and its obvious that people didn't read them as well as they should have or even over analyzed them. I don't want to sound ignorant. I recognize anything or anyone that has legit arguments. They could have made the test short essay or even lots of math or something. This test could have been a lot harder than it actually was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Posted June 13, 2009 Share #222 Posted June 13, 2009 For those of you complaining about this test, this job isn't for you. These civil service tests are intentionally made extremely easy for obvious reasons. Knowing the city that you want to be employed in is a given, those are free questions and alot you are complaining about them. The only civil service test that used to be difficult was the NYFD test and they had to dumb that one down a few years ago because Rev. Al and his people said it was to hard for minorities to pass which is ridiculous but they dumbed the test down in hopes of having more minorities pass it. The rest of the tests NYPD, NYCT, Sanitation, corrections are incredibly easy that is the purpose of civil service to give anyone a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASCAR Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share #223 Posted June 13, 2009 IMO anyone who didn't take the time to read and understand the questions the test asked deserved to get the answers wrong. I don't want to sound mean or anything but the point of a test is to TEST you. To see what you know and to challenge your thinking. If you're going to complain about that, then you shouldn't have bothered. I know my test wasn't a perfect score but all in all I feel pretty good about it. I definitely did everything I could do to make sure I did well and that's all I'm gonna ask for. If it's not good enough I'll be here when the test is up for grabs again for sure. This test comes around what...every five years? And I've wanted this job for how long...definitely longer? It's like work for what you want people instead of complaining "why can't they make it easier". Essentially that's what this is.If I'm not sure about a question I usually skip it and come back later to spend more time on it.I'm not gonna drive myself crazy for a question I'm not sure of when I can knock out 5 or 6 no-brainers!It's an art to taking these exams...Process of elimination!There's gonna be atleast 2 choices that DON'T make sense.The two best choices left,just work on them!Like you said-take yur time and understand the questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messino Posted June 13, 2009 Share #224 Posted June 13, 2009 for some reason alot of the questions I answered were letter E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopsicleXGirl Posted June 13, 2009 Share #225 Posted June 13, 2009 i couldnt remember when Veteran's day was...i just knew it was closer to the end of the year...but Labor day fit the question the best to me anyhow. And you are absolutely right. It amazes me how many people have lived here longer than I have...and don't know where certain things are. ahhhh you got me! i had no idea what month labor day falls in either! haha... what an american i am, eh????? :tdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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