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traildriver

E Train downgraded

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I've been riding the E since 1989 between Forest Hills and 42nd Street. I really miss the R32's. I know that the 'fans' seem to like the R40 and R42's, but as a passenger, I think the seating in the R32 is much more comfortable.

The countour of the bottom, the height of the backrest and the larger and rounded handles at the seat ends are more comfortable to sit and or lean against.

And is it my imagination or are the seats actually longer (due to smaller doors?), allowing on average one more person to sit?

I notice the R38's that ran on the C had the same seating as the R32's, but I prefer the dark floor and the lighting, as well as the rust free roofs of the all stainless Budd cars.

I haven't had enough time to rate the new cars yet.

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I agree that it's a downgrade in terms of seating since the R32 and R38 had the best seating. In terms of performance, both the R32 and R42 are just simply horrendous. Broken doors, frequent breakdowns, weak A/C, broken heater, and others really plague them to this day. The R38s are the best of the 60 ft trains due to their consistent exceptional performance and the fact that everything worked extremely smoothly. Unfortunately, their roofs killed them since the MTA didn't have any parts and refused to buy more duct tape.

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I agree that it's a downgrade in terms of seating since the R32 and R38 had the best seating. In terms of performance, both the R32 and R42 are just simply horrendous. Broken doors, frequent breakdowns, weak A/C, broken heater, and others really plague them to this day. The R38s are the best of the 60 ft trains due to their consistent exceptional performance and the fact that everything worked extremely smoothly. Unfortunately, their roofs killed them since the MTA didn't have any parts and refused to buy more duct tape.

 

Most of the problems you list are yard maintenance problems. The R38 was well off because there weren't many of those cars and that they were better off at 207 than Jamaica.

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I agree that it's a downgrade in terms of seating since the R32 and R38 had the best seating. In terms of performance, both the R32 and R42 are just simply horrendous. Broken doors, frequent breakdowns, weak A/C, broken heater, and others really plague them to this day. The R38s are the best of the 60 ft trains due to their consistent exceptional performance and the fact that everything worked extremely smoothly. Unfortunately, their roofs killed them since the MTA didn't have any parts and refused to buy more duct tape.

 

In my experiences the Jamaica r42's have pretty decent A/C's and heaters. The R32's were awful on the (E), so I can't complain about the R42's. IMO its an upgrade from 32 to 42.

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I usually stand, so R40/R42 is fine for me.

 

I also like standing in or near the center of the car, you can feel the torque from the train rounding a curve. :cool::eek::tup:

 

- A

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Yes, the R32s and R38s had more narrow doors than the later cars which resulted in a longer bench.

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I totally agree that the (E) suffered a major downgrade when it went from R32s to R42s, but blame its riders for being such big babies. first, they whined about the R32s and their bad air-conditioning (and may i remind you this was when the Phase II R32s were in Jamaica), so (NYCT) gave them the R42s, which had pretty good air-conditioning, but then riders complained how rusted and horrible they are (and i agree with them on that part 100%), so (NYCT) was planning to send all R42s at Jamaica to Pitkin and replace them with the Phase I R32s (which has pretty good air-conditioning as well). if the R42s were able to succefully run on the (C), all remaining R32s would be running on the (E) and only the (E). it would still use a few R160s, but those cars would be going to the (F)(R) and its R46s would be transferring to the (A)(C) to retire the R38s, R40s, and R42s. however, because the (C) needed the R32s back, (E) riders suffered even more with the R42s and now R40Ms (which believe me is better than the R42s, but just look horrible because they run together in service). they should be happy now that (NYCT) decided to put the R160s on their line instead. the (E) is mostly R160s with a few R32/40M/42s, so i am sure its riders are cheering now and i am glad i was able to catch an R32 (E) a few times lately. it is a good thing the R42s are dwindling in service. i had to ride them on the (F) on Friday and thankfully, it was just two stops because otherwise, i would go crazy on the train because they just keep getting worse and worse as the weeks go by. it is unbelievable how the (E) quickly went from sleek and shiny, to rusted and ugly, to an advanced baby. retiring the Phase II R32s was a big mistake by (NYCT) and complaining about them was an even bigger one by (E) riders. they should consider themselves very lucky that they had such good cars like the R32s running on their line for almost 20 years. i have never seen a group of riders like them complaining about what cars their line uses. most people do not care about that. they just want to get to where they want to go in one piece and on time.

Edited by FlushingExpress

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Flushingexpress, your luck on the R42s is definitely as bad as mine on the R32s. I absolutely hate the R32s for breaking down on me so much especially when I had catch express trains back to NJ. The R42s are just a bit better than the R32s though they aren't aesthetically pleasing and feel like they will collapse. At least their doors and A/C function most of the time. They only started breaking down when they entered Jamaica yard, but were fine at both Pitkin and East NY. They are not like the R40s in that they naturally break down even when they are well treated at Pitkin. My only complaint about the R42s are the humps on the seats that create excruciating back pains.

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I totally agree that the (E) suffered a major downgrade when it went from R32s to R42s, but blame its riders for being such big babies. first, they whined about the R32s and their bad air-conditioning (and may i remind you this was when the Phase II R32s were in Jamaica), so (NYCT) gave them the R42s, which had pretty good air-conditioning, but then riders complained how rusted and horrible they are (and i agree with them on that part 100%), so (NYCT) was planning to send all R42s at Jamaica to Pitkin and replace them with the Phase I R32s (which has pretty good air-conditioning as well). if the R42s could have succefully run on the (C), all remaining R32s would be running on the (E) and only the (E). it would still use a few R160s, but those cars would be going on the (F)(R) and its R46s would be transferring to the (A)(C) to retire the R38s, R40s, and R42s. however, because the (C) needed the R32s back, (E) riders suffered even more with the R42s and now R40Ms (which believe me is better than the R40Ms, but just look horrible because they are paired with really bad cars). nowadays, they should be happy that (NYCT) decided to put the R160s on their line instead. now the (E) is mostly R160s with a few R32/40M/42s, so i am sure its riders are cheering now and i am glad i was able to catch an R32 (E) a few times lately. it is a good thing the R42s are dwindling in service. i had to ride them on the (F) on Friday and thankfully, it was just two stops because otherwise, i would go crazy on the train. it is unbelievable how the (E) quickly went from sleek and shiny, to rusted and ugly, to an advanced baby. retiring the Phase II R32s was a big mistake by (NYCT) and complaining about them was an even bigger one from (E) riders. they should consider themselves very lucky that they had such good cars like the R32s running on their line for almost 20 years. i have never seen a group of riders like them complaining about what cars their line uses. most people do not care about that. they just want to get to where they want to go in one piece.

 

 

I Agree, The Main Reason Why they put that 1 R160 Set on the (E) in December was due to the (E) riders complaing more about the R42's and R40M's, Jamaica was also supposed to get atleast 2-3 sets of R40 slants but someone at jamaica turned them down and They didn't need them, The (E) line supt. Wanted the R160 on the (E) as well as the TSS because they knew that (E) riders would thow a fit over R40M's and More R42's,That R160 was supposed to enter service in January so this way ever Crew member was R160 Ready, I Can't wait until the R42's are gone from the (E), They look like Crap, Everytime I see an R42 on the (F) I get upset but If I got to go somewhere I will just ride it to get to Point B, I get angry because They put all of the Crap on the (F), Atleast the (F) riders don't complain and yet they Most of them are from Long Island and other Parts of Queens, The Phase II's on the Other Hand had a whole lot of problems, But They should have put GE Motors from the Retierd Redbirds like they did with the r38's, Like I tell everybody Westinghouse and NYAB Equipment does not mix, The R62A's and the r68's have a different type of NYAB equipment and Plus they have the Westinghouse E-Cam systems as well as the R44's, The R46's is completely GE but with NYAB equipment, Plus The R44's have the same Stone Saftey HVAC unit as well as the Phase II R32's.

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I totally agree that the (E) suffered a major downgrade when it went from R32s to R42s, but blame its riders for being such big babies. first, they whined about the R32s and their bad air-conditioning (and may i remind you this was when the Phase II R32s were in Jamaica), so (NYCT) gave them the R42s, which had pretty good air-conditioning, but then riders complained how rusted and horrible they are (and i agree with them on that part 100%)

 

Haha, although the R32s are what I consider to be the iconic (E) train set, a full train during a summer day would turn into quite the rolling sauna. I'm learning a lot by reading stuff on this forum, but as I said before... I just had a gut feeling that the R32s were a better quality/more comfortable car than the R42s. I don't think I ever really got the pleasure (or displeasure) of riding a R42 during the hot season, I remember them popping up on the line in late '08 and now I haven't seen an R42 the past couple times I've ridden.

 

The R160s on the E are a completely different game altogether. I can't complain at all about the R160s, but just like a M7 vs. a M3 on the LIRR, the new trains kind of loose that classic feel.

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Ridiculous. The R32s were a downgrade from the R46s from 1990-2008. The R42/R40Ms were just another outdated car servicing the E in worst cosmetic shape with visible rust on the interiors, albeit with a somewhat more modern exterior and overall design.

 

Yes, the R32s have more seats than the R40s which have more seats than the R160s but none of them have as many seats as the R44/R46/R68. So, if seats are the priority, then the 75 footers are the ultimate and R160s are a downgrade There's compromises, people. Wider doors mean fewer seats. 75 footers have more seats but increased dwell times. You can't have it all. The seats themselves are more comfortable on the R32 and earlier due to the higher window height.

 

And how many times do we have to get into the E riders whine nonsense? Many of you can't remember how pissed the B riders were when it went from R68s to R40 slants in the 1980s. When you place something older on a line that had something newer, or when you isolate one line to get noticeably older trains while the other lines servicing the same stations run newer trains, passengers don't like it. Especially on your primary express lines.

 

The E finally has mostly train sets that have up-to-date announcements, the capacity for improved signalling which will lead to reducing headways a tick, much clearer computerized announcements, computerized FIND maps, more efficient brakes, more efficient HVAC. While the R160s have less seats, that's been the trend with the 60 footers. The R32 was never perceived as any type of upgrade, has an outmoded shape that looks more like a redbird than anything modern (at least the R40s start pointing towards the more modern look of today's trains) and wasn't smooth or quiet even when it was new. It's missed only by a bunch of cult-like fans that forever want to see the high-ridership E line running very old, noisy trains. (And Queens riders don't mind R46s because, while they are 35 years in service, they aren't noisy)

 

IMO, the high-ridership lines, most of the A division lines and the E, F, should run the most up-to-date equipment, as long as it has been proven to be mechanically sound. There should be no R32/R40/R40Ms on either the E or F lines. The E should have all R160s at this point, the F having the remainder of what's in Jam yard and R46s. The R should not get R160s for awhile.

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The R160s on the E are a completely different game altogether. I can't complain at all about the R160s, but just like a M7 vs. a M3 on the LIRR, the new trains kind of loose that classic feel.

 

The M3s were new at one time. I'm old enough to remember. Now, I think the R160s have a classic feel to them. The original R32, R38, R40, and R44 had blue interiors with white and aqua floors. Not quite the same blue as the R160, but blue/aqua color. The R160s feel like a return to a version of that color. Also, being 60 feet, there's some sense of return to the 1960s. Also the parallel bench seats. From the side, the R160 is evolutionary and is much less a departure than the M1-M3 when it was new from its predecessors. From the front the R143/R160 feels modern due to the black and a departure from the R40M look that the R42 through R68 have. The R40 slant to me was a huge, almost startling departure from the look of its predecessors from the exterior. The R32/R33/R38 were the end of that look and feel. The R44 started the curved sides for the B division trains and was a huge upgrade in interior aesthetics over the previous trains. The R160 feels like it is going back to the functional feel of the R40M/R42 IMO, with today's current updates such as digital signs and automated announcements.

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they should consider themselves very lucky that they had such good cars like the R32s running on their line for almost 20 years. i have never seen a group of riders like them complaining about what cars their line uses. most people do not care about that. they just want to get to where they want to go in one piece.

 

Here's some perspective. When did you start riding the E? If you rode the E in 1985 vs. 1992, you'll have a totally different perspective. Both the E and F from around 1980 to 1990 ran exclusively R46s. Only occasionally would you see an older train on either line. The E was the line at that time that had the cleanest trains, even cleaner than the F. The R46s were totally loved by most Queens riders, riders in lower Manhattan that used the WTC stations and took the E to Lexington, riders that took the E to lower Manhattan from Penn Station. They ran on the E and F and when the N ran to Continental it had mostly R46s. The G and the R had mostly R32s with an occasional R46 or something older than an R32 (and they weren't air-conditioned then).

 

When the F's R46s were rebuilt, it ran some R32s, but they were taken off of the F for the most part. The E started to get the rebuilt R46s but somewhere along the line in 1990, the E ran mostly R32s, then all R32s. So, to a person like me, who has been riding the E since the 1960s, and has seen new trains on the E and F for years, it was a downgrade. A big one. And I never thought the R32s "belonged" on the E, they were replacement trains that stayed too long on the line. To some others, the E was a major line running old noisy trains with squeaky brakes. Some seem to like the R32 for whatever reason, guys like you. And that's fine. But, my problem with you is to constantly state that the E riders are whiners and babies and other such insults. The E riders are mostly Queens riders, many of them took the E when it ran to 179th St. And some also took the F or the E, depending where they were going. When the E was rerouted to Archer, many passenger that took both had to take the E, and then putting them in old trains that became older and noisier and then finally, and let's say for arguments sake due to poor Jamaica yard's maintenance, had broken A/Cs, while the F, R, G, ran mostly newer R46s that were well liked for years that had good a/c. Doesn't the "complaining" make some sense then?

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Really have to say that (E) R46 was best however I don't mind at all that R42 on that line I was on 1 today going to Jamaica and I saw a R32 opposite side. Didn't really care 4 it maybe cuz Im a R38 fan something about those cars R hot(K)<R>

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The R160 feels like it is going back to the functional feel of the R40M/R42 IMO, with today's current updates such as digital signs and automated announcements.

 

If they prove to have longevity, I feel like the R143s/R160s will be the cars that usher the BMT/IND lines into the 21st century. They succeed on pretty much every level from a rider's viewpoint: comfortable, quiet, and quick. As I said, the (E) is like whole new line with the addition of the R160s.

 

I can also see why the R32 is a favorite: The outdated shape and general outdated-ness of everything with that car is kind of a hearken back to the gritty days of old, which I can only remember as a child in the 1980s. They're loud, kinda brutish looking, and interiors have that nicotine-stained lighting and they're quite a sweat box during summer.

 

It amused me seeing people transferring from the Airtrain at JFK to the Supthin blvd. station. Tourists oddly perplexed by the subway map, and then generally surprised by the rolling stock itself. I once had a guy visiting from L.A. tell me, "Wow... this is louder than the plane." in reference to the breaking of his subway virginity, an R32 set on the (E).

 

The R32s were still in decent cosmetic condition though, it was the R42s that made you feel like you were in a different decade.

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they're quite a sweat box during summer.

 

I just hope you know that those were the Phase II R32's, which are retired already. The Phase I R32's have decent A/C.

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I totally agree that the (E) suffered a major downgrade when it went from R32s to R42s, but blame its riders for being such big babies. first, they whined about the R32s and their bad air-conditioning (and may i remind you this was when the Phase II R32s were in Jamaica), so (NYCT) gave them the R42s, which had pretty good air-conditioning, but then riders complained how rusted and horrible they are (and i agree with them on that part 100%), so (NYCT) was planning to send all R42s at Jamaica to Pitkin and replace them with the Phase I R32s (which has pretty good air-conditioning as well). if the R42s were able to succefully run on the (C), all remaining R32s would be running on the (E) and only the (E). it would still use a few R160s, but those cars would be going to the (F)(R) and its R46s would be transferring to the (A)(C) to retire the R38s, R40s, and R42s. however, because the (C) needed the R32s back, (E) riders suffered even more with the R42s and now R40Ms (which believe me is better than the R42s, but just look horrible because they run together in service). they should be happy now that (NYCT) decided to put the R160s on their line instead. the (E) is mostly R160s with a few R32/40M/42s, so i am sure its riders are cheering now and i am glad i was able to catch an R32 (E) a few times lately. it is a good thing the R42s are dwindling in service. i had to ride them on the (F) on Friday and thankfully, it was just two stops because otherwise, i would go crazy on the train because they just keep getting worse and worse as the weeks go by. it is unbelievable how the (E) quickly went from sleek and shiny, to rusted and ugly, to an advanced baby. retiring the Phase II R32s was a big mistake by (NYCT) and complaining about them was an even bigger one by (E) riders. they should consider themselves very lucky that they had such good cars like the R32s running on their line for almost 20 years. i have never seen a group of riders like them complaining about what cars their line uses. most people do not care about that. they just want to get to where they want to go in one piece and on time.

To me, the only thing this post does is bash the R42s (or at least does so in the evidence you use)...

I just hope you know that those were the Phase II R32's, which are retired already. The Phase I R32's have decent A/C.

Both R32s have had issues with the A/C the past summer, but it doesn't really matter anymore...

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The bottomline is that all 60 ft SMEEs need to go ASAP. The MTA had made enough mistakes such as retiring the R38s first and letting the R40s break down constantly. Nevertheless, the R32s themselves have breakdown problems despite their pleasing aesthetics. The C train really needs those R46s.

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I, too, miss the R32 Brightliners on the (E). Sometimes. I would get one of the RFWs at either WTC or Jamaica Center. Hard to believe these cars first started coming on the (E) back in 1977.

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The bottomline is that all 60 ft SMEEs need to go ASAP. The MTA had made enough mistakes such as retiring the R38s first and letting the R40s break down constantly. Nevertheless, the R32s themselves have breakdown problems despite their pleasing aesthetics. The C train really needs those R46s.

The (MTA) didn't let the R40s break down constantly. The R40 had one of the better MDBFs in the fleet (at least in 2007), but also had bad rusting problems. The (MTA) also retired the R38s first because it was a small fleet and also had rusting problems (namely the roof).

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Ridiculous. The R32s were a downgrade from the R46s from 1990-2008. The R42/R40Ms were just another outdated car servicing the E in worst cosmetic shape with visible rust on the interiors, albeit with a somewhat more modern exterior and overall design.

 

Yes, the R32s have more seats than the R40s which have more seats than the R160s but none of them have as many seats as the R44/R46/R68. So, if seats are the priority, then the 75 footers are the ultimate and R160s are a downgrade There's compromises, people. Wider doors mean fewer seats. 75 footers have more seats but increased dwell times. You can't have it all. The seats themselves are more comfortable on the R32 and earlier due to the higher window height.

 

And how many times do we have to get into the E riders whine nonsense? Many of you can't remember how pissed the B riders were when it went from R68s to R40 slants in the 1980s. When you place something older on a line that had something newer, or when you isolate one line to get noticeably older trains while the other lines servicing the same stations run newer trains, passengers don't like it. Especially on your primary express lines.

 

The E finally has mostly train sets that have up-to-date announcements, the capacity for improved signalling which will lead to reducing headways a tick, much clearer computerized announcements, computerized FIND maps, more efficient brakes, more efficient HVAC. While the R160s have less seats, that's been the trend with the 60 footers. The R32 was never perceived as any type of upgrade, has an outmoded shape that looks more like a redbird than anything modern (at least the R40s start pointing towards the more modern look of today's trains) and wasn't smooth or quiet even when it was new. It's missed only by a bunch of cult-like fans that forever want to see the high-ridership E line running very old, noisy trains. (And Queens riders don't mind R46s because, while they are 35 years in service, they aren't noisy)

 

IMO, the high-ridership lines, most of the A division lines and the E, F, should run the most up-to-date equipment, as long as it has been proven to be mechanically sound. There should be no R32/R40/R40Ms on either the E or F lines. The E should have all R160s at this point, the F having the remainder of what's in Jam yard and R46s. The R should not get R160s for awhile.

 

i happen to like the old boxcar like shape. the R40/42 shapes make them look ugly and the oval design of the R44s and beyond make them look fat and chubby. the IRT cars still have that shape. i do not recall the (B) using R68/68As when they debuted in the 1980s. they went on the Brighton Line and that is why residents there love them so much. the (B) used R40s until 1997, when West End residents complained about the noise those cars created, so (NYCT) switched them with the R68As on the Brighton Express (Q6).

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Ever since the tin cans known as the R32 retired E riders have been happier. The R160's are a nicer looking and more comfortable car. Instead of garbled announcements there are clear announcements. Unlike the R32 the AC works in the R160.

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Unlike the R32 the AC works in the R160.

 

The R32's with broken A/C were Phase II R32's. Those are retired already. The r32's that are still in service (Phase I) have decent A/C.

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The R32's with broken A/C were Phase II R32's. Those are retired already. The r32's that are still in service (Phase I) have decent A/C.

 

Had a set on the (R) 2 weeks ago that was a rolling sauna and they keep having door issues

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Had a set on the (R) 2 weeks ago that was a rolling sauna and they keep having door issues

 

Some cars are bad, but you could've moved to the next car. Most of the time, the R32's A/C is working (to my experience anyway)

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